The Holy Spirit through Paul said that enemies of the Cross are declared in Philippians 3:18-19 to have their end in destruction.

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L

lenna

Guest
#61
Philipians is describing it. This is Christ sharing His life. A participation as a member of His Body. Here are a couple

I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death,

Colossians
I am now rejoicing in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I am completing what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church.

1 Peter
But rejoice insofar as you are sharing Christ’s sufferings, so that you may also be glad and shout for joy when his glory is revealed.
yes I am aware of those scriptures

but I do not follow your interpretation or perhaps do not understand just what you mean
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#62
The Holy Spirit through Paul said that enemies of the Cross are declared in Philippians 3:18-19 to have their end in destruction.

Why would the Holy Spirit tell the Apostle Paul to write such a thing as this?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#63
The Holy Spirit through Paul said that enemies of the Cross are declared in Philippians 3:18-19 to have their end in destruction.

Why would the Holy Spirit tell the Apostle Paul to write such a thing as this?
Paul is talking about unbelievers. I'm sure Swaggart misinterprets this to segregate Christians.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,655
13,125
113
#64
The Holy Spirit through Paul said that enemies of the Cross are declared in Philippians 3:18-19 to have their end in destruction.

Why would the Holy Spirit tell the Apostle Paul to write such a thing as this?

because he first wrote verses 2-4.
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#65
yes I am aware of those scriptures

but I do not follow your interpretation or perhaps do not understand just what you mean
Well sister, I guess you had to be there....lol
Actually the other poster messageoftheCross has some of it I think but it doesn't seem to be something ever experienced, It's something you have to take on faith as really happening. The words I use come out of 'union' with Christ experienced, a 'participation' with, stuff like that. Thank you for asking Lenna,
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#66
“ROMANS CHAPTER 7

(A.D. 60)

THE LAW AND SIN
1 Know ye not, Brethren (Paul is speaking to Believers), (for I speak to them who know the Law,) (he is speaking of the Law of Moses, but it could refer to any type of religious Law) how that the Law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? (The Law has dominion as long as he tries to live by Law. Regrettably, not understanding the Cross regarding Sanctification, virtually the entirety of the Church is presently trying to live for God by means of the Law. Let the Believer understand that there are only two places he can be, Grace or Law. If he doesn’t understand the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, which is the only means of victory, he will automatically be under Law, which guarantees failure.)


2 For the woman which has an husband is bound by the Law to her husband so long as he lives (presents Paul using the analogy of the marriage bond); but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the Law of her husband (meaning that she is free to marry again).

3 So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress (in effect, the woman now has two husbands, at least in the Eyes of God; following this analogy, the Holy Spirit through Paul will give us a great truth; many Christians are living a life of spiritual adultery; they are married to Christ, but they are, in effect, serving another husband, “the Law”; it is quite an analogy!): but if her husband be dead (the Law is dead by virtue of Christ having fulfilled the Law in every respect), she is free from that Law (if the husband dies, the woman is free to marry and serve another; the Law of Moses, being satisfied in Christ, is now dead to the Believer and the Believer is free to serve Christ without the Law having any part or parcel in his life or living); so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man (presents the Believer as now married to Christ, and no longer under obligation to the Law).

4 Wherefore, my Brethren, you also are become dead to the Law (the Law is not dead per se, but we are dead to the Law because we are dead to its effects; this means that we are not to try to live for God by means of “Law,” whether the Law of Moses, or religious Laws made up by other men or of ourselves; we are to be dead to all religious Law) by the Body of Christ (this refers to the Crucifixion of Christ, which satisfied the demands of the broken Law, which we could not satisfy; but Christ did it for us; having fulfilled the Mosaic Law in every respect, the Christian is not obligated to Law in any fashion, only to Christ and what He did at the Cross); that you should be married to another (speaking of Christ), even to Him Who is raised from the dead (we are raised with Him in Newness of Life, and we should ever understand that Christ has met, does meet, and shall meet our every need; we look to Him exclusively, referring to what He did for us at the Cross), that we should bring forth fruit unto God (proper fruit can only be brought forth by the Believer constantly looking to the Cross; in fact, Christ must never be separated from the Work of the Cross; to do so is to produce “another Jesus” [II Cor. 11:4]).

