The "Impossible" Gospel

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Mar 4, 2013
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Just because a house needs a foundation doesn't mean the residents have to live in the basement. :)
If they didn't need a basement the contractor should have never built one.:p
 
Oct 31, 2011
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I am not saying that anyone is forced to keep the Sabbath.

I also believe Gods promises is still valid like
.
That is what is wrong with the interpretation of the word Torah as law. People get the idea that God is forcing something on them and they react like little three year olds "I don't wannna". The Lord told us, for instance, to keep the Sabbath, the Lord gave us the Sabbath for our sakes and keeping it is for our happiness and good. If you want to choose not to keep it, it is up to you we all have free choice.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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I have not found a Bible version yet that uses the word "accomplishes" as in your statement of Mt 22:37-40. What does accomplish mean to you and did you substitute that word yourself?
To fulfill is to accomplish.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
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Thank you.

Are you familiar with the new covenant (Jer 31:33) law of Christ
which fulfills all the prophets and the law (Mt 22:37-40)?
Same chapter of Jeremiah (in context)
[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:1[/FONT][FONT=&quot] At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest. [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:3[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. [/FONT](Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. )



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:7[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT](Mat_1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. )



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:9[/FONT][FONT=&quot] They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. [/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:10[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations (GENTILES) , and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot] For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]



"Nations" = H1471
gôy gôy
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:14[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the LORD. [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not. [/FONT](Scattered, dispursed, after captivity - Her children were no longer the House of Israel)



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:16[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy. [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:20[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD. [/FONT](Ephraim was the leader of the Ten Northern Tribes...ie ten lost tribes...lost sheep...)



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:28[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD. [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:31[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:32[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:33[/FONT][FONT=&quot] But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jer 31:34[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once "for all." (Words added by the translators!!)


Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

Mat_1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Mat 19:10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.
Mat 19:11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.

Mat_5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

Mar_10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Jer_3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

GOD'S OWN LAW THAT HE WILL NOT EVER BREAK:
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.











GOD'S SOLUTION:

Come down as God with us and completely teach properly the Torah, piss off the Pharisees and Saducees, live a perfect sinless life while doing these things, sacrifice Himself for HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL, die, buried 3 days in the heart of the earth, ressurect (fulfilling that he was a true prophet as the only sign He gave was Jonah) and fulfill all the Spring Holy Days/Feasts, walk among His disciples for 40 days, then raise up to heaven and sit at the right hand of God and send the Holy Spirit to those who accept Him and His sacrifice and His promises.

Therefore, God who cannot lie, nor does He change, made a way for the House of Israel to come back and be the bride of Christ. This is why all must come into the commonwealth of Israel....because that is the only place it's going to happen. All our welcomed to become Israel. Grafted in, adopted, filled with the Holy Spirit and have His Torah written on your hearts and be filled with a desire to show our fruit of the Torah....Yah's and Y'shua's perfect and complete THE WAY for all who will be in His Kingdom.

Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Jer 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
Jer 6:18 Therefore hear, ye nations, and know, O congregation, what is among them.
Jer 6:19 Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Same chapter of Jeremiah (in context)
Jer 31:1 At the same time, saith the LORD, will I be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be my people.
2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. (Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. )


7 For thus saith the LORD; Sing with gladness for Jacob, and shout among the chief of the nations: publish ye, praise ye, and say, O LORD, save thy people, the remnant of Israel.(Mat_1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. )

9 They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.
10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations (GENTILES) , and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.
11 For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

14 And I will satiate the soul of the priests with fatness, and my people shall be satisfied with my goodness, saith the LORD.
15 Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not. (Scattered, dispursed, after captivity - Her children were no longer the House of Israel)
16 Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD. (Ephraim was the leader of the Ten Northern Tribes...ie ten lost tribes...lost sheep...)

28
And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Yes, that would be part of the prophets and law fulfilled in Jesus new covenant law of Mt 22:37-40.
 
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Oct 31, 2011
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Yes, that would be part of the prophets and law fulfilled in Jesus new covenant law of Mt 22:37-40.
Mat 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands." Did you actually read these scriptures? They don't negate the law or prophets, so your understanding of the new covenant idea is not promoted with this scripture.



 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
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To fulfill is to accomplish.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil #G4137.

G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled #G1096

G1096
γίνομαι
ginomai
ghin'-om-ahee
A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be (“gen” -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled, be (come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, be done, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

Accomplish - Webster's define

verb (used with object) 1. to bring to its goal or conclusion; carry out; perform; finish: to accomplish one's mission.



