The Holy Spirit is Jesus.

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YourTruthGod

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Mar 9, 2019
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#81
I don’t think we need to. Just as 1 John 2 clearly states and 2 John 1 clearly warns against.

Keep ever before you what you began in (1 John 2) and don’t progress above the head (2 John 1)
Most don't understand any of the scriptures.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
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#82
Continued,

The Bible plainly states that there is only one God the Father, and He said there was no God beside Him, and there was no God formed before Him, and there shall be no God formed after Him.

And the Son shall be called the everlasting Father, and if you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father, and to not ask the Son anything, but only ask the Father, and He will do it, but then Jesus said ask Him, and He will do it.

For Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, God and man, and there is only one God the Father, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus, not a second person of a trinity.

And Jesus is the Spirit for God is a Spirit, and there is only one God, not 3 persons in one God.

1. Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which those are not names, but titles, and it is singular, name, which the name is Jesus.

Which the Father said in the Old Testament that He would reveal a new name to the Jews, and speak to them.

Which Jesus said if you have seen Me then you have seen the Father, and the words that I speak are not My own, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works.

And Jesus said He came in His Father's name.

The prophet Agur asked what is God's name, and what is His Son's name, if you can tell, which means they will share the same name, for Jesus is God manifest in the flesh, so it is the name of both the Father and Son.

The name of the Father is Jesus.

The Bible says that the Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, for there is only one God with no distinction of persons that created all things, came in flesh, and dwells in the saints.

2. Jesus is at the right hand of God.

There is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus, and God's visible relationship to the saints forever.

Jesus said that all power is given unto Him in heaven and earth.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

The Son must reign until His enemies are conquered, then the Son shall submit to God, even the Father, that God may be all in all.

The man Christ Jesus is our Savior, for only a sinless man can approach a holy God to reconcile the world unto God, but no man is sinless so God manifest Himself in flesh, and reconciled the world unto Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God and man in harmony.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand, until His enemies are conquered, and when they are conquered, and the saints are with Jesus, then the Son shall cease exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand, and submit to God that God may be all in all.

Jesus is not sitting on a throne next to the Father, and the only person we will see in heaven is Jesus, for if you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father.

3. Let us make man in our image.

Adam created in the image of God.

Adam made in the similitude of Christ.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

Which is the Word that was at the beginning, and became flesh, which the Word is the plan of God to come in the future in flesh, and reveal Himself.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh, and created Adam in that image, which is an innocent nature in flesh.

So the let us create man in our image has to include the man Christ Jesus for He is part of that image.

So it is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God, God the Father, and the man Christ Jesus, and that is the let us make man in our image.

Which God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future, it is the same as if it happened in the beginning, for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, although they were future events.

So the man Christ Jesus can exist in the beginning before He is born, for God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened.

Which Jesus is the beginning of creation, and the firstborn among the creatures, even though He was not born until 4000 years later.

Let us make man in our image is God, and the man Christ Jesus, for Adam was made in the similitude of Him to come, Christ.

With all that information people will still ignore the truth, for denominations have a hold on many people, and the denominations are getting worse, and people calling themselves Christian, as Scientology, Christian Science, and the such, until the world will only want to accept the Bible according to the new age movement interpretation of it.

It is a shame how many people have made a mockery out of the word of God, but that is in their own mind, and among people, for in reality you can never make a mockery of the word of God, for it will always be the truth and stand.

The Bible plainly states that there is only one God, the Father, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

But they say not so, but there is a trinity, like they say not so among many of God's truths, and believe something else.
You (along with the title of this thread "The Holy Spirit is Jesus") are basically teaching here the destructive heresy of Modalistic Monarchianism which was condemned by the early Church as such!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,988
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#83
the destructive heresy of Modalistic Monarchianism which was condemned by the early Church
just to provide a helpful example, here's a link to an essay by Tertullian on the subject, rebuking a certain man named Praxeas who taught modalism..

Adversus Praxean
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#84
just to provide a helpful example, here's a link to an essay by Tertullian on the subject, rebuking a certain man named Praxeas who taught modalism..