5 For when we were in the flesh (can refer to the unsaved state or to the Believer who is attempting to overcome the powers of sin by his own efforts, i.e., “the flesh”), the motions of sins (denotes being under the power of the sin nature, and refers to the “passions of the sin nature”), which were by the Law (the effect of the Law is to reveal sin, which Law is designed to do whether it’s the Law of God or Laws made up of ourselves; that doesn’t mean it’s evil, for it isn’t; it just means that there is no victory in the Law, only the Revelation of sin and its penalty), did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death (when the Believer attempts to live for the Lord by means of Law, which regrettably most of the modern Church does, the end result is going to be sin and failure; in fact, it can be no other way; let us say it again! if the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross, as it refers to Sanctification, then the Believer is going to try to live for God by means of Law; the sadness is that most of the modern Church thinks it is under Grace, when in reality it is living under Law because of not understanding the Cross).

6 But now we are delivered from the Law (delivered from its just demands, meaning that Christ has paid its penalty), that being dead (dead to the Law by virtue of having died with Christ on the Cross) wherein we were held (we were once held down by the sin nature); that we should serve in newness of Spirit (refers to the Holy Spirit and not man’s spirit; the Believer has a completely new way of living, which is Faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross on our behalf; this guarantees perpetual victory), and not in the oldness of the letter (this refers to the Law of Moses; most modern Believers would argue that they aren’t living after the Law of Moses; but, as we have stated, the truth is if they do not understand the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, then in some way they’re still living under that old Law).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#67
What if we didn't kill Jesus? Would He still be Our Savior? Would anything He can do for us be different?
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#68
“ROMANS CHAPTER 7

(A.D. 60)

THE LAW AND SIN
1 Know ye not, Brethren (Paul is speaking to Believers), (for I speak to them who know the Law,) (he is speaking of the Law of Moses, but it could refer to any type of religious Law) how that the Law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? (The Law has dominion as long as he tries to live by Law. Regrettably, not understanding the Cross regarding Sanctification, virtually the entirety of the Church is presently trying to live for God by means of the Law. Let the Believer understand that there are only two places he can be, Grace or Law. If he doesn’t understand the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, which is the only means of victory, he will automatically be under Law, which guarantees failure.)


2 For the woman which has an husband is bound by the Law to her husband so long as he lives (presents Paul using the analogy of the marriage bond); but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the Law of her husband (meaning that she is free to marry again).

3 So then if, while her husband lives, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress (in effect, the woman now has two husbands, at least in the Eyes of God; following this analogy, the Holy Spirit through Paul will give us a great truth; many Christians are living a life of spiritual adultery; they are married to Christ, but they are, in effect, serving another husband, “the Law”; it is quite an analogy!): but if her husband be dead (the Law is dead by virtue of Christ having fulfilled the Law in every respect), she is free from that Law (if the husband dies, the woman is free to marry and serve another; the Law of Moses, being satisfied in Christ, is now dead to the Believer and the Believer is free to serve Christ without the Law having any part or parcel in his life or living); so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man (presents the Believer as now married to Christ, and no longer under obligation to the Law).