2. to complete (a distance or period of time): to have accomplished the age of 70; We accomplished the journey in little more than an hour.


3. Archaic. to provide polish to; perfect.

If pleroo means to you to put an end to, then did Paul put an end to preaching Christ?

Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached (pleroo G4127) the gospel of Christ.





If you have joy one day, when it is full (pleroo G4127) it is now done away with, finished, ended?

[FONT=&quot]Joh_3:29[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He that hath[SUP]G2192[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] bride[SUP]G3565[/SUP] is[SUP]G2076[/SUP] the bridegroom:[SUP]G3566[/SUP] but[SUP]G1161[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] friend[SUP]G5384[/SUP] of the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] bridegroom,[SUP]G3566[/SUP] which standeth[SUP]G2476[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] heareth[SUP]G191[/SUP] him,[SUP]G846[/SUP] rejoiceth[SUP]G5463[/SUP] greatly[SUP]G5479[/SUP] because[SUP]G1223[/SUP] of the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] bridegroom's[SUP]G3566[/SUP] voice:[SUP]G5456[/SUP] this[SUP]G3778[/SUP] my[SUP]G1699[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] therefore[SUP]G3767[/SUP] is fulfilled.[SUP]G4137[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh_15:11[/FONT][FONT=&quot] These things[SUP]G5023[/SUP] have I spoken[SUP]G2980[/SUP] unto you,[SUP]G5213[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] my[SUP]G1699[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] might remain[SUP]G3306[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] you,[SUP]G5213[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] that your[SUP]G5216[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] might be full.[SUP]G4137[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh_16:24[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Hitherto[SUP]G2193 G737[/SUP] have ye[SUP](G3756)[/SUP] asked[SUP]G154[/SUP] nothing[SUP]G3762[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] my[SUP]G3450[/SUP] name:[SUP]G3686[/SUP] ask,[SUP]G154[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] ye shall receive,[SUP]G2983[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] your[SUP]G5216[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] may be[SUP]G5600[/SUP] full.[SUP]G4137[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh_17:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And[SUP]G1161[/SUP] now[SUP]G3568[/SUP] come[SUP]G2064[/SUP] I to[SUP]G4314[/SUP] thee;[SUP]G4571[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] these things[SUP]G5023[/SUP] I speak[SUP]G2980[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] world,[SUP]G2889[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] they might have[SUP]G2192[/SUP] my[SUP]G1699[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] fulfilled[SUP]G4137[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] themselves.[SUP]G848[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act_2:28[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Thou hast made known[SUP]G1107[/SUP] to me[SUP]G3427[/SUP] the ways[SUP]G3598[/SUP] of life;[SUP]G2222[/SUP] thou shalt make me full[SUP]G4137 G3165[/SUP] of joy[SUP]G2167[/SUP] with[SUP]G3326[/SUP] thy[SUP]G4675[/SUP] countenance.[SUP]G4383[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Act_13:52[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And[SUP]G1161[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] disciples[SUP]G3101[/SUP] were filled[SUP]G4137[/SUP] with joy,[SUP]G5479[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] with the Holy[SUP]G40[/SUP] Ghost.[SUP]G4151[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rom_15:13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Now[SUP]G1161[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] God[SUP]G2316[/SUP] of hope[SUP]G1680[/SUP] fill[SUP]G4137[/SUP] you[SUP]G5209[/SUP] with all[SUP]G3956[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] peace[SUP]G1515[/SUP] in believing,[SUP]G4100[/SUP] that ye[SUP]G5209[/SUP] may abound[SUP]G4052[/SUP] in[SUP]G1722[/SUP] hope,[SUP]G1680[/SUP] through[SUP]G1722[/SUP] the power[SUP]G1411[/SUP] of the Holy[SUP]G40[/SUP] Ghost.[SUP]G4151[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Php_2:2[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Fulfil[SUP]G4137[/SUP] ye my[SUP]G3450[/SUP] joy,[SUP]G5479[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] ye be likeminded,[SUP]G5426 G846[/SUP] having[SUP]G2192[/SUP] the[SUP]G3588[/SUP] same[SUP]G846[/SUP] love,[SUP]G26[/SUP] being of one accord,[SUP]G4861[/SUP] of one[SUP]G1520[/SUP] mind.[SUP]G5426[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2Ti_1:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Greatly desiring[SUP]G1971[/SUP] to see[SUP]G1492[/SUP] thee,[SUP]G4571[/SUP] being mindful[SUP]G3415[/SUP] of thy[SUP]G4675[/SUP] tears,[SUP]G1144[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] I may be filled[SUP]G4137[/SUP] with joy;[SUP]G5479[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1Jn_1:4[/FONT][FONT=&quot] And[SUP]G2532[/SUP] these things[SUP]G5023[/SUP] write[SUP]G1125[/SUP] we unto you,[SUP]G5213[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] your[SUP]G5216[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] may be[SUP]G5600[/SUP] full.[SUP]G4137[/SUP] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2Jn_1:12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Having[SUP]G2192[/SUP] many things[SUP]G4183[/SUP] to write[SUP]G1125[/SUP] unto you,[SUP]G5213[/SUP] I would[SUP]G1014[/SUP] not[SUP]G3756[/SUP] write with[SUP]G1223[/SUP] paper[SUP]G5489[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] ink:[SUP]G3188[/SUP] but[SUP]G235[/SUP] I trust[SUP]G1679[/SUP] to come[SUP]G2064[/SUP] unto[SUP]G4314[/SUP] you,[SUP]G5209[/SUP] and[SUP]G2532[/SUP] speak[SUP]G2980[/SUP] face to face,[SUP]G4750 G4314 G4750[/SUP] that[SUP]G2443[/SUP] our[SUP]G2257[/SUP] joy[SUP]G5479[/SUP] may be[SUP]G5600[/SUP] full.[SUP]G4137[/SUP] [/FONT]
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
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Yes, that would be part of the prophets and law fulfilled in Jesus new covenant law of Mt 22:37-40.
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Elin, in lieu of my previous post, how do you understand verse 40? That the Torah is law and is no longer applicable to a Christians' life? Or perhaps, makes it applicable to our lives as Christians?
 
