The "Impossible" Gospel

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
64
9Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;
10And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

so the same law he gave Jacob, God gave to Abraham as an oath.

would that mean Abraham keep the Sabbath yes
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
JesusLives said:
Elin said:
Actually, sin is not taken into account where there is no law, as there was none from Adam to Moses.

"before the Law was given, sin was in the world
(as proven by the death of all men).
But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was our pattern to come.
(Ro 5:13-14).
The sad part is that you really believe this...like I said God help us.
I'm thinking my believing every word of the bible is not where the sad part lies.
Are you forgetting that God actually walked and talked with Adam and Eve? They had a close relationship connection that we can't even dream about and you really think that Adam and Eve would not know what the rules of God's Kingdom was? Not everything has to be written on paper.
They knew between right and wrong and they knew they had broken God's law.
And this relates to Ro 5:13-14, how?

Non responsive.
 
Last edited:
K

Karraster

Guest
God's law 10 Commandments has always been valid and not just given to the Jews. At the end of Creation God's sign and seal and signature at the end of His creation was the 7th Day Sabbath that He blessed, hallowed, sanctified and made as a sign between us and Him.

Adam and Eve knew they had broken God's law as they sinned against it by coveting something they should not have which was fruit off a tree told not to eat from as they hid from God when He came looking for them in the garden. Then they tried to place blame on anyone and anything rather than own up to their sin. They also showed they loved themselves more than God when they disobeyed.

Cain knew he had broken God's law not only with the wrong sacrifice of just vegetables, fruits and grains, but by murdering his brother because Cain knew he should not murder his brother.

Many examples of the 10 commandments were being broken before they were ever given on Mt. Sinai, but no one wants to pay attention to the fact that God's law has been in effect forever and will continue to be obeyed throughout eternity.

Jesus has always and only been our means of salvation and reconciling ourselves to God, but God has a law that runs His government and I will never understand why people fight against and want to disregard those laws. Jesus is our Savior, but even He asked us to obey is better than sacrifice. When we love Him we want to do what is asked of us and the only way to do it is with the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, Jesus living in us to will and to do His good pleasure. I don't understand why people don't get this....

We are so blinded by sin - God please help us.
Good post sister. Why don't we just obey? It's really so much easier than looking everywhere for an excuse, a loophole, so we can justify to ourselves why it's ok to disregard what our Creator has said. A Psalm of David, and (selah) means "look here very important"

Who may go up to the mountain of Adonai?
Who can stand in his holy place?
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Those with clean hands and pure hearts,
who don’t make vanities the purpose of their lives
or swear oaths just to deceive.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]They will receive a blessing from Adonai
and justice from God, who saves them.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Such is the character of those who seek him,
of Ya‘akov, who seeks your face. (Selah)
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
And this relates to Ro 5:13-14, how?

Non responsive.
Sorry Elin I am responsive. The Bible also plainly states that the wages of sin is death. Therefore since people were dying from Adam to Moses they had to know God's law had been broken other wise they would have been living because sin is transgression of the law. The law shows us what sin is and it would have been unfair for God to kill people if they didn't know they were breaking the law therefore I believe they knew of that law handed down by word of mouth from God's lips to Adam and Adam to his son's and so on and so forth.

God's government has always had a law to follow ask Lucifer/Satan....as he was the first one to break it with pride and coveting God's position. Oh that might be a little difficult but Satan is well aware of God's law trust me.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
64
You really have a hard time comprehending text.

Read again my statement above.
and "in Christ" tells how they are fulfilled

8He hath remembered his covenant for ever,
the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

9Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac;


10And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:



so i ask where does Christ fulfilled this covenent and did away with it, like you claim.

i still not see where a thousand generations are over with, which question you keep avoiding.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
and "in Christ" tells how they are fulfilled
so i ask where does Christ fulfilled this covenent and did away with it, like you claim.
If you still do not understand, I think maybe it's time for you to ask God the meaning of his word in

"All of God's promises are yea and Amen in Christ." (2Co 1:20)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
64
If you still do not understand it, I think maybe it's time for you to ask God the meaning of his word in

"All of God's promises are yea and Amen in Christ." (2Co 1:20)
so all are still yes, and Glory of God.

20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen,
unto the glory of God by us.
kjv

So all promises is valid the verse says

 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Elin said:
JesusLives said:
Elin said:
Actually, sin is not taken into account where there is no law,
as there was none from Adam to Moses.

"before the Law was given, sin was in the world (as proven by the death of all men).
But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam,
who was our pattern to come.
(Ro 5:13-14).
Adam and Eve knew between right and wrong and they knew they had broken God's law.
And this relates to Ro 5:13-14, how?

Non responsive.
Sorry Elin I am responsive. The Bible also plainly states that the wages of sin is death. Therefore since people were dying from Adam to Moses they had to know God's law had been broken other wise they would have been living because sin is transgression of the law. The law shows us what sin is and it would have been unfair for God to kill people if they didn't know they were breaking the law therefore I believe they knew of that law handed down by word of mouth from God's lips to Adam and Adam to his son's and so on and so forth.
And this relates to Ro 5:13-14, how?

The operative word is "taken into account," it's not about "knowledge."

Non responsive.
 
Last edited:
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
Well, there is definitely no life in the Law.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
(2Co 3:7-8)

The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
(1Co 15:56)
So!! Scripture proves the law is death so we must stay completely away from it. There is no life in it, and with no life it means nothing to us, we are all for life. The law is the strength of sin.