4 Wherefore, my Brethren, you also are become dead to the Law (the Law is not dead per se, but we are dead to the Law because we are dead to its effects; this means that we are not to try to live for God by means of “Law,” whether the Law of Moses, or religious Laws made up by other men or of ourselves; we are to be dead to all religious Law) by the Body of Christ (this refers to the Crucifixion of Christ, which satisfied the demands of the broken Law, which we could not satisfy; but Christ did it for us; having fulfilled the Mosaic Law in every respect, the Christian is not obligated to Law in any fashion, only to Christ and what He did at the Cross); that you should be married to another (speaking of Christ), even to Him Who is raised from the dead (we are raised with Him in Newness of Life, and we should ever understand that Christ has met, does meet, and shall meet our every need; we look to Him exclusively, referring to what He did for us at the Cross), that we should bring forth fruit unto God (proper fruit can only be brought forth by the Believer constantly looking to the Cross; in fact, Christ must never be separated from the Work of the Cross; to do so is to produce “another Jesus” [II Cor. 11:4]).

5 For when we were in the flesh (can refer to the unsaved state or to the Believer who is attempting to overcome the powers of sin by his own efforts, i.e., “the flesh”), the motions of sins (denotes being under the power of the sin nature, and refers to the “passions of the sin nature”), which were by the Law (the effect of the Law is to reveal sin, which Law is designed to do whether it’s the Law of God or Laws made up of ourselves; that doesn’t mean it’s evil, for it isn’t; it just means that there is no victory in the Law, only the Revelation of sin and its penalty), did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death (when the Believer attempts to live for the Lord by means of Law, which regrettably most of the modern Church does, the end result is going to be sin and failure; in fact, it can be no other way; let us say it again! if the Believer doesn’t understand the Cross, as it refers to Sanctification, then the Believer is going to try to live for God by means of Law; the sadness is that most of the modern Church thinks it is under Grace, when in reality it is living under Law because of not understanding the Cross).

6 But now we are delivered from the Law (delivered from its just demands, meaning that Christ has paid its penalty), that being dead (dead to the Law by virtue of having died with Christ on the Cross) wherein we were held (we were once held down by the sin nature); that we should serve in newness of Spirit (refers to the Holy Spirit and not man’s spirit; the Believer has a completely new way of living, which is Faith in Christ and what He did at the Cross on our behalf; this guarantees perpetual victory), and not in the oldness of the letter (this refers to the Law of Moses; most modern Believers would argue that they aren’t living after the Law of Moses; but, as we have stated, the truth is if they do not understand the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, then in some way they’re still living under that old Law).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
ROMANS 7

THE STRUGGLE AGAINST SIN
7 What shall we say then? (In Verses 1 through 6 of this Chapter, Paul has shown that the Believer is no longer under Law; in the remainder of the Chapter, he shows that a Believer putting himself under Law, thus failing to avail himself of the resources of Grace, is a defeated Christian.) Is the Law sin? God forbid (man’s condition is not caused by the Law of God, for the Law is Holy; rather it is exposed). No, I had not known sin, but by the Law (means that the Law of Moses defined what sin actually is, but gave no power to overcome sin): for I had not known lust, except the Law had said, You shall not covet (tells us that the desire for what is forbidden is the first conscious form of sin; this is the sin nature at work!).

8 But sin (the sin nature), taking occasion by the Commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (“concupiscence” is “evil desire,” meaning, if the Believer attempts to live for God by means other than the Cross, he will be ruled by “evil desires”; and no matter how dedicated he might be otherwise, he will not be able to stop the process in that manner, with it getting worse and worse). For without the Law sin was dead (means that the Law of Moses fully exposed what was already in man’s heart; that’s one of the reasons God gave the Law).

9 For I was alive without the Law once (Paul is referring to himself personally and his conversion to Christ; the Law, he states, had nothing to do with that conversion; neither did it have anything to do with his life in Christ): but when the Commandment came (having just been Saved, and not understanding the Cross of Christ, he tried to live for God by keeping the Commandments through his own strength and power; in his defense, no one else at that time understood the Cross; in fact, the meaning of the Cross, which is actually the meaning of the New Covenant, would be given to Paul), sin revived (the sin nature will always, without exception, revive under such circumstances, which results in failure), and I died (he was not meaning that he physically died, as would be obvious, but that he died to the Commandment; in other words, he failed to obey no matter how hard he tried; let all Believers understand that if the Apostle Paul couldn’t live for God in this manner, at least successfully, neither can you!).

