The Keys to the Kingdom

[Wansvic]

What say you to RC water baptism? Saved or not?

By RC, I take it you mean the Roman Catholic way of water baptizing in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. If so, there is not one occurrence recorded in the Word when people spoke the titles over one submitting to water baptism. The Word states that an established concept requires 2-3 other witnesses; every record shows the use of Jesus' name. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16 Paul) Upon consideration of these scripture references, I do not see following something started by the Roman Empire in 325 a.d. as being valid.

Historical records show that the name of Jesus Christ was used from the apostolic era up until the Nicene Counsel when the religious leaders required the use of the titles. Why? I contend that it is because there is authority and power in the name of Jesus. Remove the all powerful name and authority of Jesus and one is left with a useless man-made tradition.

The Word tells us to earnestly seek out what the saints/apostles initially did to understand concepts of the common salvation. (Jude 3)

The stated issues prompted me to be re-baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. I had submitted to a baptism utilizing the titles prior to seeing the biblical record that used Jesus' name consistently and opted to be obedient to that not a Roman Catholic tradition.

The Word is consistent regarding water baptism as a requirement for the New Testament church.

 

[Wansvic]

Keep trying dude, Your as hard as the jews who were insisting men had to be circumcized to be saved. Thats why Paul told us plainly we were spiritually circumcized by the hand of God. Through baptism of the holy spirit.

What saved us was the blood of the cross. It has washed us white as snow.

As for what jesus said, it goes for ANY WORK.

Paul said NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, He did not say except for the work of water baptism. And he specifially mentioned the baptism of the spirit.

Rom 6 is spirit baptism. No water can immerse you into christ his death or his burial. ONLY God can do this.

The pharisee tried to say God did his miracles by satan, Your saying we are washed by man. Both are saying the work of the HS is attributed to someone other than him, What did jesus say the danger of that was?

Yes. You should be scared my friend.

Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter 3:20-21
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Yep, Thank you, I love it when you all bring this verse up with your perverted interpretation.

Like figure. In other words, IT IS NOT THE ACTUALLY THING WHICH DOES IT.

The waters of the flood was a figure of Christ removing his children out and saving them from his wrath

Water baptism is a LIKE FIGURE which also symbolises us being immersed by God into his blood (the cross) where our sins are washed away

And just do people like you did not misunderstand him

He makes it clear. WATER BAPTISM DOES NOT REMOVE FILTH (the filth of sin) FROM OUR FLESH (Our souls)

What is water baptism? THE ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIOUS to god by being obedient to him, (which I have doen by the way) It is the RESSURECTION of CHrist which saved us, NOT water baptism , which is A LIKE FIGURE just as the WATERS of the flood was.

 

[Wansvic]

John had a reason to baptize with water, what's your reason?

Because it is commanded in the Word and submitted to by Jews, Gentiles, Samaritans, Paul, disciples in Ephesus, the Ethiopian, the jailer and his family.

Prior to Jesus ascension He commanded it be done throughout all nations; of which there are 195 nations in the World today:

Go ye therefore, and teach ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20

 

[notuptome]

Because it is commanded in the Word and submitted to by Jews, Gentiles, Samaritans, Paul, disciples in Ephesus, the Ethiopian, the jailer and his family.

Prior to Jesus ascension He commanded it be done throughout all nations; of which there are 195 nations in the World today:

Go ye therefore, and teach ALL nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matt 28:19-20

Why do you assume that Mat 28 is speaking of water baptism?

Why do you not see that the great commission is to teach Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Savior sent by God? We are to immerse them in the truth of Gods word which will make them wise unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

Yep, Thank you, I love it when you all bring this verse up with your perverted interpretation.

Like figure. In other words, IT IS NOT THE ACTUALLY THING WHICH DOES IT.

The waters of the flood was a figure of Christ removing his children out and saving them from his wrath

Water baptism is a LIKE FIGURE which also symbolises us being immersed by God into his blood (the cross) where our sins are washed away

And just do people like you did not misunderstand him

He makes it clear. WATER BAPTISM DOES NOT REMOVE FILTH (the filth of sin) FROM OUR FLESH (Our souls)

What is water baptism? THE ANSWER OF A GOOD CONSCIOUS to god by being obedient to him, (which I have doen by the way) It is the RESSURECTION of CHrist which saved us, NOT water baptism , which is A LIKE FIGURE just as the WATERS of the flood was.

