The Holy Spirit through Paul said that enemies of the Cross are declared in Philippians 3:18-19 to have their end in destruction.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,638
5,618
113
#21
You must be baptized into Christ to come to the Father. Do you believe this?
Yes. The Bible says that those who believe are baptized WITH the Holy Spirit by Christ. At the same time the Holy Spirit baptizes believer INTO Christ. And the Holy Spirit then regenerates sinners, and makes the children of God. That is when and how they come to the Father as His children.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:13)
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
1,948
1,177
113
#23
For that we must know that suffering at the hands of evil people is God's Grace.

there is this though.............................:cautious:
 

lenna

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2020
1,948
1,177
113
#24
he's right, @lenna

if you want your own multi-million-dollar publishing deals, you're gonna need to cut back on the pragmatic analysis and maximize your use of catchphrases.



I'm zoning out........
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,856
503
113
#31
Once all hope of the flesh dies then can you deny yourself and take up your cross daily. Once the path of faith in Jesus Christ and Him Crucified is abandoned, the judgement of the Child of God becomes faulty; an old sin is an easy sin.

“DISCIPLESHIP - Luke 14:25-27

25 And there went great multitudes with Him (proclaims Him having left the home of this Pharisee, and now continuing His journey toward Jerusalem): and He turned, and said unto them (He was anxious now, at the end, clearly to make it known to all these multitudes what serving Him really signified),

26 If any man come to Me (no exceptions), and hate (prefer) not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also (no affection, however strong, must be permitted to compete with or displace Christ), he cannot be My Disciple (once again, no exceptions!).

27 And whosoever does not bear his Cross (this doesn’t speak of suffering as most think, but rather ever making the Cross of Christ the Object of our Faith; we are Saved and we are victorious not by suffering, although that sometimes will happen, or any other similar things, but rather by our Faith, but always with the Cross of Christ as the Object of that Faith), and come after Me (one can follow Christ only by Faith in what He has done for us at the Cross; He recognizes nothing else), cannot be My Disciple (the statement is emphatic!; if it’s not Faith in the Cross of Christ, then it’s faith that God will not recognize, which means that such people are refused [I Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Rom. 6:3-14; 8:1-2, 11, 13; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15]).

DISCIPLESHIP - Luke 9:23-24

And he said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one's own willpower, self-will, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on a daily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone [Rom. 6:3-5, 11, 14; 8:1-2, 11; 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 21, 23; 2:2; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 3:14-15]). Luke 9:23

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it (try to live one's life outside of Christ and the Cross): but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it (when we place our Faith entirely in Christ and the Cross, looking exclusively to Him, we have just found "more Abundant Life" [John 10:10]). Luke 9:24

As far as trying to do something as it concerns taking up the Cross daily, we are to do nothing. In fact, it was already done at Calvary some two thousand years ago. On a daily basis, we should reinforce our Faith in Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross (Rom. 6:3-5; 8:2, Gal. 2:20-21, Col. 2:10-15). This is the "Truth" which we must learn, act upon, and continue to act upon, which guarantees the help of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus also said:

John 6:53 - "Except you eat the Flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His Blood (i.e., the Cross, i.e., The Finished Work), you have no life in you," (presents the demand that caused "many of His Disciples to go back, and walk no more with Him" [John 6:66]. It does the same presently! This Verse tells us the degree of believing that is required; it refers to the Cross being the total Object of one's belief; failing that, there is no Life in you.)

John 6:66 - From that time many of His Disciples went back, and walk no more with Him.

(Access granted - Mark 15:38, Hebrews 9:3) - The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

1. Jesus Christ is the source of all blessings.
2. The Cross is the means by which all blessings are given.
3. The object of our faith must be Christ and the Cross.
4. That being done, the Holy Spirit will greatly help us.


JSM

The Cross of Christ is synonymous with the same meaning as the Lamb of God, the Blood of Jesus, the Finished Work, Crucified with Christ, in Christ, baptized into Jesus Christ, baptized into His Death, Jesus Christ and Him Crucified, Calvary, planted together in the likeness of His Death, Atonement, and Sacrifice.
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,856
503
113
#32
Any person whose Faith is not in the Finished Work at Calvary Cross, i.e., "The Perfect Sacrifice (The Lamb of God)," i.e., "The Blood of Jesus." Jesus said, “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Rev. 3:1, Matthew 7:21-23

When we say place your Faith in Christ, they understand that. However, when you say place your Faith in Christ and the Cross (ONLY), that's when the problem comes in. The nonbelievers anointed by Satan says we must go beyond the Cross and bring in other biblical Christian disciplines and religious activities that appeal to the flesh. This is called Spiritual Adultery (lukewarm); The Believer who believes this fable, Christ shall profit them nothing. Galatians 5:2

