The King James Only Debate
- Thread starter calvinsx76
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You made a statement about verses being taken out of the bible. When you argue that the verses are "removed", you must have a standard text in which they are present. You clearly imply that the KJV is that standard. I stated that the KJV is not the standard. I made a logical assertion, not an evidentiary assertion, therefore I had no need to provide evidence.
You provided a video, which I did not watch, but which I assume from context discusses verses present in the KJV and absent from the main text in the newer versions (they are normally present in footnotes, btw). Your post makes clear that you were not addressing the issue of the KJV being the standard, but of the presence or absence of the verses themselves. In other words, you missed my point.
Now here you make another logical error, stating that I made no point, but that you asked for evidence of the point (which you claim I have not made). Trace that carefully for yourself: if I made no point, then why would I need evidence for it?
In summary, if you use the KJV as the standard against which others are compared, the newer versions are "missing" certain verses. If you use the newer versions as the standard, the KJV has "added" verses. Either argument is logically valid. What is needed is a source external to both the KJV and the newer versions against which all may be compared. Otherwise you have a circular argument which has no validity or weight, which is why I continually challenge it when it is made.
You provided a video, which I did not watch, but which I assume from context discusses verses present in the KJV and absent from the main text in the newer versions (they are normally present in footnotes, btw). Your post makes clear that you were not addressing the issue of the KJV being the standard, but of the presence or absence of the verses themselves. In other words, you missed my point.
Now here you make another logical error, stating that I made no point, but that you asked for evidence of the point (which you claim I have not made). Trace that carefully for yourself: if I made no point, then why would I need evidence for it?
In summary, if you use the KJV as the standard against which others are compared, the newer versions are "missing" certain verses. If you use the newer versions as the standard, the KJV has "added" verses. Either argument is logically valid. What is needed is a source external to both the KJV and the newer versions against which all may be compared. Otherwise you have a circular argument which has no validity or weight, which is why I continually challenge it when it is made.
I am asking you again and again and again and you ignore my question, you are just repeating this over and over.
So - can you show me exactly how not knowing if some king was 42 or 20 years old changes my Christianity or why would I not be the complete Christian without the book of Ester?
If you cant, do not repeat to me that I need it.
Your theory is that you need all of that. And that you must have every word from books which are so long that you have probably even never read them fully.
My theory is that we need the New Testament and thats why it is much more better preserved than the Old one. We have doubts what is the word here or there in the NT, but we do not know which are the right sentences or even whole chapters in the OT.
So - can you show me exactly how not knowing if some king was 42 or 20 years old changes my Christianity or why would I not be the complete Christian without the book of Ester?
If you cant, do not repeat to me that I need it.
Your theory is that you need all of that. And that you must have every word from books which are so long that you have probably even never read them fully.
My theory is that we need the New Testament and thats why it is much more better preserved than the Old one. We have doubts what is the word here or there in the NT, but we do not know which are the right sentences or even whole chapters in the OT.
Last edited:
Psalm (12:6-7) - The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
God specifically says he will preserve his word so i ask where is it? All these bible versions are out but they obviously do not say the same things making only ONE infallible. The KJV took 7 years to complete & was the 7th English Bible to be published maybe that had something to do with the "purified seven times". The OT is made from Masoretic Texts from the Masoretes that spoke hebrew & aramaic. The NT is made from the Textus Receptus of the Koine Greek from the very first church of antioch where the term "Christians" was made to the disciples. There are close to 6,000 Greek manuscripts to support the Textus Receptus & well the Masoretic Texts are from the original hebrew languages. These are the texts that thr KJV is made from.
ALL other Bibles try to use the Septuagint, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus texts but are corrupted heresies mostly promoted by Catholics bc it benefits them with their Apocrypha agenda. The Septuagint main evidence will always be the supposed "Letter of Aristeas" where a librarian asks Jews from Israel to come to Alexandria and translate their OT in Greek but the letter is proven a hoax bc the dates dont add up. I would give some information but this paragraph is looking kind of long. The Sinaiticus of the NT is also proven a hoax bc first off, they NEVER dated the manuscript to see how old they were. They were GOING to but canceled, i wonder why? There are two versions of the description of sinaiticus, one being white which means it looks recent and new while the other is tainted and brown too make it seem old. To this day you can see a version of the Sinaiticus in a library that is clearly WHITE.