How is it you, a "spirit filled" Christian, find it necessary to belittle rather than politely share your view of bible concepts.

God's Word means what it says. Water baptism is a like figure/antitype. An antitype is the real thing. God uses the natural to accomplish the spiritual.

 

[Wansvic]

Why do you assume that Mat 28 is speaking of water baptism?

Why do you not see that the great commission is to teach Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Savior sent by God? We are to immerse them in the truth of Gods word which will make them wise unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

The witness of the Word is one's confirmation.

 

[Wansvic]

Why do you assume that Mat 28 is speaking of water baptism?

Why do you not see that the great commission is to teach Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the Savior sent by God? We are to immerse them in the truth of Gods word which will make them wise unto salvation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

God does not administer water baptism. Man does.
Man does not baptize with the Holy Ghost. God does.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How is it you, a "spirit filled" Christian, find it necessary to belittle rather than politely share your view of bible concepts.

God's Word means what it says. Water baptism is a like figure/antitype. An antitype is the real thing. God uses the natural to accomplish the spiritual.

Why is it you have to continue to ignore what everyone else says, and continue to make scripture say what it does not say.

How many times in scripture does it say, Believe and you will be saved. Where the word baptise is not used, Not suggested, or not anything? Did god lie in all those passages or forget to add the word baptize?

You want to few places where you THINK it says what it does not to make a different gospel out of a passage.

Let me ask you a question. Since the law was our tutor to lead us to salvation. And according to the law. No one could save themselves (because all have sinned and fall short) And the ONLY thing according to the law which symbolised remission of sin or atonment was the sacrifice and bulls and goats. How do you think you allowing yourself to be immersed or dunked in water has anything to do with your forgiveness?

God said the penalty of sin is death, If this is so. Then is not the ONLY thing which can redeem or pay for those sins death?

Where in the bible does it say the penalty of sin is to die and be baptised? Can you show me that passage?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God does not administer water baptism. Man does.

YES!!!! Thats WHY IT CAN NOT SAVE, OR WASH ONE SIN AWAY!)

Man does not baptize with the Holy Ghost. God does.

YES!! THATS WHY THIS IS THE ONLY BAPTISM WHICH CAN SAVE!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The witness of the Word is one's confirmation.

Yes1

As jesus said.

He who believes IS not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already!

Baptism or lack of baptism in water has no bearing on ones eternal state,

There will be many who got baptized who will not see heaven, And there will be many who never had an opportunity to be baptized who will spend eternity in heaven. Those are the fact. Not suggestions.

 

[Wansvic]

Why is it you have to continue to ignore what everyone else says, and continue to make scripture say what it does not say.

How many times in scripture does it say, Believe and you will be saved. Where the word baptise is not used, Not suggested, or not anything? Did god lie in all those passages or forget to add the word baptize?

You want to few places where you THINK it says what it does not to make a different gospel out of a passage.

Let me ask you a question. Since the law was our tutor to lead us to salvation. And according to the law. No one could save themselves (because all have sinned and fall short) And the ONLY thing according to the law which symbolised remission of sin or atonment was the sacrifice and bulls and goats. How do you think you allowing yourself to be immersed or dunked in water has anything to do with your forgiveness?

God said the penalty of sin is death, If this is so. Then is not the ONLY thing which can redeem or pay for those sins death?

Where in the bible does it say the penalty of sin is to die and be baptised? Can you show me that passage?

It would be foolish to believe that repentance is not a factor in salvation; however, not every scripture includes that fact. We compile what scriptures say to do and do them. For it is God's good pleasure to conceal a thing and a king's to search it out.

 

[notuptome]

The witness of the Word is one's confirmation.

God does not administer water baptism. Man does.
Man does not baptize with the Holy Ghost. God does.

Fails to answer the question. While all three statements are truthful they do not relate to the question of why you suppose that Mat 28 is speaking of water baptism?

In English we have statements like "immersed in one's work" that would appear in the Greek just like Mat 28.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Wansvic]

YES!!!! Thats WHY IT CAN NOT SAVE, OR WASH ONE SIN AWAY!)



YES!! THATS WHY THIS IS THE ONLY BAPTISM WHICH CAN SAVE!

What is done in the spiritual realm due to man's obedience to God in the natural realm is done by God and God alone.