If you go beyond the Cross or do not place your Faith and Trust in the Cross of Christ where the victory was won, you walk away from God and enter death! Romans 8:2
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
951
212
43
#33
ooh, ok. It's understanding God's Grace from the perspective of the cross. Like the first Christians saw persecution as an opportunity to forgive knowing that forgiving one's persecutors conformed their lives to Christ. They got closer to Jesus. So God's Grace for them was suffering at the hands of evil men. Jesus also went through it. He said when thinking about His final hour : what am I to say? Take this away from me? No God forbid for this is why I am here." I paraphrase. God's Grace even troubled God.
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,856
503
113
#34
Romans 6 - Sanctification

“1 What shall we say then? (This is meant to direct attention to Rom. 5:20.) Shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound? (Just because Grace is greater than sin doesn’t mean that the Believer has a license to sin.)

2 God forbid (presents Paul’s answer to the question, “Away with the thought, let not such a thing occur”). How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein? (This portrays what the Believer is now in Christ.)

3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13])were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

5 For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His Death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection (we can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the Means by which all of by which all of this is done):

“6 Knowing this, that our old man is Crucified with Him (all that we were before conversion), that the body of sin might be destroyed (the power of the sin nature made ineffective), that henceforth we should not serve sin (the guilt of sin is removed at conversion, because the sin nature no longer rules within our hearts and lives).

7 For he who is dead (He was our Substitute, and in the Mind of God, we died with Him upon Believing Faith) is freed from sin (set free from the bondage of the sin nature).

8 Now if we be dead with Christ (once again pertains to the Cross, and our being Baptized into His Death), we believe that we shall also live with Him (have Resurrection Life, which is more Abundant Life [Jn. 10:10]):

JSM
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
15,137
8,215
113
#35
Romans 6 - Sanctification

“1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, who are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His Death? 4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His Death, we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is Crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he who is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ , we believe that we shall also live with Him."
Fixed it for you.
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,856
503
113
#37
Romans 6 - Sanctification

“1 What shall we say then? (This is meant to direct attention to Rom. 5:20.) Shall we continue in sin, that Grace may abound? (Just because Grace is greater than sin doesn’t mean that the Believer has a license to sin.)

2 God forbid (presents Paul’s answer to the question, “Away with the thought, let not such a thing occur”). How shall we, who are dead to sin (dead to the sin nature), live any longer therein? (This portrays what the Believer is now in Christ.)

3 Know you not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ (plainly says that this Baptism is into Christ and not water [I Cor. 1:17; 12:13; Gal. 3:27; Eph. 4:5; Col. 2:11-13])were baptized into His Death? (When Christ died on the Cross, in the Mind of God, we died with Him; in other words, He became our Substitute, and our identification with Him in His Death gives us all the benefits for which He died; the idea is that He did it all for us!)

4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death (not only did we die with Him, but we were buried with Him as well, which means that all the sin and transgression of the past were buried; when they put Him in the Tomb, they put all of our sins into that Tomb as well): that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the Glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life (we died with Him, we were buried with Him, and His Resurrection was our Resurrection to a “Newness of Life”).

5 For if we have been planted together (with Christ) in the likeness of His Death (Paul proclaims the Cross as the instrument through which all Blessings come; consequently, the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith, which gives the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives), we shall be also in the likeness of His Resurrection (we can have the “likeness of His Resurrection,” i.e., “live this Resurrection Life,” only as long as we understand the “likeness of His Death,” which refers to the Cross as the Means by which all of by which all of this is done):

“6 Knowing this, that our old man is Crucified with Him (all that we were before conversion), that the body of sin might be destroyed (the power of the sin nature made ineffective), that henceforth we should not serve sin (the guilt of sin is removed at conversion, because the sin nature no longer rules within our hearts and lives).

7 For he who is dead (He was our Substitute, and in the Mind of God, we died with Him upon Believing Faith) is freed from sin (set free from the bondage of the sin nature).

8 Now if we be dead with Christ (once again pertains to the Cross, and our being Baptized into His Death), we believe that we shall also live with Him (have Resurrection Life, which is more Abundant Life [Jn. 10:10]):

JSM
Romans 6 - Sanctification

“9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more (means that His Work was a Finished Work, and will require nothing else); death has no more dominion over Him (because all sin has been Atoned; inasmuch as Christ is our Substitute, if death has no more dominion over Him, it has no more dominion over us; this means that the power of the sin nature is broken).