King James Bible has been the chosen bible of authorization for a long time that it has attracted masons to corrupt the version and wicked companies ESPECIALLY Wescott & Hort who are mainly in charge if the distributions of other verisons. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE KING JAMES VERSION IS THE ONLY WORD OF GOD.
GOD'S words will never pass away, Heaven and earth shall pass away: but MY words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)
God specifically says he will preserve his word so i ask where is it? All these bible versions are out but they obviously do not say the same things making only ONE infallible. The KJV took 7 years to complete & was the 7th English Bible to be published maybe that had something to do with the "purified seven times". The OT is made from Masoretic Texts from the Masoretes that spoke hebrew & aramaic. The NT is made from the Textus Receptus of the Koine Greek from the very first church of antioch where the term "Christians" was made to the disciples. There are close to 6,000 Greek manuscripts to support the Textus Receptus & well the Masoretic Texts are from the original hebrew languages. These are the texts that thr KJV is made from.
ALL other Bibles try to use the Septuagint, Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus texts but are corrupted heresies mostly promoted by Catholics bc it benefits them with their Apocrypha agenda. The Septuagint main evidence will always be the supposed "Letter of Aristeas" where a librarian asks Jews from Israel to come to Alexandria and translate their OT in Greek but the letter is proven a hoax bc the dates dont add up. I would give some information but this paragraph is looking kind of long. The Sinaiticus of the NT is also proven a hoax bc first off, they NEVER dated the manuscript to see how old they were. They were GOING to but canceled, i wonder why? There are two versions of the description of sinaiticus, one being white which means it looks recent and new while the other is tainted and brown too make it seem old. To this day you can see a version of the Sinaiticus in a library that is clearly WHITE.
King James Bible has been the chosen bible of authorization for a long time that it has attracted masons to corrupt the version and wicked companies ESPECIALLY Wescott & Hort who are mainly in charge if the distributions of other verisons. PLEASE UNDERSTAND THE KING JAMES VERSION IS THE ONLY WORD OF GOD.
GOD'S words will never pass away, Heaven and earth shall pass away: but MY words shall not pass away. (Jesus Christ, Son of God) (Mark 13:31)
Not sure if you knew where I got that from but it comes from here.
Isaiah 28:9-10 KJV
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
Isaiah 28:9-10 KJV
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
[10] For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
This is for the man who thinks there are no "mistakes" in the KJV.
Judgment is about God setting what is wrong to right
krisis - decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law)
It seems that in an effort to support their Doctrine of Hell the church, the King James version has changed the meanings of several verses from a neutral meaning 'judgment' to 'condemnation' and 'damnation.'
Thus word 'judgment' itself has become a very unstable word in our language. It has come to mean punishment, not it's original use of a neutral process. The Authorized version renders the word 'judgment as 'condemnation' and 'damnation' about 13 times.
Take this example from...
AV Deut 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment...
CLV Deut 1:17 You shall not recognize faces with partiality in judgment...
The Authorized version seems a bit more harsh, where a closer rendering encourages a more neutral attitude.
Examples like these are spread throughout the Scriptures.
--------------------------------------------------------
Here are examples of how the term 'judgment' got changed into 'damnation'...
CLV Matt 23:33 "Serpents! Progeny of vipers! How may you be fleeing from the judging of Gehenna?
AV Matt 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV Mark 12:40 who are devouring the homes of widows, and for a pretense are prolix in praying. These will be getting more excessive judgment."
AV Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
-------------------------------------------------------
CLV Luke 20:47 who are devouring the homes of widows and, for a pretense, are prolix in praying. These will be getting more excessive judgment."
AV Lk 20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shalule receive greater damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV John 5:29 and those who do good shall go out into a resurrection of life, yet those who commit bad things, into a resurrection of judging.
AV John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV Rom 3:8 and why not say, according as we are calumniated and according as any/some are averring that we are saying, that "We should be doing evil that good may be coming?" whose judgment is fair.
