The "Impossible" Gospel

[Elin]

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Nothing new about loving our neighbor.
Why do you call it "new"? Jesus is reiterating the Torah and prophets, right?

It's pretty obvious, don't you think, why it is new?

Do you find all the law and the prophets summed up anywhere in the OT in two single commands

which do not include observance of all the myriad regulations of the Mosaic ceremonial law?

there are curses in the law for not being obedient:

There are no curses for those under the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law,

I have seen here a discussion that the law which has curses for disobedience has become
the law is a curse. That would not be a true statement. Why?

The meaning of Gal 3:10, 13 above are pretty clear, and they speak for themselves:

That is God's Law and not Law of Moses.

A distinction without a difference.

He came to fully preach and teach the Torah so that we could understand it correctly, not to do away with it.

He came to die as a ransom for sin (Mt 20:28, 26:28; Jn 10:11) for those who believe in him.

 

[crossnote]

Then we agree that if the basement is destroyed the house will fall down and also be destroyed. Just because we see the necessity of the basement doesn't mean we are living in it. I'm sure the prophets were looking forward to having the house completed through our Messiah, the same as we are thankful that we have an advocate with our Father in heaven with a warranty for the dwelling He has constructed step by step according to the plan.

Well the way some are still living by law and not by faith I wonder if they have moved upstairs yet.

 

[ELECT]

Well the way some are still living by law and not by faith I wonder if they have moved upstairs yet.

Did those in the OT lived by law or faith or both ? why

 

[ELECT]

It's pretty obvious, don't you think, why it is new?

Do you find all the law and the prophets summed up anywhere in the OT in two single commands

which do not include observance of all the myriad regulations of the Mosaic ceremonial law?


There are no curses for those under the new covenant law of Christ (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).


The meaning of Gal 3:10, 13 above are pretty clear, and they speak for themselves:


A distinction without a difference.


He came to die as a ransom for sin (Mt 20:28, 26:28; Jn 10:11) for those who believe in him.

What law is this ? is it the NT or OT law and does the verse still stands today ?

Proverbs 28:9King James Version (KJV)

9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

 

[Elin]

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

I think what it may be is that the above verse can be mistaken if read to contain a scornful tone. For example,
as if it were saying, "you will live in your misery."

The context, I think, shows Paul is contrasting living by faith and living by law,

that no one is justified (will live, be born again) by the law for two reasons:

1) because the righteous will live (be born again) by faith (Ro 1:17) not by law keeping, and

2) the law is not based on faith, rather it is those who keep it that will live (be justified).

And of course, no one (Ro 3:10) keeps it well enough to be justified by it,

and so all are under its curse (Gal 3:10) for imperfect obedience.

 

[crossnote]

Did those in the OT lived by law or faith or both ? why

The true believers have always lived by faith since the time of Abel. The religionists live by law...aka self righteous.

 

[ELECT]

To fulfill is to accomplish.

then we should not be baptising people anymore

Matthew 3:13-17King James Version (KJV)


13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.


14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?


15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

 

[ELECT]

The true believers have always lived by faith since the time of Abel. The religionists live by law...aka self righteous.

Why do people say that the OT is about law and the NT is about grace ?
Did not grace exist before that ?

 

[ELECT]

The context, I think, shows Paul is contrasting living by faith and living by law,

that no one is justified (will live, be born again) by the law for two reasons:

1) because the righteous will live (be born again) by faith (Ro 1:17) not by law keeping, and

2) the law is not based on faith, rather it is those who keep it that will live (be justified).

And of course, no one (Ro 3:10) keeps it well enough to be justified by it,

and so all are under its curse (Gal 3:10) for imperfect obedience.

What law is that being reffered to ?

 

[Elin]

Did those in the OT lived by law or faith or both ? why

Those who were saved were saved by their faith, not their law keeping (Ge 15:6).

 

[WomanLovesTX]

It's just that our source for life is not by trying to live the law but our walk is by faith...

Certainly all who depend on the actions of the Law are under a curse. For it is written, "A curse on everyone who does not obey everything that is written in the Book of the Law!" Now it is obvious that no one is justified in the sight of God by the Law, because "The righteous will live by faith." But the Law has nothing to do with faith. Instead, "The person who keeps the commandments will have life in them." The Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written, "A curse on everyone who is hung on a tree!" This happened in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the gentiles through the Messiah Jesus, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:10-14) (ISV)

or compare

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:10-14)

Again, Paul is not saying anything new, but is quoting from the Torah and Tanach.

Neh 9:29 And testifiedst against them, that thou mightest bring them again unto thy law: yet they dealt proudly, and hearkened not unto thy commandments, but sinned against thy judgments, (which if a man do, he shall live in them and withdrew the shoulder, and hardened their neck, and would not hear.

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

If one understands the OT scriptures, then one will understand what Paul is saying. Paul is not changing the OT, no, that would be mocking Yah who never changes. Paul is not changing the message, he is fully preaching (pleroo) the OT, same as Jesus/Y'shua fully preached (fulfill/pleroo) the Torah and prophets.

 

[ELECT]

Those who were saved were saved by their faith, not their law keeping (Ge 15:6).

If Abraham did not keep these laws could he have been saved ?

[h=1]Genesis 26:5King James Version (KJV)[/h]5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

 

[Elin]

What law is this ? is it the NT or OT law and does the verse still stands today ?

Proverbs 28:9King James Version (KJV)

9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

The law of God which is the law of Christ (1Co 9:21) in Mt 22:37-39,

and fulfills (accomplishes) all the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

 

[JesusLives]

Those who were saved were saved by their faith, not their law keeping (Ge 15:6).

Ah but faith without works is dead and part of those works in showing love to God is obedience and that would be obedience of Gods law of love.

 

[ELECT]

The law of God which is the law of Christ (1Co 9:21) in Mt 22:37-39,

and fulfills (accomplishes) all the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

So the law of Christ exited in the OT before Jesus came ?

 

[Elin]

then we should not be baptising people anymore

Matthew 3:13-17King James Version (KJV)


13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.


14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?


15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.


16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:


17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Your point?

 

[crossnote]

Why do people say that the OT is about law and the NT is about grace ?
Did not grace exist before that ?

Grace has existed since the beginning, our God is a gracious God. Perhaps because the Mosaic Covenant was given to Israel, many equate that with ALL the OT...

Galatians 3:19, 21, 23-26 Why then was the law given? It was added because of transgressions, until the arrival of the descendant to whom the promise had been made. It was administered through angels by an intermediary.
Is the law therefore opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that was able to give life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed.
Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith.
But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.
For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.

 

[Elin]

What law is that being reffered to ?

The law given to Moses by God.

 

[ELECT]

Those who were saved were saved by their faith, not their law keeping (Ge 15:6).

When you accepted Jesus by faith and became saved ,did you just sit there and do no works ?
Do you do good works ?
Why or Why not ?
what are these good works if you do them ?

 

[Elin]

If Abraham did not keep these laws could he have been saved ?

Genesis 26:5King James Version (KJV)

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Eleven chapters earlier the word of God says that he was (Ge 15:6).