10 And the Commandment, which was ordained to life (refers to the Ten Commandments), I found to be unto death (means that the Law revealed the sin, as it always does, and its wages which are death; in other words, there is no victory in trying to live by Law; we are to live by Faith, referring to Faith in Christ and the Cross).


JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible

 
Sep 3, 2016
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#69
ROMANS 7

THE STRUGGLE AGAINST SIN
7 What shall we say then? (In Verses 1 through 6 of this Chapter, Paul has shown that the Believer is no longer under Law; in the remainder of the Chapter, he shows that a Believer putting himself under Law, thus failing to avail himself of the resources of Grace, is a defeated Christian.) Is the Law sin? God forbid (man’s condition is not caused by the Law of God, for the Law is Holy; rather it is exposed). No, I had not known sin, but by the Law (means that the Law of Moses defined what sin actually is, but gave no power to overcome sin): for I had not known lust, except the Law had said, You shall not covet (tells us that the desire for what is forbidden is the first conscious form of sin; this is the sin nature at work!).


8 But sin (the sin nature), taking occasion by the Commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (“concupiscence” is “evil desire,” meaning, if the Believer attempts to live for God by means other than the Cross, he will be ruled by “evil desires”; and no matter how dedicated he might be otherwise, he will not be able to stop the process in that manner, with it getting worse and worse). For without the Law sin was dead (means that the Law of Moses fully exposed what was already in man’s heart; that’s one of the reasons God gave the Law).

9 For I was alive without the Law once (Paul is referring to himself personally and his conversion to Christ; the Law, he states, had nothing to do with that conversion; neither did it have anything to do with his life in Christ): but when the Commandment came (having just been Saved, and not understanding the Cross of Christ, he tried to live for God by keeping the Commandments through his own strength and power; in his defense, no one else at that time understood the Cross; in fact, the meaning of the Cross, which is actually the meaning of the New Covenant, would be given to Paul), sin revived (the sin nature will always, without exception, revive under such circumstances, which results in failure), and I died (he was not meaning that he physically died, as would be obvious, but that he died to the Commandment; in other words, he failed to obey no matter how hard he tried; let all Believers understand that if the Apostle Paul couldn’t live for God in this manner, at least successfully, neither can you!).

10 And the Commandment, which was ordained to life (refers to the Ten Commandments), I found to be unto death (means that the Law revealed the sin, as it always does, and its wages which are death; in other words, there is no victory in trying to live by Law; we are to live by Faith, referring to Faith in Christ and the Cross).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
ROMANS 7

11 For sin (the sin nature), taking occasion by the Commandment (in no way blames the Commandment, but that the Commandment actually did agitate the sin nature, and brought it to the fore, which it was designed to do), deceived me (Paul thought, now that he had accepted Christ, by that mere fact alone he could certainly obey the Lord in every respect; but he found he couldn’t, and neither can you, at least in that fashion), and by it slew me (despite all of his efforts to live for the Lord by means of Law-keeping, he failed; and again, I say, so will you!).


12 Wherefore the Law is Holy (points to the fact that it is God’s Revelation of Himself; the problem is not in the Law of God, the problem is in us), and the Commandment Holy, and just, and good (the Law is like a mirror which shows man what he is, but contains no power to change him).

