The killer flaw in pre-tribulation rapture doctrine

[Evmur]

As I see it written in the Bible, the Sheep/goats is at the beginning of the 1000 years, and the GWTJ after the 1000 years.

Jesus comes, regathers Israel to her promised land, then gathers the nations and judges them, only allowing the gentiles which helped Israel to remain, sending away the rest. The gathered Jews, and righteous gentiles will go on to live in the kingdom.

Much love!

there are not 2 final judgements when the King will come and sit upon His glorious throne Matt: 25. When ALL nations will be gathered before Him and given their final destination.

It is called the resurrection of the living and the dead. There are 2 sorts of people there.

In the GWT judgement which is the same as the sheep and goats, there is only one final judgement, there are 2 sorts of people, there are those whose names are not in the book of life and there are those whose names are not in the book of life.

The living and the dead, the sheep and the goats.

As you say it is after the 1, 000 years at the last day Matt. 25. AFTER the Bride has been wedded to her Lord, AFTER we have reigned with Him on high a 1, 000 years, AFTER the Jews have reigned with Him on earth a 1, 000 years. Therefore I say to you how can these being judged, whether sheep or goats be the church?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

there are not 2 final judgements when the King will come and sit upon His glorious throne Matt: 25. When ALL nations will be gathered before Him and given their final destination.

It is called the resurrection of the living and the dead. There are 2 sorts of people there.

No one is being "resurrected [from the dead]" in the Sheep and goat separation-judgment of the nationS.

It's a judgment at the end of the Trib years (of STILL-LIVING persons--of the "nationS [pl]") as to who will ENTER the earthly Millennial Kingdom age (and who WON'T).







[It corresponds with the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words of Isaiah 24:21-22[,23]--the FIRST one corresponding with "Rev19:19,21/16:14-16-Armageddon time-slot"; the SECOND "punish" word in this Isa text corresponding with the LATER "GWTj time-slot--Rev20:11-15"]


--There are something like 5-7 distinct judgments...

 

[AlwaysCurious]

Eight views on the RAPTURE and the Tribulation:

1. Pre-tribulation view
The rapture occurs before the 7 year tribulation period begins.
2. Partial-tribulation view
Not all believers will be raptured, only those who have some degree of spiritual attainment.
Unworthy Christians will be left behind during the tribulation.
3. Mid-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation period.
4. Post-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the end of the 7 year tribulation period.
5. Amillennial view
Amillennialists hold very different views. Most believe there is no Rapture.
They negate the supernatural aspects of the book of Revelation because they see most of it as allegorical teaching.
6. Indignant-tribber view
These people think that debating eschatology is always wrong and divisive.
They wag their fingers at the rest of us. “Shame, shame, shame!”
7. Independent thinkers
Disagree with all the viewpoints listed above. They only, interpret the scriptures correctly.
Could they really be the smartest people on the planet?
8. Undecided
These people come to forums like this hoping to gain insight and understanding.

So many flavours, so much confusion, so here is my suggestion:
For transparency we could declare our bias within our “signatures”.
(“Staunch Pre-Trib, Dispensationalist”, “Proudly Independent”, etc.)
This would make it so much easier to identify friends/foes and expedite the formation of “tag teams” (similar to pro-wrestling).

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

there are not 2 final judgements when the King will come and sit upon His glorious throne Matt: 25. When ALL nations will be gathered before Him and [...]

Consider the corresponding TIME-FRAME of both of the following passages:

--Matthew 25:31-34 (your passage) - "When the Son of man shall come in his glory... then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..."
This is an earthly-located throne... where "all the nations" (existing on the earth at that time) will be gathered "before him" (again, not referring to persons who've DIED, in this context);


--Matthew 19:28 (see also Lk22:30), "... in the regeneration WHEN the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, YE ALSO [the 12] shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel" (in an ongoing "governing" sense of the word--that is, in the EARTHLY MK age)





The "Sheep" of the Sheep and goats separation-judgment will ENTER the MK age in their MORTAL BODIES (this separation-judgment of the nationS is of "STILL-LIVING" persons of the nationS AFTER His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 [FOR the earthly MK age])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

As you say it is after the 1, 000 years at the last day

Consider:

--the phrase "IN the LAST DAY" refers NOT to "a singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"...

... but refers rather to the 7th "MILLENNIUM" (THAT kind of 'Day')... so "IN" THAT.





So there is no passage of Scripture that is referencing (specifically) "the last 24-hr day" (that kind of 'day')... worded that way. Meaning, the biblical phrase "in the last day" does NOT refer to "a singular 24-hr day" the last of those.







[Hosea 5:14-6:3 speaks to the matter of the THREE 'days' which follow His ascension point-in-time, of the chronology--also NOT being "24-hr-day" kind of "days" being spoken of here in this context; So there are "TWO days" (Hosea 6:2) and "IN the THIRD day" (aka the 7th Millennium--or what we call the [future] Millennial Kingdom age [the 1000 years]... what Jn12:32 calls "the age [singular] to come")]

 

[Evmur]

Consider:

--the phrase "IN the LAST DAY" refers NOT to "a singular 24-hr day" kind of "day"...

... but refers rather to the 7th "MILLENNIUM" (THAT kind of 'Day')... so "IN" THAT.





So there is no passage of Scripture that is referencing (specifically) "the last 24-hr day" (that kind of 'day')... worded that way. Meaning, the biblical phrase "in the last day" does NOT refer to "a singular 24-hr day" the last of those.







[Hosea 5:14-6:3 speaks to the matter of the THREE 'days' which follow His ascension point-in-time, of the chronology--also NOT being "24-hr-day" kind of "days" being spoken of here in this context; So there are "TWO days" (Hosea 6:2) and "IN the THIRD day" (aka the 7th Millennium--or what we call the [future] Millennial Kingdom age [the 1000 years]... what Jn12:32 calls "the age [singular] to come")]

The last judgement comes at the end of the 1, 000 years.

 

[Evmur]

Consider the corresponding TIME-FRAME of both of the following passages:

--Matthew 25:31-34 (your passage) - "When the Son of man shall come in his glory... then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory..."
This is an earthly-located throne... where "all the nations" (existing on the earth at that time) will be gathered "before him" (again, not referring to persons who've DIED, in this context);


--Matthew 19:28 (see also Lk22:30), "... in the regeneration WHEN the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, YE ALSO [the 12] shall sit upon twelve thrones, judgING the twelve tribes of Israel" (in an ongoing "governing" sense of the word--that is, in the EARTHLY MK age)





The "Sheep" of the Sheep and goats separation-judgment will ENTER the MK age in their MORTAL BODIES (this separation-judgment of the nationS is of "STILL-LIVING" persons of the nationS AFTER His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 [FOR the earthly MK age])

They are the same judgement, There is only one last judgement where eternal destinies are decided.

 

[Evmur]

No one is being "resurrected [from the dead]" in the Sheep and goat separation-judgment of the nationS.

It's a judgment at the end of the Trib years (of STILL-LIVING persons--of the "nationS [pl]") as to who will ENTER the earthly Millennial Kingdom age (and who WON'T).







[It corresponds with the FIRST of the TWO "PUNISH" words of Isaiah 24:21-22[,23]--the FIRST one corresponding with "Rev19:19,21/16:14-16-Armageddon time-slot"; the SECOND "punish" word in this Isa text corresponding with the LATER "GWTj time-slot--Rev20:11-15"]


--There are something like 5-7 distinct judgments...

your opinion not mine.