Jan 19, 2013
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If pleroo means to you to put an end to, then did Paul put an end to preaching Christ?

Rom 15:19 Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached (pleroo G4127) the gospel of Christ.
He put an end to their ignorance of the gospel.

If you have joy one day, when it is full (pleroo G4127) it is now done away with, finished, ended?
Its further increasing is ended.

That's some torturous word play in shoe horning your theology into the NT.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Mat 22:40 All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands." Did you actually read these scriptures? They don't negate the law or prophets, so your understanding of the new covenant idea is not promoted with this scripture.
You have me confused with someone else.

The law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) sums up (Mt 7:12) the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40).

Christ's new covenant law of love fulfills (accomplishes) the old covenant law (Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).



 
Jan 19, 2013
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Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.


Elin, in lieu of my previous post, how do you understand verse 40? That the Torah is law and is no longer applicable to a Christians' life? Or perhaps, makes it applicable to our lives as Christians?
I understand it according to Mt 7:12, that the law of Christ sums up the law or Moses,

and according to Ro 13:8-10 that it fulfills the law (Gal 5:6).

I understand it to mean all the myriad regulations of the Mosaic law do not apply to those under the new covenant.

I understand it to mean that if we love God and our neighbor, we will be necessarily practicing the law of God.
 
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You have me confused with someone else.

The law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) sums up (Mt 7:12) the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40).

Christ's new covenant law of love fulfills (accomplishes) the old covenant law (Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).
Maybe someone else is posting for you?

Here you are saying that the law of love is Crist's new law---and I read this to say that you think the law of love is new in Christ. If God is love, if the OT says that is one of the attributes of the Father, how could this idea of love be new? Sounds to me as if you see your Creature as the ornery, mean force that wants killing and stoning, so Christ has to renew all of that to bring in love.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
You have me confused with someone else.
The law of Christ (Mt 22:37-39) sums up (Mt 7:12) the law and the prophets (Mt 22:40).

Christ's new covenant law of love fulfills (accomplishes) the old covenant law (Ro 13:8-10; Gal 5:6).

Maybe someone else is posting for you?

Here you are saying that the law of love is Crist's new law---and I read this to say that you think the law of love is new in Christ. If God is love, if the OT says that is one of the attributes of the Father, how could this idea of love be new? Sounds to me as if you see your Creature as the ornery, mean force that wants killing and stoning, so Christ has to renew all of that to bring in love.
What I said speaks for itself.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Too many trying to keep Torah fail to stop and thank Jesus for keeping Torah in their stead.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
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I understand it according to Mt 7:12, that the law of Christ sums up the law or Moses,

and according to Ro 13:8-10 that it fulfills the law (Gal 5:6).