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid (once again, it is not the Law that is at fault, but rather the sin in man which is opposed to the Law). But sin (the sin nature), that it might appear sin (proclaims the Divine intention of the Law, namely that sin might show its true colors), working death in me by that which is good (the Law was good, and is good, but if one attempts to keep its moral precepts by means other than constant Faith in the Cross, the end result will be the “working of death” instead of life; all of this can be done, but only by Faith in Christ and the Cross); that sin (the sin nature) by the Commandment might become exceeding sinful (this greatly confuses the Believer; he is trying to live for God, and trying with all of his strength and might, but continually fails; he doesn’t understand why! the truth is that no one can live for God in this fashion; it is not God’s prescribed order; that order is the Cross).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Aug 14, 2019
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#70
aving just been Saved, and not understanding the Cross of Christ, he tried to live for God by keeping the Commandments through his own strength and power; in his defense, no one else at that time understood the Cross;
Act 9:16
ael; 16 I myself will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of my name.” 17 So Ananias went and entered the house. He laid his hands on Saul[b] and said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on your way here, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and his sight was restored. Then he got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.


To me it seems Ananias didn't think Paul would know the message of the cross since Jesus answered that question, Also, Stephen the first martyr must have understood the
cross.
 
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#71
ROMANS 7

11 For sin (the sin nature), taking occasion by the Commandment (in no way blames the Commandment, but that the Commandment actually did agitate the sin nature, and brought it to the fore, which it was designed to do), deceived me (Paul thought, now that he had accepted Christ, by that mere fact alone he could certainly obey the Lord in every respect; but he found he couldn’t, and neither can you, at least in that fashion), and by it slew me (despite all of his efforts to live for the Lord by means of Law-keeping, he failed; and again, I say, so will you!).

12 Wherefore the Law is Holy (points to the fact that it is God’s Revelation of Himself; the problem is not in the Law of God, the problem is in us), and the Commandment Holy, and just, and good (the Law is like a mirror which shows man what he is, but contains no power to change him).

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid (once again, it is not the Law that is at fault, but rather the sin in man which is opposed to the Law). But sin (the sin nature), that it might appear sin (proclaims the Divine intention of the Law, namely that sin might show its true colors), working death in me by that which is good (the Law was good, and is good, but if one attempts to keep its moral precepts by means other than constant Faith in the Cross, the end result will be the “working of death” instead of life; all of this can be done, but only by Faith in Christ and the Cross); that sin (the sin nature) by the Commandment might become exceeding sinful (this greatly confuses the Believer; he is trying to live for God, and trying with all of his strength and might, but continually fails; he doesn’t understand why! the truth is that no one can live for God in this fashion; it is not God’s prescribed order; that order is the Cross).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
ROMANS 7

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual (refers to the fact that the Law is totally of God, from God, and by God): but I am carnal, sold under sin (refers to Adam’s Fall, which has affected all of mankind and for all time; this means that no one, even Spirit-filled Believers, can keep the Law of God if they attempt to do so outside of Faith in the Cross; in other words, it is all in Christ).

15 For that which I do (the failure) I allow not (should have been translated, "I understand not"; these are not the words of an unsaved man, as some claim, but rather a Believer who is trying and failing): for what I would, that do I not (refers to the obedience he wants to render to Christ, but rather fails; why? As Paul explained, the Believer is married to Christ, but is being unfaithful to Christ by spiritually cohabiting with the Law, which frustrates the Grace of God; that means the Holy Spirit will not help such a person, which guarantees failure [Gal. 2:21]); but what I hate, that do I (refers to sin in his life hates, but finds himself unable to stop; unfortunately, due to the fact of not understanding the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, this is the plight of most modern Christians).

16 If then I do that which I would not (presents Paul doing something against his will; he doesn't want to do it, and is trying not to do it, whatever it might be, but finds himself doing it anyway), I consent unto the Law that it is good (simply means that the Law of God is working as it is supposed to work; it defines sin, portraying the fact that the sin nature will rule in man's heart if not addressed properly).


JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,685
13,375
113
#72
Maybe one of you who are NOT on MoTC's Ignore list (yet) could ask him why he insists on posting Swaggart commentary instead of plain Scripture.

After all, if anyone actually wanted Swaggart's commentary (rofl), they could find it for themselves.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#73
ROMANS 7

14 For we know that the Law is spiritual (refers to the fact that the Law is totally of God, from God, and by God): but I am carnal, sold under sin (refers to Adam’s Fall, which has affected all of mankind and for all time; this means that no one, even Spirit-filled Believers, can keep the Law of God if they attempt to do so outside of Faith in the Cross; in other words, it is all in Christ).

