The King James Bible

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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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He did not say that who does not use KJV is loosing salvation or is going to hell.

He actually tried to say the opposite, but he was in a hurry or what so he corrupted the sentence so that it looked badly.

He corrected himself later and clarified it.

I don't know PH! I'm going with Willie's Freudian slip! It may be the teaching of a man, but sometimes, with observation and experience, people can codify things that happen over and over again. They are not absolute truths, but they are a kind of truth.

To say nothing of the fact that the Bible simply doesn't deal with every single thing that goes on in the world. The goal of the Bible is to reveal Jesus. Things outside of that purview or purpose are still valid to study, and draw conclusions about.

To keep it simple!

Knowing Jesus is what the Bible is all about. Anything that distracts from that purpose is really anti-God, or anti-Christ!
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. (Romans 14:19)

yes.

so are you able to learn anything from this?


consider A = {a[SUB]1[/SUB], a[SUB]2[/SUB], a[SUB]3[/SUB], ... } and B = {b[SUB]1[/SUB], b[SUB]2[/SUB], b[SUB]3[/SUB], ...}
such that b[SUB]i[/SUB] = o[SUP]i[/SUP](a[SUB]i[/SUB]), i = 1..|A|,
for bounded operators {o[SUP]1[/SUP], o[SUP]2[/SUP], o[SUP]3[/SUP], ...}

suppose F is a continuous, bounded function F: B → C
then i, F(b[SUB]i[/SUB]) = F(o[SUP]i[/SUP](a[SUB]i[/SUB]))
therefore there exists a continuous, bounded function G: A → C, G = F
ω,
where
ω is defined by {o[SUP]i[/SUP]}, i



((if that makes sense))

. . .

some things you want to know is if G is
bijective, if it's unique, and what measures are preserved under it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,834
13,194
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Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. (Romans 14:19)
He did not say that who does not use KJV is loosing salvation or is going to hell.

He actually tried to say the opposite, but he was in a hurry or what so he corrupted the sentence so that it looked badly.

He corrected himself later and clarified it.
the question becomes whether we should be unwaveringly loyal to the first translation of his inspiration into English, if we would be forming false doctrine by using his revised message, all questions of accuracy of transmission notwithstanding.

let's count how many words he said in each and then we can decide based on which numbers are easier to find a mathematical relationship to the number 7 with ((details of how we manipulate the text to come up with an expression that includes the digit 7 being wholly unimportant - just so long as we get some kind of 7 eventually)). seem legit?
 
Feb 7, 2015
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I don't know PH! I'm going with Willie's Freudian slip! It may be the teaching of a man, but sometimes, with observation and experience, people can codify things that happen over and over again. They are not absolute truths, but they are a kind of truth.

To say nothing of the fact that the Bible simply doesn't deal with every single thing that goes on in the world. The goal of the Bible is to reveal Jesus. Things outside of that purview or purpose are still valid to study, and draw conclusions about.

To keep it simple!

Knowing Jesus is what the Bible is all about. Anything that distracts from that purpose is really anti-God, or anti-Christ!
.... and might have been planted by a superior force to create even more confusion at a critical time in history when computers run so much of our lives.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,770
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I don't know PH! I'm going with Willie's Freudian slip! It may be the teaching of a man, but sometimes, with observation and experience, people can codify things that happen over and over again. They are not absolute truths, but they are a kind of truth.

To say nothing of the fact that the Bible simply doesn't deal with every single thing that goes on in the world. The goal of the Bible is to reveal Jesus. Things outside of that purview or purpose are still valid to study, and draw conclusions about.

To keep it simple!

Knowing Jesus is what the Bible is all about. Anything that distracts from that purpose is really anti-God, or anti-Christ!
Purpose of Scripture Angela. You're vast wisdom and knowledge of the Greek language is making you forget.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

What if we are right Angela? What if the KJV is the preserved perfect pure words of God? You have a lot to account for. Ever read what happens when one adds to or takes away from the words of God?

And what if we're wrong? We are guilty of believing that the same God who gave us His words was not able to preserve them in the English language.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
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Purpose of Scripture Angela. You're vast wisdom and knowledge of the Greek language is making you forget.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

What if we are right Angela? What if the KJV is the preserved perfect pure words of God? You have a lot to account for. Ever read what happens when one adds to or takes away from the words of God?

And what if we're wrong? We are guilty of believing that the same God who gave us His words was not able to preserve them in the English language.

God preserved his words in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew. His words were TRANSLATED into other languages like Latin, German, French and eventually English. These translations are NOT the inspired word. But, they do reveal Jesus.

