The King James Bible

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Jul 23, 2017
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Sure. When the original languages can express some thought by fewer words (for example by inclination or different forms for various persons) and the language it is translated to does not have such rules and must use more words to render the same meaning.

But it is not the case here. The word "unknown" does not have to be added from any grammatical reason. You can check in other English translations. The idea of "unknown" simply is not in the Greek text.
ok. i dont know about that and i wasnt arguing for the word being or not being there.

i just said in general that thats why words are added.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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if you knew her, you wouldn't say things like this.
You may be correct. I'm just going by what she posts. If she knew me, she wouldn't degrade me the way she does. She seems to have a holier than thou attitude and continually brags about her education as if education makes her more qualified. Scripture says otherwise concerning education.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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You may be correct. I'm just going by what she posts. If she knew me, she wouldn't degrade me the way she does. She seems to have a holier than thou attitude and continually brags about her education as if education makes her more qualified. Scripture says otherwise concerning education.
i am very sorry you feel degraded.

i'm not aware Scripture speaks poorly of education? i can cite a wealth of verses that laud knowledge, though i imagine you're referring to 1 Cor 8? which, i believe, we should take in context. and, of course, knowledge without love is not good.
but what drives Angela is love. i understand it may not seem like it, because you don't know her. i do, and i believe with all my heart it distresses her to see people trapped in bondage. if you glance at her post history, you will see it. :)

you know... the knowledge she has gained from study actually does make her more qualified to speak to the subject.
not that i'm her apologist, but i have the privilege of calling her my friend, and i love her.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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i am very sorry you feel degraded.

i'm not aware Scripture speaks poorly of education? i can cite a wealth of verses that laud knowledge, though i imagine you're referring to 1 Cor 8? which, i believe, we should take in context. and, of course, knowledge without love is not good.
but what drives Angela is love. i understand it may not seem like it, because you don't know her. i do, and i believe with all my heart it distresses her to see people trapped in bondage. if you glance at her post history, you will see it. :)

you know... the knowledge she has gained from study actually does make her more qualified to speak to the subject.
not that i'm her apologist, but i have the privilege of calling her my friend, and i love her.
Even though I know its not the goal of Angela, stressing of one´s education can seem like trying to get more authority than others without such "formal" education.

While apostles were fishermen, without any higher education.

It really helps to get education, good sources, good teachers. Nothing against that.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
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Even though I know its not the goal of Angela, stressing of one´s education can seem like trying to get more authority than others without such "formal" education.

While apostles were fishermen, without any higher education.

It really helps to get education, good sources, good teachers. Nothing against that.
i'm so glad our pastor has been educated in the Bible's original languages. he's able to teach things i would never see, otherwise. and i'm grateful for you, and others here who have learned them.

i would so much rather be making dinner for my neighbor with cancer :)(), or watching a young mother's children so she can rest. a very simple woman, me. :eek:
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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i'm so glad our pastor has been educated in the Bible's original languages. he's able to teach things i would never see, otherwise. and i'm grateful for you, and others here who have learned them.

i would so much rather be making dinner for my neighbor with cancer :)(), or watching a young mother's children so she can rest. a very simple woman, me. :eek:
We will be judged by what we have done, not by if we have learned Greek.

So I am quite sure you will be fine.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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We will be judged by what we have done, not by if we have learned Greek.

So I am quite sure you will be fine.
Amen. We all need to self check in this area. What are we doing to help our brethren in need? What are we doing to win the lost to Jesus Christ? Are we helping the next generation to seek the Lord?
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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You may be correct. I'm just going by what she posts. If she knew me, she wouldn't degrade me the way she does. She seems to have a holier than thou attitude and continually brags about her education as if education makes her more qualified. Scripture says otherwise concerning education.
With all due respect sir, you come at people with condescension and a smug arrogance in your KJVO cultic spirit.

Your take is to present yourself as more spiritual, "one of the few who really believes God", "one of the few who really has God's word", and pride yourself in your ignorance of not "being learned." It is mocking others, taunting, and self-righteous.

You are a divisive person who sows discord with your idolatrous views on a Bible version while condemning others in the process. You will stand and give an account of this behavior before God, this divisiveness and idolatry about a version, which is idolatry as that is your main source and objective; not preaching Christ, but the "KJB." The "KJB" is your idol and that is a sad fact.

I however do pray God opens your eyes and sets you free.

Concerning your last bit above, Scripture doesn't say otherwise about education as you state, in fact Scripture pleads with us to gain knowledge, and specifically learning from others, and not remain babes. Your take is just showing your bias towards education, knowledge &c as with many KJVO'ers "ignorance" is worshiped and lauded, yet, it comes across as prideful and arrogant, a stench of the flesh to be frank.