15 For that which I do (the failure) I allow not (should have been translated, "I understand not"; these are not the words of an unsaved man, as some claim, but rather a Believer who is trying and failing): for what I would, that do I not (refers to the obedience he wants to render to Christ, but rather fails; why? As Paul explained, the Believer is married to Christ, but is being unfaithful to Christ by spiritually cohabiting with the Law, which frustrates the Grace of God; that means the Holy Spirit will not help such a person, which guarantees failure [Gal. 2:21]); but what I hate, that do I (refers to sin in his life hates, but finds himself unable to stop; unfortunately, due to the fact of not understanding the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, this is the plight of most modern Christians).

16 If then I do that which I would not (presents Paul doing something against his will; he doesn't want to do it, and is trying not to do it, whatever it might be, but finds himself doing it anyway), I consent unto the Law that it is good (simply means that the Law of God is working as it is supposed to work; it defines sin, portraying the fact that the sin nature will rule in man's heart if not addressed properly).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
ROMANS 7

17 Now then it is no more I that do it (this has been misconstrued by many! it means, "I may be failing, but it's not what I want to do "; no true Christian wants to sin because now the Divine Nature is in his life and it is supposed to rule, not the sin nature [2 Peter 1:4]), but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (despite the fact that some Preachers claim the sin nature is gone from the Christian, Paul here plainly says that the sin nature is still in the Christian; however, if our Faith remains constant in the Cross, the sin nature will be dormant, causing us no problem; otherwise, it will cause great problems; while the sin nature "dwells" in us, it is not to "rule" in us).

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing (speaks of man's own ability, or rather the lack thereof in comparison to the Holy Spirit, at least when it comes to spiritual things): for to will is present with me (Paul is speaking here of his willpower; regrettably, most modern Christians are trying to live for God by means of willpower, thinking falsely that since they have come to Christ, they are now free to say "no" to sin; that is the wrong way to look at the situation; the Believer cannot live for God by the strength of willpower; it alone is not enough; the Believer must exercise Faith in Christ, which automatically says, "no" to the things of the world); but how to perform that which is good I find not (outside of the Cross, it is impossible to find a way to do good).

19 For the good that I would I do not (if I depend on self, and not the Cross): but the evil which I would not (don't want to do), that I do (which is exactly what every Believer will do no matter how hard he tries to do otherwise, if he tries to live this outside of the Cross [Gal. 2:20-21]).

20 Now if I do that I would not (which is exactly what will happen if the Believer tries to live this life outside of God's Prescribed Order), it is no more I that do it, but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (this emphatically states that the Believer has a sin nature; in the original Greek Text, if it contains the definite article before the word "sin" which originally did read "the sin," it is not speaking of acts of sin, but rather the sin nature or the evil nature; the idea is not getting rid of the sin nature, which actually cannot be done, but rather controlling it, which the Apostle has told us how to do in Rom., Chapters. 6 and 8; when the Trump sounds, we will be changed and there will be no more sin nature [Rom. 8:23]).


JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#74
ROMANS 7

17 Now then it is no more I that do it (this has been misconstrued by many! it means, "I may be failing, but it's not what I want to do "; no true Christian wants to sin because now the Divine Nature is in his life and it is supposed to rule, not the sin nature [2 Peter 1:4]), but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (despite the fact that some Preachers claim the sin nature is gone from the Christian, Paul here plainly says that the sin nature is still in the Christian; however, if our Faith remains constant in the Cross, the sin nature will be dormant, causing us no problem; otherwise, it will cause great problems; while the sin nature "dwells" in us, it is not to "rule" in us).