You are so messed up, it is sad! Paul's private epistle to Timothy, is NOT the gospel. Yes, they are valuable words, in that they do tell us to use the OT to learn and grow. And they were inspired by God, for Paul to write down. You do know that the NT was not completely written, nor complied when Paul wrote this, rights? I do think you do not understand what the gospel even is! Someone posted recently "gospel" came from Old English, "god spell." Not so much! Here is the information you need to read, concerning what the gospel is all about.

"The term gospel is found ninety-nine times in the NASB and ninety-two times in the NET Bible. In the Greek New Testament, gospel is the translation of the Greek noun euangelion (occurring 76 times) “good news,” and the verb euangelizo (occurring 54 times), meaning “to bring or announce good news.” Both words are derived from the noun angelos, “messenger.” In classical Greek, an euangelos was one who brought a message of victory or other political or personal news that caused joy. In addition, euangelizomai (the middle voice form of the verb) meant “to speak as a messenger of gladness, to proclaim good news.”1 Further, the noun euangelion became a technical term for the message of victory, though it was also used for a political or private message that brought joy.

That both the noun and the verb are used so extensively in the New Testament demonstrate how it developed a distinctly Christian use and emphasis because of the glorious news announced to mankind of salvation and victory over sin and death that God offers to all people through the person and accomplished work of Jesus Christ on the cross as proven by His resurrection, ascension, and session at God’s right hand. In the New Testament these two words, euangelionand euangelizo, became technical terms for this message of good news offered to all men through faith in Christ.
The Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia summarizes the gospel message this way:
The central truth of the gospel is that God has provided a way of salvation for men through the gift of His son to the world. He suffered as a sacrifice for sin, overcame death, and now offers a share in His triumph to all who will accept it. The gospel is good news because it is a gift of God, not something that must be earned by penance or by self-improvement (Jn 3:16; Rom 5:8–11; II Cor 5:14–19; Tit 2:11–14).3
[h=3]The Gospel in a Nutshell[/h]In 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, the apostle Paul summarizes the most basic ingredients of the gospel message, namely, the death, burial, resurrection, and appearances of the resurrected Christ. Note the four clauses introduced by that in bold type in verses 3-5 below:
15:1 Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 15:3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received—that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 15:4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, 15:5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve…4
These verses, which were an early Christian confession, give us the heart of the gospel and show the that the resurrection is an integral part of the gospel. Note that Paul described this as “of first importance”—a phrase that stresses priority, not time. The stress is on the centrality of these truths to the gospel message.
Actually, the central ingredient of the gospel message is a two-fold confession: (1) Christ died for our sins and (2) He was raised on the third day. The reality of these two elements can be verified by the Scriptures (cf. Ps. 16:10; Isa. 53:8-10) and by such awesome historical evidence as the empty tomb and the eye witnesses. Thus, the other two elements mentioned here accomplish two important facts regarding the gospel. The fact that He was buried verified His death, and the fact that He appeared to others verified His resurrection."

https://bible.org/article/what-gospel

So, you are wrong! The Bible is not about us, it is about Jesus! The Bible is not even about the Bible, but about Jesus. A book cannot save, Jesus does, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

PS Not even the slightest worry in my heart and mind, that I am not saved because I do not exalt a bad translation of the Bible. After 37 years of reading many versions of the Bible, and having studied the original languages, read up on manuscript evidence there is not a chance that I have missed anything. Sadly, can you say the same? You have basically missed Jesus, if this thread is any indication. The trouble is, and I don't say this to brag, is I have a much better education that you. I have not been deceived by cults and those who have never studied and compared manuscripts. There are many people here who understand about manuscript evidence, who have never been to seminary, of course! Many people! But, you are not one of those people.

You have fallen into a ditch. We have continually tried to pull you out, and yet, you persist in lying there, screaming "37, 37!" at anyone who passes by. I don't know if there is much more to say. Your heart is hard, and you are not willing to look at evidence contrary to your cultic, and bizarre beliefs.

I just pray you really are following Jesus, as you said many pages ago, and you will allow the Holy Spirit to heal you of this terrible obsession with numbers, and the KJV as being the "right" Bible. All translations, modern and older, provided they translated as best as they knew how, are profitable and useful for training, etc.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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"πᾶσα γραφὴ θεόπνευστος καὶ ὠφέλιμος πρὸς διδασκαλίαν, πρὸς ἐλεγμόν, πρὸς ἐπανόρθωσιν, πρὸς παιδείαν τὴν ἐν δικαιοσύνῃ, 17 ἵνα ἄρτιος ᾖ ὁ τοῦ θεοῦ ἄνθρωπος, πρὸς πᾶν ἔργον ἀγαθὸν ἐξηρτισμένος." 2 Tim. 3:16-17

This is that passage in Koine Greek. I can read it, and the KJV is no where mentioned in the Greek above, not by any stretch of the imagination! Well, in fact, it does not mention any translationin English, German, French, Chinese, etc, either.