10 For in that He died, He died unto sin (the sin nature) once (actually means, “He died unto the sin nature, once, for all”): but in that He lives (the Resurrection), He lives unto God (refers to the fact that all life comes from God, and that we receive that life by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Finished Work).

11 Likewise reckon (account) you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto (the) sin (while the sin nature is not dead, we are dead unto the sin nature by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Sacrifice, but only as long as our Faith continues in the Cross), but alive unto God (living the Resurrection Life) through Jesus Christ our Lord (refers to what He did at the Cross, which is the means of this Resurrection Life).

12 Let not sin (the sin nature) therefore reign (rule) in your mortal body (showing that the sin nature can once again rule in the heart and life of the Believer, if the Believer doesn’t constantly look to Christ and the Cross; the “mortal body” is neutral, which means it can be used for Righteousness or unrighteousness), that you should obey it in the lusts thereof (ungodly lusts are carried out through the mortal body, if Faith is not maintained in the Cross [I Cor. 1:17-18]).

13 Neither yield you your members (of your mortal body) as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (we are to yield ourselves to Christ and the Cross; that alone guarantees Victory over the sin nature), as those who are alive from the dead (we have been raised with Christ in “Newness of Life”), and your members as instruments of Righteousness unto God (this can be done only by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Finished Work, and Faith which continues in that Finished Work from day-to-day [Lk. 9:23-24]).

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you (the sin nature will not have dominion over us if we as Believers continue to exercise Faith in the Cross of Christ; otherwise, the sin nature most definitely will have dominion over the Believer): for you are not under the Law (means that if we try to live this life by any type of law, no matter how good that law might be in its own right, we will conclude by the sin nature having dominion over us), but under Grace (the Grace of God flows to the Believer on an unending basis only as long as the Believer exercises Faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross; Grace is merely the Goodness of God exercised by and through the Holy Spirit, and given to undeserving Saints).

15 What then? (This presents Paul going back to the first question he asked in this Chapter.) shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under Grace? (If we think such a thing, then we’re completely misunderstanding Grace. The Grace of God gives us the liberty to live a Holy life, which we do through Faith in Christ and the Cross, and not license to sin as some think.) God forbid (every true Believer hates sin; so the idea of living under its dominion is abhorrent to say the least!).

16 Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey (the Believer is either a slave to Christ, for that’s what the word “servant” means, or else a slave to sin, which he will be if he doesn’t keep his Faith in Christ and the Cross); whether of sin unto death (once again allow us to state the fact that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any method other than Faith in the Finished Work of Christ, the Believer will fail, no matter how hard he otherwise tries), or of obedience unto Righteousness? (The Believer is required to obey the Word of the Lord. He cannot do that within his own strength, but only by understanding that he receives all things through what Christ did at the Cross and his continued Faith in that Finished Work, even on a daily basis. Then the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can make us what we ought to be, can accomplish His work within our lives.)


JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,856
503
113
#38
Romans 6 - Sanctification

“9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dies no more (means that His Work was a Finished Work, and will require nothing else); death has no more dominion over Him (because all sin has been Atoned; inasmuch as Christ is our Substitute, if death has no more dominion over Him, it has no more dominion over us; this means that the power of the sin nature is broken).

10 For in that He died, He died unto sin (the sin nature) once (actually means, “He died unto the sin nature, once, for all”): but in that He lives (the Resurrection), He lives unto God (refers to the fact that all life comes from God, and that we receive that life by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Finished Work).

11 Likewise reckon (account) you also yourselves to be dead indeed unto (the) sin (while the sin nature is not dead, we are dead unto the sin nature by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Sacrifice, but only as long as our Faith continues in the Cross), but alive unto God (living the Resurrection Life) through Jesus Christ our Lord (refers to what He did at the Cross, which is the means of this Resurrection Life).

12 Let not sin (the sin nature) therefore reign (rule) in your mortal body (showing that the sin nature can once again rule in the heart and life of the Believer, if the Believer doesn’t constantly look to Christ and the Cross; the “mortal body” is neutral, which means it can be used for Righteousness or unrighteousness), that you should obey it in the lusts thereof (ungodly lusts are carried out through the mortal body, if Faith is not maintained in the Cross [I Cor. 1:17-18]).

13 Neither yield you your members (of your mortal body) as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (we are to yield ourselves to Christ and the Cross; that alone guarantees Victory over the sin nature), as those who are alive from the dead (we have been raised with Christ in “Newness of Life”), and your members as instruments of Righteousness unto God (this can be done only by virtue of the Cross and our Faith in that Finished Work, and Faith which continues in that Finished Work from day-to-day [Lk. 9:23-24]).