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing (speaks of man's own ability, or rather the lack thereof in comparison to the Holy Spirit, at least when it comes to spiritual things): for to will is present with me (Paul is speaking here of his willpower; regrettably, most modern Christians are trying to live for God by means of willpower, thinking falsely that since they have come to Christ, they are now free to say "no" to sin; that is the wrong way to look at the situation; the Believer cannot live for God by the strength of willpower; it alone is not enough; the Believer must exercise Faith in Christ, which automatically says, "no" to the things of the world); but how to perform that which is good I find not (outside of the Cross, it is impossible to find a way to do good).

19 For the good that I would I do not (if I depend on self, and not the Cross): but the evil which I would not (don't want to do), that I do (which is exactly what every Believer will do no matter how hard he tries to do otherwise, if he tries to live this outside of the Cross [Gal. 2:20-21]).

20 Now if I do that I would not (which is exactly what will happen if the Believer tries to live this life outside of God's Prescribed Order), it is no more I that do it, but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (this emphatically states that the Believer has a sin nature; in the original Greek Text, if it contains the definite article before the word "sin" which originally did read "the sin," it is not speaking of acts of sin, but rather the sin nature or the evil nature; the idea is not getting rid of the sin nature, which actually cannot be done, but rather controlling it, which the Apostle has told us how to do in Rom., Chapters. 6 and 8; when the Trump sounds, we will be changed and there will be no more sin nature [Rom. 8:23]).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
ROMANS 7

21 I find then a Law (does not refer in this case to the Law of Moses, but rather to the "Law of sin and death" [Rom. 8:2]), that, when I would do good, evil (the evil nature) is present with me (the idea is that the sin nature is always going to be with the Believer; there is no hint in the Greek that its stay is temporary, at least until the Trump sounds; we can successfully address the sin nature in only one way, and that is by Faith in Christ and the Cross, which Paul will detail in the next Chapter).

22 For I delight in the Law of God (refers to the moral Law of God ensconced in the Ten Commandments) after the inward man (refers to the spirit and soul of man which has now been regenerated):

23 But I see another Law in my members (the Law of sin and death desiring to use my physical body as an instrument of unrighteousness), warring against the Law of my mind (this is the Law of desire and willpower), and bringing me into captivity to the Law of sin (the Law of sin and death) which is in my members (which will function through my members, and make me a slave to the Law of sin and death; this will happen to the most consecrated Christian if that Christian doesn't constantly exercise Faith in Christ and the Cross that all powers of darkness were defeated [Col. 2:14-15]).

24 O wretched man that I am! (Any Believer who attempts to live for God outside of God's Prescribed Order, which is "Jesus Christ and Him Crucified," will, in fact, live a wretched and miserable existence. This life can only be lived in one way, and that way is the Cross.) Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? (The minute he cries "Who," he finds the path to Victory, for he is now calling upon a Person for help, and that Person is Christ; actually, the Greek Text is masculine, indicating a Person).

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord (presents Paul revealing the answer to his own question; Deliverance comes through Jesus Christ Alone, and more particularly what Jesus did at Calvary and the Resurrection). So then with the mind I myself serve the Law of God (the "will" is the trigger, but it within itself can do nothing unless the gun is loaded with explosive power; that Power is the Cross); but with the flesh the Law of sin (if the Believer resorts to the "flesh," [i.e., "self-will, self-effort, religious effort"] which refers to his own ability outside of Christ and the Cross, he will not serve the Law of God, but rather the Law of sin).


JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#76
What if we didn't kill Jesus? Would He still be Our Savior? Would anything He can do for us be different?
If the Jewish people would have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, we would have gone directly into the Millennium Age (for one thousand years). By now we would be at the Perfect Age.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#77
If the Jewish people would have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, we would have gone directly into the Millennium Age (for one thousand years). By now we would be at the Perfect Age.
Baseless speculation. Nothing in Scripture supports this. God knew long beforehand that the Jews would reject Jesus, just as He knew in the time of Moses that the Israelites would not follow Him consistently.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#78
Your Word for Today

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the Law; you are fallen from Grace (Gal. 5:4).