 

[Wansvic]

Fails to answer the question. While all three statements are truthful they do not relate to the question of why you suppose that Mat 28 is speaking of water baptism?

In English we have statements like "immersed in one's work" that would appear in the Greek just like Mat 28.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

It is water baptism, look it up in the Greek.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It would be foolish to believe that repentance is not a factor in salvation;

I never said otherwise now did I?

Yet repentance is not a work. So trying to compair a change of ones mind to a physical act or religious ceremony is quite foolish.

however, not every scripture includes that fact. We compile what scriptures say to do and do them. For it is God's good pleasure to conceal a thing and a king's to search it out.

Considering the fact that NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE can have true living faith in christ while they are still in denial of the true gospel. And are still

1. Denying they need saved
2. Trying to save themselves by their own righteous works.

it does nto have to say repent each time.. Because EVERYONE who has already repented.

But to say people who believe has AUTOMATICALLY been baptised by this time, thus we can ASSUME they are saved because they believed and baptised?

Once again. As said above, it would be a foolish thought.

 

[notuptome]

It is water baptism, look it up in the Greek.

Not really. It has been long standing church dogma but the Greek does not specify water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What is done in the spiritual realm due to man's obedience to God in the natural realm is done by God and God alone.

Yep

Thats why Paul’s letter to the Collossians is so important.

It is the work of GOD! Not LEGALISM (works of the flesh) which save us!!

Paul, Speaking to ALL who have been saved. Not just then, but even today!

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Our spiritual cleansing was performed by the circumcision done without the hands of men, BY the circumcision of Christ.

In order for this to be true, WE TOO have to literally DIE or PARTAKE of the circumcision of Christ. WHich paul said we have done as follows!


12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

IT IS THE WORK OF GOD who has BAPTIZED (immersed, or place you into his BURIAL and has RISEN YOU TO NEW LIFE. Not some pastor who IMMERSED you in WATER. ONLY God has the power to do this.

paul did not say we were circumcised, not by the hand of men, but by God. Through the work of MAN immersing you in water. He would be contradicting himself.

So wat does a person recieve when they are spiritually circumcised through the baptism of the spirit? (Not water)

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

You see, through spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit. We who were DEAD, are not MADE ALIVE, have ALLK OUR SINS FORGIVEN, and the things in the law which condemned us? They have been taken out of the way, How? They were NAILED to the cross.

it is your BAPTISM into Christ which saved you and causes remission of sin, Not a baptism in water. I pray you see this soon, Very soon! Because your attributing the work of God to the work of mere men!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not really. It has been long standing church dogma but the Greek does not specify water baptism.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Really where?

Jesus told them to go MAKE DISCIPLES. And AFTER YOU have made a true born again disciple. (They have been saved) Baptize them in the name of the father son and spirit. (Also known as believers baptism)

Sorry, But I have never in my life heard that this was not water baptism.

 

[Wansvic]

Yep

Thats why Paul’s letter to the Collossians is so important.

It is the work of GOD! Not LEGALISM (works of the flesh) which save us!!

Paul, Speaking to ALL who have been saved. Not just then, but even today!

11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Our spiritual cleansing was performed by the circumcision done without the hands of men, BY the circumcision of Christ.

In order for this to be true, WE TOO have to literally DIE or PARTAKE of the circumcision of Christ. WHich paul said we have done as follows!


12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

IT IS THE WORK OF GOD who has BAPTIZED (immersed, or place you into his BURIAL and has RISEN YOU TO NEW LIFE. Not some pastor who IMMERSED you in WATER. ONLY God has the power to do this.

paul did not say we were circumcised, not by the hand of men, but by God. Through the work of MAN immersing you in water. He would be contradicting himself.

So wat does a person recieve when they are spiritually circumcised through the baptism of the spirit? (Not water)

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

You see, through spiritual baptism of the Holy Spirit. We who were DEAD, are not MADE ALIVE, have ALLK OUR SINS FORGIVEN, and the things in the law which condemned us? They have been taken out of the way, How? They were NAILED to the cross.

it is your BAPTISM into Christ which saved you and causes remission of sin, Not a baptism in water. I pray you see this soon, Very soon! Because your attributing the work of God to the work of mere men!

Bottom line. Expressing what the bible says to do. I'm done.