I understand it to mean all the myriad regulations of the Mosaic law do not apply to those under the new covenant.

I understand it to mean that if we love God and our neighbor, we will be necessarily practicing the law of God.
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Jesus quote from the Torah and prophets:

Lev 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Jer 7:5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
Jer 7:6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
Jer 7:7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

Nothing new about loving our neighbor. Why do you call it "new"? Jesus is reiterating the Torah and prophets, right?

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Paul is reiterating the Torah and prophets and Y'shua, is he not? Nothing new here?

I see this verse often quoted:

Gal 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

But again, it is reiterating from OT:

Neh 9:29 And testifiedst against them, that thou mightest bring them again unto thy law: yet they dealt proudly, and hearkened not unto thy commandments, but sinned against thy judgments, (which if a man do, he shall live in them;) and withdrew the shoulder, and hardened their neck, and would not hear.

Why? Because there are curses in the law for not being obedient:

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

I have seen here a discussion that the law which has curses for disobedience has become the law is a curse. That would not be a true statement. Why?

Deu 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
Deu 30:2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
Deu 30:3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.

They were cursed and taken into captivity for disobeying the law, not for keeping it. Since we know God neither changes nor will He lie, that scripture still stands today.

Again, God does not change nor does He lie:

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

Jos 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Did the Torah or "law" ever make someone not prosperous or to have good success? Yes! If the law is not used properly.

1Ti_1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

So how does one use the law lawfully? AGain, the fuller answer is from Torah.

Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

That is God's Law and not Law of Moses.

God will not be mocked, rest assured. Gal_6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Jud_1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Many have been "spoiled" by this false teaching that Christ did away with anything of the Torah. Believing God did not require the law to be written on their hearts, therefore they could not achieve obedience. Some were able and it was counted to them as righteousness.

David had the law written on his heart. Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Do you see that? Delighting to do God's will is equal to the law being written on my heart.

I had to start somewhere in this walk of understanding. It started when I obeyed the Sabbath commandment. And from there, well just like those disciples in Acts: Act_5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

They didn't say that they obeyed Jesus' new commandments, no, God gives the Holy Ghose (oil fuel for our lamps - think ten virgin parable) to those who obey him.

As a matter of fact, all of the parables can be perfectly understood if you properly use the law lawfully. ie...keep my commandments and my commandments are not grievous, says our Lord Jesus. His commandments are not doing away with any of of God's laws, He came to fully preach and teach the Torah so that we could understand it correctly, not to do away with it.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

I think what it may be is that the above verse can be mistaken if read to contain a scornful tone. For example, as if it were saying, "you will live in your misery."
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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If they didn't need a basement the contractor should have never built one.:p
Well the CONTRACTOR did build one for temporary use, but some still persist in making it their permanent dwelling. :cool:
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

I think what it may be is that the above verse can be mistaken if read to contain a scornful tone. For example, as if it were saying, "you will live in your misery."
It's just that our source for life is not by trying to live the law but our walk is by faith...

Certainly all who depend on the actions of the Law are under a curse. For it is written, "A curse on everyone who does not obey everything that is written in the Book of the Law!" Now it is obvious that no one is justified in the sight of God by the Law, because "The righteous will live by faith." But the Law has nothing to do with faith. Instead, "The person who keeps the commandments will have life in them." The Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the Law by becoming a curse for us. For it is written, "A curse on everyone who is hung on a tree!" This happened in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the gentiles through the Messiah Jesus, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:10-14) (ISV)

or compare

For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one who continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law, to do them. Now that no man is justified by the law before God, is evident: for, The righteous shall live by faith; and the law is not of faith; but, He that doeth them shall live in them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: that upon the Gentiles might come the blessing of Abraham in Christ Jesus; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
(Gal 3:10-14)
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Just because a house needs a foundation doesn't mean the residents have to live in the basement. :)
If they didn't need a basement the contractor should have never built one.:p
Well the CONTRACTOR did build one for temporary use, but some still persist in making it their permanent dwelling. :cool:
Then we agree that if the basement is destroyed the house will fall down and also be destroyed. Just because we see the necessity of the basement doesn't mean we are living in it. I'm sure the prophets were looking forward to having the house completed through our Messiah, the same as we are thankful that we have an advocate with our Father in heaven with a warranty for the dwelling He has constructed step by step according to the plan.
 
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