The idea of this Verse is that the Galatian Christians, by putting themselves under Law, have put themselves in a place where they have ceased to be in that relation to Christ where they could derive the spiritual benefits from Him which would enable them to live a life pleasing to Him, namely, through the Ministry of the Holy Spirit. In depriving themselves of the Ministry of the Holy Spirit in the living of the Christian Life, they have “fallen from Grace.”

To “fall from Grace” refers to the Believer placing his faith in something other than Christ and the Cross. It really doesn’t matter what the “other” is. The person has placed himself in a position where the Holy Spirit cannot work satisfactorily in their life; therefore, the flow of Grace stops.

Grace is the Goodness of God extended to undeserving Believers. It is superintended by the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit Who makes all of these good things possible in our hearts and lives, but the Source is Christ and the means is the Cross.

Most Christians think that “falling from Grace” refers to one committing a great sin. That is correct, but not as they think! It is a great sin for any Believer to forsake Christ and what He has done for us at the Cross, thereby placing his faith in something else. Considering the price that Jesus paid at the Cross, one certainly can realize what an insult such action is.

I once heard two Preachers on Television discussing another person who had grievously failed the Lord by committing an appalling sin of the flesh. They concluded that the commission of this grievous sin constituted “falling from Grace.”

No! It didn’t. No! It doesn’t.

While sin is a most horrible and terrible thing, and will always have dire consequences, the person who does such is the one who desperately needs the Grace of God, and, if proper Faith in Christ and the Cross is evidenced, he will always be the beneficiary of such Grace (I Jn. 1:9). Those two Preachers, actually, were the ones who had “fallen from Grace,” because neither one of them pointed to the Cross of Christ as the Object of Faith, but rather to works of many and varied kinds. Tragically, due to the fact that the Cross has been so little preached in the last several decades, most in the modern Church belong to the same category.

Every single Believer on the face of the Earth must have a continued, uninterrupted flow of the Grace of God, i.e., “the Goodness of God,” in order to live a victorious life. Without it, it simply cannot be done. To have that uninterrupted flow, all one has to do is to simply place his Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14). This will not guarantee that such a Believer will never again fail, but it does guarantee that such a Believer is on the right path, and will ultimately come out to a total and complete place and position in Christ to where sin no longer has dominion over such a person (Rom. 6:14).

— Donnie Swaggart (taken from the “Word for Every Day”)

Donnie Swaggart
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#79
The Holy Spirit, Works strictly within the parameters of the "Finished Work" i.e., "the Cross of Christ", which demands that our Faith be exclusively in the Cross of Christ. The reason is simple, that's were the price was paid, and the victory was forever won (Romans 6:1-14; 1 Cor. 2:2; Gal. 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).

The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)


Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!


The only way to God is through Jesus Christ (John 14:6)...the only way to Jesus Christ is by the Means of the Cross (Luke 14:27). The only way to the Cross is a denial of self (Luke 9:23). If any person tries to come any other way, Jesus says, "they are a thief and a robber" (John 10:1).

Most modern Christians simply do not know how to live for God; consequently, they make the attempt in all the wrong ways, which results in the words of the Apostle Paul being fulfilled in their lives, “O wretched man that I am . . .” (Rom. 7:24). Living for the Lord can be carried out successfully in only one way, and that is by the Believer understanding that everything we receive from the Lord comes to us exclusively through Christ as the Source and the Cross as the Means.
 
L

lenna

Guest
#80
Well sister, I guess you had to be there....lol
Actually the other poster messageoftheCross has some of it I think but it doesn't seem to be something ever experienced, It's something you have to take on faith as really happening. The words I use come out of 'union' with Christ experienced, a 'participation' with, stuff like that. Thank you for asking Lenna,
better to ask if not sure, right?

well I would say believers do have a union with Christ but it seems you are talking about a deeper union