You can get your last word in, not going to argue with you, you do need to take a long God look at yourself.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Amen. We all need to self check in this area. What are we doing to help our brethren in need? What are we doing to win the lost to Jesus Christ? Are we helping the next generation to seek the Lord?
But in the same way... we will be judged by neither if we learned Greek nor if we used the KJV ;-)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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With all due respect sir, you come at people with condescension and a smug arrogance in your KJVO cultic spirit.

Your take is to present yourself as more spiritual, "one of the few who really believes God", "one of the few who really has God's word", and pride yourself in your ignorance of not "being learned." It is mocking others, taunting, and self-righteous.

You are a divisive person who sows discord with your idolatrous views on a Bible version while condemning others in the process. You will stand and give an account of this behavior before God, this divisiveness and idolatry about a version, which is idolatry as that is your main source and objective; not preaching Christ, but the "KJB." The "KJB" is your idol and that is a sad fact.

I however do pray God opens your eyes and sets you free.

Concerning your last bit above, Scripture doesn't say otherwise about education as you state, in fact Scripture pleads with us to gain knowledge, and specifically learning from others, and not remain babes. Your take is just showing your bias towards education, knowledge &c as with many KJVO'ers "ignorance" is worshiped and lauded, yet, it comes across as prideful and arrogant, a stench of the flesh to be frank.

You can get your last word in, not going to argue with you, you do need to take a long God look at yourself.
I have never degraded someone or judged their salvation. I apologize sincerely if I have come across smug or arrogant. That's not me at all. I have never condemned others, I just want people to see the truth that God has fulfilled his promise to preserve His pure words for us in the KJV. I don't idolize the KJV. That's your attempt to downgrade me. My eyes are very much opened and I read and study the word without correcting it. We are to gain knowledge through Scripture, not formal education.
 
Jul 23, 2017
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58 pages give it up. if ur kjvonlyist u have been tricked.

read what the translators said themselves, they agree that it can be improved upon.

i have this system that lets u click on verses and words. and u can see what it says in greek or hebrew. then u can click on different translations of it. how its translated and what it means. i have noticed that almost always the lexicons do agree. i checked out the key verses that kjvonly poeple always talk about and they are properly translated in nasb thats the translation i looked at because james white is on the translation team there.
solid bible for sure

this only works on people like me with no education in any field whatsoever. if ur a fisherman u will buy the kjvonly hook line and kitchensink.
i never questioned it because i made the mistake of comparing kjv to other english translations instead of to the greek.

lets stop dividing ourselves over this dumb stuff
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
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58 pages give it up. if ur kjvonlyist u have been tricked.

read what the translators said themselves, they agree that it can be improved upon.

i have this system that lets u click on verses and words. and u can see what it says in greek or hebrew. then u can click on different translations of it. how its translated and what it means. i have noticed that almost always the lexicons do agree. i checked out the key verses that kjvonly poeple always talk about and they are properly translated in nasb thats the translation i looked at because james white is on the translation team there.
solid bible for sure

this only works on people like me with no education in any field whatsoever. if ur a fisherman u will buy the kjvonly hook line and kitchensink.
i never questioned it because i made the mistake of comparing kjv to other english translations instead of to the greek.

lets stop dividing ourselves over this dumb stuff
Does this mean that, because they did not claim God's hand in translating the Scripture that He could not be or was not in control of their commission?

Did all the writers of Scripture know that what they were penning was God's holy word?
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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Does this mean that, because they did not claim God's hand in translating the Scripture that He could not be or was not in control of their commission?

Did all the writers of Scripture know that what they were penning was God's holy word?
Read Vulgate.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Does this mean that, because they did not claim God's hand in translating the Scripture that He could not be or was not in control of their commission?
This argument could be used of any translation.


... I just want people to see the truth that God has fulfilled his promise to preserve His pure words for us in the KJV.
You are free to believe this, but it is certainly not necessary for salvation, and it is demonstrably weak from several perspectives. You have adopted a very narrow interpretation of many passages of Scripture, of which most may be interpreted differently and validly.
 
Nov 24, 2017
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God preserved his words in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. His words were TRANSLATED into other languages like Latin, German, French and eventually English. These translations are NOT the inspired word. But, they do reveal Jesus.

You are so messed up, it is sad! Paul's private epistle to Timothy, is NOT the gospel. Yes, they are valuable words, in that they do tell us to use the OT to learn and grow. And they were inspired by God, for Paul to write down. You do know that the NT was not completely written, nor complied when Paul wrote this, rights? I do think you do not understand what the gospel even is! Someone posted recently "gospel" came from Old English, "god spell." Not so much! Here is the information you need to read, concerning what the gospel is all about.