The Bible is for all people, not just those with an older translation, which I do not understand, because I have never studied King James/Elizabethan English. God led people to study the original languages, to compare the manuscript evidence, and to translate to a language people understand. That is why I will NEVER read a KJV again, except to compare it to Greek, and show where the KJV is not a good translation, to say nothing of all the places the KJV conflates the text, because it used 7 very late corrupted manuscripts as the basis of the NT.

So, James, are you afraid of losing your salvation, if you read a modern translation? What a terrible cult that has brainwashed you like this!
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,843
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What if we are right Angela? What if the KJV is the preserved perfect pure words of God? You have a lot to account for. Ever read what happens when one adds to or takes away from the words of God?
Is the word "unknown" in 1 Corinthians 14:2 and 4 one of the "exact words of all God's truth"?
For the English language? Absolutely!
John146, you have just committed hypocrisy. Earlier you agreed that the words added to 1 Corinthians 14 are now "scripture", yet now you warn us not to add to scripture.

You really need to think through your position.
 
Feb 28, 2016
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be assured, that whatever our Saviour has for every one of us to glean from the scriptures
that have been handed down to us, in what ever way they have come,
He will place upon our hearts the desires that He has for us to learn and live by,
at His time and at His place,..
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
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Uh oh!! You just made James37's case for him. This is no coincidence that in year 37 of your walk with God, you posted that post. Heee Heeee Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!

Oh snap!! Well, in 6 months it will be 38 years since I was saved! But what irony that I have been saved 37 years. I guess it goes to show, some thing are just coincidences!
 

SovereignGrace

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
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Oh snap!! Well, in 6 months it will be 38 years since I was saved! But what irony that I have been saved 37 years. I guess it goes to show, some thing are just coincidences!
Too late, you've been cold busted!! It was meant for you to post that in year 37. 1 x 37 = 37!! Own it.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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Purpose of Scripture Angela. You're vast wisdom and knowledge of the Greek language is making you forget.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


We know this passage and we believe it. Its just our interpretation what differs.

For example, what is meant by "All Scriptures"?

We can be very sure it has nothing to do with English translation in 1611.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
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Angela, you are the one who could help me (spoiler alert, its not related to this thread):

In Nestlé Aland, there is a variant reading to Jude 1:5:

"Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that God Jesus at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe."

It should be in Papyrus 72.

Papyrus 72 is there: Manuscript P72 - CSNTM

But I cannot find the place, I have problems reading these hand written unicials with no spaces. Can you help me find those words? :)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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PS Not even the slightest worry in my heart and mind, that I am not saved because I do not exalt a bad translation of the Bible. After 37 years of reading many versions of the Bible, and having studied the original languages, read up on manuscript evidence there is not a chance that I have missed anything. Sadly, can you say the same? You have basically missed Jesus, if this thread is any indication. The trouble is, and I don't say this to brag, is I have a much better education that you. I have not been deceived by cults and those who have never studied and compared manuscripts. There are many people here who understand about manuscript evidence, who have never been to seminary, of course! Many people! But, you are not one of those people.
Again, Angela exalting her man made education. This is sad Angela. Why do you keep throwing out your credentials as if it means something? All you have proven is that you are you own final authority on God's word. I hope you love the Lord and are going about soul winning. Do you go out into the streets and neighborhoods preaching the gospel? Standing behind a pulpit is not the same. Go door to door soul winning on a regular basis. That's the best education to receive.
 

notmyown

Senior Member
May 26, 2016
4,782
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Again, Angela exalting her man made education. This is sad Angela. Why do you keep throwing out your credentials as if it means something? All you have proven is that you are you own final authority on God's word. I hope you love the Lord and are going about soul winning. Do you go out into the streets and neighborhoods preaching the gospel? Standing behind a pulpit is not the same. Go door to door soul winning on a regular basis. That's the best education to receive.
if you knew her, you wouldn't say things like this.
 

preacher4truth

Senior Member
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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John146, you have just committed hypocrisy. Earlier you agreed that the words added to 1 Corinthians 14 are now "scripture", yet now you warn us not to add to scripture.

You really need to think through your position.
It's more evidence of the hypocrisy and double-standards of the KJVO cultists.
 
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from what ive been told by those in the know, sometimes u need to add words to translations. if u just translate them word by word it comes out in a way that we cant even understand it and the purpose is lost.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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from what ive been told by those in the know, sometimes u need to add words to translations. if u just translate them word by word it comes out in a way that we cant even understand it and the purpose is lost.
Sure. When the original languages can express some thought by fewer words (for example by inclination or different forms for various persons) and the language it is translated to does not have such rules and must use more words to render the same meaning.

But it is not the case here. The word "unknown" does not have to be added from any grammatical reason. You can check in other English translations. The idea of "unknown" simply is not in the Greek text.