Adversus Praxean
Hahaha... He quotes the very author of the trinity doctrine. I would have you know there are many different churches that totally reject the Nicene Creed, most have spun off the Adventist Movement of 1844 and formed churches, other than the SDA. They keep the commandments of God and Christ and are saved by grace. :)(y):cool:
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,988
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#85
Hahaha... He quotes the very author of the trinity doctrine. I would have you know there are many different churches that totally reject the Nicene Creed, most have spun off the Adventist Movement of 1844 and formed churches, other than the SDA. They keep the commandments of God and Christ and are saved by grace. :)(y):cool:
i mean, if you don't want to read an historical argument from one of the most learned Christian theologians in the last 2 thousand years, made very soon after the apostles, then no one is forcing you.

i just put a link to something very relevant to the thread, that's all. if Tertullian is the 'author of trinity' then wouldn't it be useful to see what the expert says?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,514
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#86
Most don't understand any of the scriptures.
True, because most haven't read any of the Scriptures and have nothing to do with the one true God.

If you meant most Christians, your statement is the height of self-righteous arrogance.
 

Deade

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#87
i mean, if you don't want to read an historical argument from one of the most learned Christian theologians in the last 2 thousand years, made very soon after the apostles, then no one is forcing you.

i just put a link to something very relevant to the thread, that's all. if Tertullian is the 'author of trinity' then wouldn't it be useful to see what the expert says?
Yeah, but it is a whole book used as a guide to set up the Catholic Church. I read some of it.
 
Mar 22, 2019
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#88
That's not Biblical.

The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26). Jesus is the Son of God (Luke 1:35).

Even trinitarian doctrine does not say that Jesus is the Holy Spirit or vice versa. What you speak of is that they are the same, but trinitarian doctrine says that they are distinct persons - not the same, although the same God.

What you speak of is modalism where one God is expressed in different forms but is not distinct. It is considered a heresy.

QUOTE:
Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity. Modalism states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three modes or forms.
Source: https://carm.org/modalism
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
6,439
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#89
Who here agrees to this?
Jesus the Father and the Holy Spirit are One..
Jesus is the Word..

1 John 5: KJV
"{7} For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,838
582
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#91
You are on target, pay no attention to those over-simplifying trinity proponents. When we get to be with God, we will have the dark glass removed and will be able to understand it all.

1 Cor. 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." :cool:
Can any of us explain our relationship with GOD excluding and apart from JESUS?

It is only through JESUS that we have Accces to THE FATHER by ONE SPIRIT
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#92
Can any of us explain our relationship with GOD excluding and apart from JESUS?

It is only through JESUS that we have Acces to THE FATHER by ONE SPIRIT
Amen! John 14:6 - Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship) and not merely theoretical knowledge. :)
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,838
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#93
Amen! John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship) and not merely theoretical knowledge. :)
1 John 2:23 - 25
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#95
1 John 2:23 - Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life. (y)
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
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#96
Robert Bowman does not know Jesus.
If he did, why would he believe number 8?
By point nr. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, <- He points towards Jesus being the Christ, and point number 8 he is confused,
and denies that Jesus is the Christ.

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not distinct persons.

The Father is the Holy Spirit, His name is Jesus, and He is the Christ.

If you deny this, you deny that Jesus is the Christ.



Point 1 - That is true. One God. He is Holy, and He is a Spirit.
Verse: God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:24)

Point 2 - It is the Lord GOD that is revealed.
Verse: And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (John 20:28)

Point 3. Yes. He is Holy, and He is a Spirit.
Verse: There is none holy like the LORD; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God. (1 Samuel 2:2)

Point 4. God is not as man. He is a Holy Spirit, but He did take on flesh.
This means that He is the Son of God.

Point 5. Yes, The Father is the Holy Spirit, His name is Jesus, and He is the Christ revealed unto us. He is God in flesh.
Verse: Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell? (Proverbs 30:4)

Point 6. Jesus is the name of the Father, and He is a Holy Spirit. (Clear by now.) He took on flesh. Jesus is the Christ.
Verse: Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? (John 14:9)

Point 7. The Holy Spirit is Jesus, that is correct. He is God, and God is a Spirit.
He became flesh, that's how He was seen among us.

Point 8. This is false.

Let me explain, - God is a Father - and He is a Holy Spirit. He has a name, and this name is Jesus. He became man,
and is ONE, - the God that could not be seen, took on flesh, and GOD became as man.
Jesus is the Christ.

Proof:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(1 John 5:7)

Notice what it says? These three are one.

The Holy Ghost is the Father, and He has the Word of life.
He IS the word of life.
He is Holy.
He is a Spirit.
His name is Jesus.
He is the Christ.
I know Bowman personally and he is very much a Christian.