"The term gospel is found ninety-nine times in the NASB and ninety-two times in the NET Bible. In the Greek New Testament, gospel is the translation of the Greek noun euangelion (occurring 76 times) “good news,” and the verb euangelizo (occurring 54 times), meaning “to bring or announce good news.” Both words are derived from the noun angelos, “messenger.” In classical Greek, an euangelos was one who brought a message of victory or other political or personal news that caused joy. In addition, euangelizomai (the middle voice form of the verb) meant “to speak as a messenger of gladness, to proclaim good news.”1 Further, the noun euangelion became a technical term for the message of victory, though it was also used for a political or private message that brought joy.

That both the noun and the verb are used so extensively in the New Testament demonstrate how it developed a distinctly Christian use and emphasis because of the glorious news announced to mankind of salvation and victory over sin and death that God offers to all people through the person and accomplished work of Jesus Christ on the cross as proven by His resurrection, ascension, and session at God’s right hand. In the New Testament these two words, euangelionand euangelizo, became technical terms for this message of good news offered to all men through faith in Christ.
The Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia summarizes the gospel message this way:
The central truth of the gospel is that God has provided a way of salvation for men through the gift of His son to the world. He suffered as a sacrifice for sin, overcame death, and now offers a share in His triumph to all who will accept it. The gospel is good news because it is a gift of God, not something that must be earned by penance or by self-improvement (Jn 3:16; Rom 5:8–11; II Cor 5:14–19; Tit 2:11–14).3
The Gospel in a Nutshell

In 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, the apostle Paul summarizes the most basic ingredients of the gospel message, namely, the death, burial, resurrection, and appearances of the resurrected Christ. Note the four clauses introduced by that in bold type in verses 3-5 below:
15:1 Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 15:3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received—that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 15:4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve…4
These verses, which were an early Christian confession, give us the heart of the gospel and show the that the resurrection is an integral part of the gospel. Note that Paul described this as “of first importance”—a phrase that stresses priority, not time. The stress is on the centrality of these truths to the gospel message.
Actually, the central ingredient of the gospel message is a two-fold confession: (1) Christ died for our sinsand (2) He was raised on the third day. The reality of these two elements can be verified by the Scriptures (cf. Ps. 16:10; Isa. 53:8-10) and by such awesome historical evidence as the empty tomb and the eye witnesses. Thus, the other two elements mentioned here accomplish two important facts regarding the gospel. The fact that He was buried verified His death, and the fact that He appeared to others verified His resurrection."

https://bible.org/article/what-gospel

So, you are wrong! The Bible is not about us, it is about Jesus! The Bible is not even about the Bible, but about Jesus. A book cannot save, Jesus does, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

PS Not even the slightest worry in my heart and mind, that I am not saved because I do not exalt a bad translation of the Bible. After 37 years of reading many versions of the Bible, and having studied the original languages, read up on manuscript evidence there is not a chance that I have missed anything. Sadly, can you say the same? You have basically missed Jesus, if this thread is any indication. The trouble is, and I don't say this to brag, is I have a much better education that you. I have not been deceived by cults and those who have never studied and compared manuscripts. There are many people here who understand about manuscript evidence, who have never been to seminary, of course! Many people! But, you are not one of those people.

You have fallen into a ditch. We have continually tried to pull you out, and yet, you persist in lying there, screaming "37, 37!" at anyone who passes by. I don't know if there is much more to say. Your heart is hard, and you are not willing to look at evidence contrary to your cultic, and bizarre beliefs.

I just pray you really are following Jesus, as you said many pages ago, and you will allow the Holy Spirit to heal you of this terrible obsession with numbers, and the KJV as being the "right" Bible. All translations, modern and older, provided they translated as best as they knew how, are profitable and useful for training, etc.
Your right, you do not exalt a translation of the Bible. You exalt yourself!
 
Nov 24, 2017
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Even though I know its not the goal of Angela, stressing of one´s education can seem like trying to get more authority than others without such "formal" education.

While apostles were fishermen, without any higher education.

It really helps to get education, good sources, good teachers. Nothing against that.
[FONT=&quot]“Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.” (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)[/FONT]
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
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[FONT="]“Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.” (1 Corinthians 3:18-20)[/FONT]
Nothing against that.

Education can mislead you. The lack of education can be misused by manipulators and liars.

God´s grace is needed always.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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Your right, you do not exalt a translation of the Bible. You exalt yourself!
You need to give it a rest, Sparky...

Angela is simply explaining, through legitimate, good study why your approach is "chasing after the wind". You've been brainwashed by a numbers charlatan, or you truly have some OCD kind of thing.

This is amazing... someone who has dedicated their life to learning more about scripture, from the oldest manuscripts extant, and wants to help clue all of us who have NOT given up years of our lives to be able to learn those ancient languages, a better insight into what was actually said by the authors of the word.... and you want to drag her down for it?

This is a classic example of dumbing down scriptural study through jealousy, or ignorance.

I suppose we should not believe the apostle Paul, then.... he was educated under Gamaliel, who was the most respected and revered rabbi of that age. Pretty much the equivalent of a double Phd from Harvard or Cambridge.