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you (the sin nature will not have dominion over us if we as Believers continue to exercise Faith in the Cross of Christ; otherwise, the sin nature most definitely will have dominion over the Believer): for you are not under the Law (means that if we try to live this life by any type of law, no matter how good that law might be in its own right, we will conclude by the sin nature having dominion over us), but under Grace (the Grace of God flows to the Believer on an unending basis only as long as the Believer exercises Faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross; Grace is merely the Goodness of God exercised by and through the Holy Spirit, and given to undeserving Saints).

15 What then? (This presents Paul going back to the first question he asked in this Chapter.) shall we sin, because we are not under the Law, but under Grace? (If we think such a thing, then we’re completely misunderstanding Grace. The Grace of God gives us the liberty to live a Holy life, which we do through Faith in Christ and the Cross, and not license to sin as some think.) God forbid (every true Believer hates sin; so the idea of living under its dominion is abhorrent to say the least!).

16 Know you not, that to whom you yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants you are to whom you obey (the Believer is either a slave to Christ, for that’s what the word “servant” means, or else a slave to sin, which he will be if he doesn’t keep his Faith in Christ and the Cross); whether of sin unto death (once again allow us to state the fact that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any method other than Faith in the Finished Work of Christ, the Believer will fail, no matter how hard he otherwise tries), or of obedience unto Righteousness? (The Believer is required to obey the Word of the Lord. He cannot do that within his own strength, but only by understanding that he receives all things through what Christ did at the Cross and his continued Faith in that Finished Work, even on a daily basis. Then the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can make us what we ought to be, can accomplish His work within our lives.)

JSM
Romans 6 - Sanctification

“17 But God be thanked, that you were the servants of sin (slaves to the sin nature, what we were before we were Saved), but you have obeyed from the heart that form of Doctrine (Jesus Christ and Him Crucified; understanding that all things come to the Believer from God by the means of the Cross) which was delivered you (the Lord gave this “form of Doctrine” to Paul, and he gave it to us in his Epistles).

18 Being then made free from sin (being made free from the sin nature; it has no more power over the Believer, but only as we continue to look to the Cross), you became the servants of Righteousness (whereas you were formerly a slave to the sin nature, you are now a slave to Righteousness; if Faith is maintained in the Cross, there is a constant pull of the Believer toward Righteousness).

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh (“the manner of men” pertains to the Fall, which has made the flesh weak; this speaks of our own personal strength and ability): for as you have yielded your members servants to uncleanness (which the Believer will do, if the object of his Faith is anything but the Cross) and to iniquity unto iniquity (without constant Faith in the Cross, the Believer’s situation regarding sin will get worse and worse); even so now yield your members servants to Righteousness unto Holiness (which, as repeatedly stated, can only be done through constant Faith in the Cross; understanding that it is by and through the Cross that we receive all things, and that the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can develop Righteousness and Holiness in our lives, works exclusively through the Cross).

20 For when you were the servants of sin (slaves to sin), you were free from Righteousness (speaking of our lives before conversion to Christ).

21 What fruit had you then in those things whereof you are now ashamed? (This means that absolutely nothing of any value can come out of the sinful experience. It is impossible for there to be any good fruit.) for the end of those things is death (if the Believer refuses to look to the Cross, but rather looks to something else regarding his Sanctification, domination by the sin nature is going to be the result, and spiritual death will be the conclusion; the Cross is the only answer for sin!).

22 But now (since coming to Christ) being made free from sin (set free from the sin nature), and become servants (slaves) to God (but this yoke is a light yoke [Mat. 11:28-30]), you have your fruit unto Holiness (which the Holy Spirit will bring about, providing the Cross is ever the Object of our Faith), and the end Everlasting Life (so the Believer has the choice of “death,” which is the end result of trusting something other than Christ and the Cross, or “Everlasting Life,” which is the result of trusting Christ and the Cross).

23 For the wages of sin is death (speaks of spiritual death, which is separation from God); but the Gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord (as stated, all of this, without exception, comes to us by the means of what Christ did at the Cross, which demands that the Cross ever be the Object of our Faith, thus giving the Holy Spirit latitude to work within our lives and bring forth His Fruit).

JSM
 
Sep 3, 2016
5,856
503
113
#39
Chew on Romans 6! Meditate on Romans 6 daily!
Romans 7 & 8 coming soon.
 

Benadam

Active member
Aug 14, 2019
951
212
43
#40
(once again allow us to state the fact that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any method other than Faith in the Finished Work of Christ, the Believer will fail, no matter how hard he otherwise tries),
For a believer in Christ, how does faith in the 'finished work of Christ' equate to a method of living for God? I don't remember Paul teaching that.