So when the Lord calls it the Torah and says it is good, then the Lord reverses that and says it is nothing but death, maybe we should just dump the entire scripture, not only the law. There is so much of law in it, even the Sermon on the Mount speaks of it, yet you point out it is nothing but death and bad, maybe with a book so filled with this bad stuff we should just toss the entire book?
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,788
2,387
113
And this relates to Ro 5:13-14, how?

The operative word is "taken into account," it's not about "knowledge."

Non responsive.
So then, something killed them, what, was it that there was (no) law or did the (unaccounted) sin kill them?
 
Last edited:
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
Good post sister. Why don't we just obey? It's really so much easier than
looking everywhere for an excuse, a loophole
Are you saying that you also do not believe the word of God in

"before the Law was given, sin was in the world (as proven by the death of all men).
But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,
even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was our pattern to come."
(Ro 5:13-14).
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,408
113
Not until Nathan defined the truth of the law to David did he understand his infraction. David then came to the knowledge of the truth.

Exodus 22:1-4
1 If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.
2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die , there shall no blood be shed for him.
3 If the sun be risen upon him, there shall be blood shed for him; for he should make full restitution ; if he have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
4 If the theft be certainly found in his hand alive, whether it be ox, or ass, or sheep; he shall restore double.

2 Samuel 12:1-7
1 And the LORD sent Nathan unto David. And he came unto him, and said unto him, There were two men in one city; the one rich, and the other poor.
2 The rich man had exceeding many flocks and herds:
3 But the poor man had nothing, save one little ewe lamb, which he had bought and nourished up: and it grew up together with him, and with his children; it did eat of his own meat, and drank of his own cup, and lay in his bosom, and was unto him as a daughter.
4 And there came a traveller unto the rich man, and he spared to take of his own flock and of his own herd, to dress for the wayfaring man that was come unto him; but took the poor man's lamb, and dressed it for the man that was come to him.
5 And David's anger was greatly kindled against the man; and he said to Nathan, As the LORD liveth, the man that hath done this thing shall surely die:
6 And he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

"wilfully" is the key word to define a clear cut rebellion.
I suggest you study the Psalms as DAVID WAS CONVICTED to the core over his sin and your fallacy rejects the fact that DAVID knew the LAW and still chose to take Bathsheba and murder Uriah...do you even study?
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
182
0
I suggest you study the Psalms as DAVID WAS CONVICTED to the core over his sin and your fallacy rejects the fact that DAVID knew the LAW and still chose to take Bathsheba and murder Uriah...do you even study?
The very fact that your habit in your posts is to personally accuse instead of reporting scripture shows that in truth, you do not study! David willfully sinned, and David willfully repented.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
so all are still yes, and Glory of God.

20For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen,
unto the glory of God by us. kjv

So all promises is valid the verse says
Yes, and they are all now contained in Christ.

In believing the gospel and experiencing its dynamic power you have proved it
to be one great affirmation in Christ, in whom all God's promises are yes.

 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,408
113
Mostly no disagreement here, with the exception of "by your definition all will be lost.." Our definition of lost may be different. We are lost if we have not accepted the free gift of salvation and repented of our sins, and then continue to repent as we discover those things God calls sinning. My personal experience is that God was merciful with my sins knowing that one day I would have a heart that desires to please Him and guard His Torah by obeying all that I can (seeing how I'm not a Levitical priest, a farmer, etc.) I encourage others to find life worth living through YHWH's Torah that Y'shua upheld and filled up the correct meaining. If one is still in ignorance, is he/she accountable for unknown sins? No, God is merciful, gracious and slow to anger and He knows what is best for us and how wie will choose. Are you saying that "all will be lost" if they have knowledge of Torah and in rebellion prefer to keep their man-made traditions and doctrines over what YHWH has asked of us? Perhaps that is the unpardonable sin?
The only unpardonable sin is unbelief and yes the root of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unbelief.....!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,408
113
David repented, as you are aware. It takes ALL of these scriptures not some. We are forgiven for sin, even if it is willful. We have fleshly desires that lead us to sin. We must repent from our willful sin, not identify ourselves with them. All of these scriptures. And get your pointy finger out of my face if you don't mind!!

Again you read into my posts things that I did not say and what gives? Didn't know I had a finger in you face RED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
So!! Scripture proves the law is death so we must stay completely away from it. There is no life in it, and with no life it means nothing to us, we are all for life. The law is the strength of sin.

So when the Lord calls it the Torah and says it is good, then the Lord reverses
that
Setting the Scriptures against themselves shows misunderstanding of them.
 
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
So then, something killed them, what, was it that there was (no) law or did the (unaccounted) sin kill them?
Paul's argument is:

the wages of sin is death (Ro 6:23),
but sin was not taken into account (guilt was not ascribed) from Adam to Moses,
yet all died because of their guilt.

So of what sin were they guilty when guilt of their own sin is not ascribed?
They were guilty of Adam's sin (Ro 5:18).
 
Last edited:

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
5,302
1,720
113
Setting the Scriptures against themselves shows misunderstanding of them.
I agree. It is so easy to find a list of scriptures that support our personal opinion that we tend to stop there. When we find an appearance of conflict, it's time to dig a little deeper. I appreciate the depth that you have placed in the study of this topic.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,788
2,387
113
Paul's argument is:

the wages of sin is death (Ro 6:23),
but sin was not taken into account (guilt was not ascribed) from Adam to Moses,
yet all died because of their guilt.


So of what sin were they guilty when guilt of their own sin is not ascribed?
They were guilty of Adam's sin (Ro 5:18).
I get your point, everyone dies by Adam's disobedience, and everyone lives by Christ's obedience. By what do we know when/if(not) we are obedient as Christ is?