As for each point, go to the original link he gives the scriptures he bases his historical understanding on. In fact, post the statement of Faith of your church. Then go to Early Church Fathers Primary Sources only online to try to find your combination of your doctrines.
Odds are they are not represented by those whom the Apostles taught. If you do not give links to primary sources where context can be checked, I am not accepting it as true, just your misguided opinion.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#97
1. The following dissertation concerning the Trinity, as the reader ought to be informed, has been written in order to guard against the sophistries of those who disdain to begin with faith, and are deceived by a crude and perverse love of reason. Now one class of such men endeavor to transfer to things incorporeal and spiritual the ideas they have formed, whether through experience of the bodily senses, or by natural human wit and diligent quickness, or by the aid of art, from things corporeal; so as to seek to measure and conceive of the former by the latter. Others, again, frame whatever sentiments they may have concerning God according to the nature or affections of the human mind; and through this error they govern their discourse, in disputing concerning God, by distorted and fallacious rules. While yet a third class strive indeed to transcend the whole creation, which doubtless is changeable, in order to raise their thought to the unchangeable substance, which is God; but being weighed down by the burden of mortality, while they both would seem to know what they do not, and cannot know what they would, preclude themselves from entering the very path of understanding, by an over-bold affirmation of their own presumptuous judgments; choosing rather not to correct their own opinion when it is perverse, than to change that which they have once defended.http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/130101.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0511.htm

A fragment from On the Trinity
Please help support the mission of New Advent and get the full contents of this website as an instant download. Includes the Catholic Encyclopedia, Church Fathers, Summa, Bible and more — all for only $19.99...

Gregory Thaumaturgus, Bishop of Neo-Caesareia in Pontus, near successor of the apostles, in his discourse on the Trinity, speaks thus:—

I see in all three essentials — substance, genus, name. We speak of man, servant, curator (curatorem) — man, by reason of substance; servant, by reason of genus or condition; curator, by reason of denomination. We speak also of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: these, however, are not names which have only supervened at some after period, but they are subsistences. Again, the denomination of man is not in actual fact a denomination, but a substance common to men, and is the denomination proper to all men. Moreover, names are such as these — Adam, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob: these, I say, are names. But the Divine Persons are names indeed: and the names are still the persons; and the persons then signify that which is and subsists — which is the essence of God. The name also of the nature signifies subsistence; as if we should speak of the man. All (the persons) are one nature, one essence, one will, and are called the Holy Trinity; and these also are haines subsistent, one nature in three persons, and one genus. But the person of the Son is composite in its oneness (unita est), being one made up of two, that is, of divinity and humanity together, which two constitute one. Yet the divinity does not consequently receive any increment, but the Trinity remains as it was. Nor does anything new befall the persons even or the names, but these are eternal and without time. No one, however, was sufficient to know these until the Son being made flesh manifested them, saying: Father, I have manifested Your name to men; glorify me also, that they may know me as Your Son. John 17:6 And on the mount the Father spoke, and said, This is my beloved Son. Matthew 3:17 And the same sent His Holy Spirit at the Jordan. And thus it was declared to us that there is an Eternal Trinity in equal honour. Besides, the generation of the Son by the Father is incomprehensible and ineffable; and because it is spiritual, its investigation becomes impracticable: for a spiritual object can neither be understood nor traced by a corporeal object, for that is far removed from human nature. We men know indeed the generation proper to us, as also that of other objects; but a spiritual matter is above human condition, neither can it in any manner be understood by the minds of men. Spiritual substance can neither perish nor be dissolved; ours, however, as is easy to understand, perishes and is dissolved. How, indeed, could it be possible for man, who is limited on six sides — by east, west, south, north, deep, and sky — understand a matter which is above the skies, which is beneath the deeps, which stretches beyond the north and south, and which is present in every place, and fills all vacuity? But if, indeed, we are able to scrutinize spiritual substance, its excellence truly would be undone. Let us consider what is done in our body; and, furthermore, let us see whether it is in our power to ascertain in what manner thoughts are born of the heart, and words of the tongue, and the like. Now, if we can by no means apprehend things that are done in ourselves, how could it ever be that we should understand the mystery of the uncreated Creator, which goes beyond every mind? Assuredly, if this mystery were one that could be penetrated by man, the inspired John would by no means have affirmed this: No man has seen God at any time. John 1:18 He then, whom no man has seen at any time — whom can we reckon Him to resemble, so that thereby we should understand His generation? And we, indeed, without ambiguity apprehend that our soul dwells in us in union with the body; but still, who has ever seen his own soul? Who has been able to discern its conjunction with his body? This one thing is all we know certainly, that there is a soul within us conjoined with the body. Thus, then, we reason and believe that the Word is begotten by the Father, albeit we neither possess nor know the clear rationale of the fact. The Word Himself is before every creature — eternal from the Eternal, like spring from spring, and light from light. The vocable Word, indeed, belongs to those three genera of words which are named in Scripture, and which are not substantial — namely, the word conceived, the word uttered, and the word articulated. The word conceived, certainly, is not substantial. The word uttered, again, is that voice which the prophets hear from God, or the prophetic speech itself; and even this is not substantial. And, lastly, the word articulated is the speech of man formed forth in air (aere efformatus), composed of terms, which also is not substantial. But the Word of God is substantial, endowed with an exalted and enduring nature, and is eternal with Himself, and is inseparable from Him, and can never fall away, but shall remain in an everlasting union. This Word created heaven and earth, and in Him were all things made. He is the arm and the power of God, never to be separated from the Father, in virtue of an indivisible nature, and, together with the Father, He is without beginning. This Word took our substance of the Virgin Mary; and in so far as He is spiritual indeed, He is indivisibly equal with the Father; but in so far as He is corporeal, He is in like manner inseparably equal with us. And, again, in so far as He is spiritual, He supplies in the same equality (aequiparat) the Holy Spirit, inseparably and without limit. Neither were there two natures, but only one nature of the Holy Trinity before the incarnation of the Word, the Son; and the nature of the Trinity remained one also after the incarnation of the Son. But if any one, moreover, believes that any increment has been given to the Trinity by reason of the assumption of humanity by the Word, he is an alien from us, and from the ministry of the Catholic and Apostolic Church. This is the perfect, holy, Apostolic faith of the holy God. Praise to the Holy Trinity for ever through the ages of the ages. Amen.http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0606.htm
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#98
He had been raised again by the Father and taken back to heaven, to be sitting at the right hand of the Father, and that He will come to judge the quick and the dead; who sent also from heaven from the Father, according to His own promise, the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father, and in the Son, and in the Holy Ghost. That this rule of faith has come down to us from the beginning of the gospel, even before any of the older heretics, much more before Praxeas, a pretender of yesterday, will be apparent both from the lateness of date which marks all heresies, and also from the absolutely novel character of our new-fangled Praxeas. In this principle also we must henceforth find a presumption of equal force against all heresies whatsoever — that whatever is first is true, whereas that is spurious which is later in date. But keeping this prescriptive rule inviolate, still some opportunity must be given for reviewing (the statements of heretics), with a view to the instruction and protection of various persons; were it only that it may not seem that each perversion of the truth is condemned without examination, and simply prejudged; especially in the case of this heresy, which supposes itself to possess the pure truth, in thinking that one cannot believe in One Only God in any other way than by saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are the very selfsame Person. As if in this way also one were not All, in that All are of One, by unity (that is) of substance; while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded, which distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons— the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect; yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. How they are susceptible of number without division, will be shown as our treatise proceeds.http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0317.htm

http://www.newadvent.org/utility/se...8:ifmbhlr-8x0&q=Trinity&sa=Search&cof=FORID:9

Some leds from here http://www.staycatholic.com/ecf_the_trinity.htm Provide the links to new advent primary sources like I did for reviewing, checking context.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#99
Please refer to primary text here by post number like 98 above. And, post your comments in the separate post.
Thanks, daniel
 

TheLearner

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The best way to define "person" as applied to the triune Godhead is to state that the Father is NOT the Son, and the Son is NOT the Father or the Holy Spirit. And because they are three distinct divine Persons, Jesus made this very clear statement in Scripture which is indisputably genuine (Mt 28:19): Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

"The name" is singular for God -- in Hebrew "Ha Shem" (as used by devout Jews). But the Father is distinct from the Son, and the Son is distinct from the Holy Ghost. This is also "the Mystery of God", not to be explained through human reasoning, but to be accepted by faith.
In fact, the earliest church manual called the Didache agrees with you:

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0714.htm