AV Rom 3:8 And not [rather], (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV Rom 13:2 so that he who is resisting an authority has withstood God's mandate. Now those who have withstood, will be getting judgment for themselves,
AV Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV 1Cor 11:29 For he who is eating and drinking unworthily is eating and drinking judgment to himself, not discriminating the body of the Lord.
AV 1Cor 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
--------------------------------------------------------
In many cases the King James version represents judgment as a past event and damnation as a result.
Judgment of the nations does not begin until Jesus Christ returns. The nations nor individuals have not been judged so there has been no damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
Here are examples of how the term 'judgment' got changed into 'condemnation'...
CLV Luke 23:40 Yet answering, the other one, rebuking him, averred, "Yet you are not fearing God, seeing that you are in the same judgment!
AV Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV John 3:19 Now this is the judging: that the light has come into the world, and men love the darkness rather than the light, for their acts were wicked.
AV John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life.
AV John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV 1Cor 11:34 Now if anyone may be hungry, let him eat in/at home, that you may not be coming together into/for judgment. Now the rest I shall be prescribing as soon as I should be coming.
AV 1Cor 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV 1Tim 3:6 no novice, lest, being conceited, he should be falling in into the judgment of the Adversary.
AV 1Tim 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV James 3:1 Not many should become teachers, my brethren, being aware that we shall be getting greater judgment.
AV James 3:1 . My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV James 5:12 Now before all, my brethren, do not be swearing, neither by heaven, nor by the earth, nor any other oath. Now let your "yes" be "yes," and "not" be "not," lest you should be falling under judging.
AV James 5:12 . But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
-------------------------------------------------------
CLV Jude 1:4 For any/some human/men slip in who long ago have been written beforehand into/for this judgment; irreverent, bartering the grace of our God into/for wantonness, and disowning our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ.
AV Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------
Again judgment seems to be in the past as condemnation, a result of judging, replaces this process.
Even in the United States an effort is made to provide a fair and just judgment for it's citizens, even in it's imperfect state. How much more fair would be God's judgment?
Judgment is about God setting what is wrong to right
krisis - decision (subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension, a tribunal; by implication, justice (especially, divine law)
It seems that in an effort to support their Doctrine of Hell the church, the King James version has changed the meanings of several verses from a neutral meaning 'judgment' to 'condemnation' and 'damnation.'
Thus word 'judgment' itself has become a very unstable word in our language. It has come to mean punishment, not it's original use of a neutral process. The Authorized version renders the word 'judgment as 'condemnation' and 'damnation' about 13 times.
Take this example from...
AV Deut 1:17 Ye shall not respect persons in judgment...
CLV Deut 1:17 You shall not recognize faces with partiality in judgment...
The Authorized version seems a bit more harsh, where a closer rendering encourages a more neutral attitude.
Examples like these are spread throughout the Scriptures.
--------------------------------------------------------
Here are examples of how the term 'judgment' got changed into 'damnation'...
CLV Matt 23:33 "Serpents! Progeny of vipers! How may you be fleeing from the judging of Gehenna?
AV Matt 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV Mark 12:40 who are devouring the homes of widows, and for a pretense are prolix in praying. These will be getting more excessive judgment."
AV Mark 12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
-------------------------------------------------------
CLV Luke 20:47 who are devouring the homes of widows and, for a pretense, are prolix in praying. These will be getting more excessive judgment."
AV Lk 20:47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shalule receive greater damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV John 5:29 and those who do good shall go out into a resurrection of life, yet those who commit bad things, into a resurrection of judging.
AV John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV Rom 3:8 and why not say, according as we are calumniated and according as any/some are averring that we are saying, that "We should be doing evil that good may be coming?" whose judgment is fair.
AV Rom 3:8 And not [rather], (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV Rom 13:2 so that he who is resisting an authority has withstood God's mandate. Now those who have withstood, will be getting judgment for themselves,
AV Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV 1Cor 11:29 For he who is eating and drinking unworthily is eating and drinking judgment to himself, not discriminating the body of the Lord.
AV 1Cor 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
--------------------------------------------------------
In many cases the King James version represents judgment as a past event and damnation as a result.
Judgment of the nations does not begin until Jesus Christ returns. The nations nor individuals have not been judged so there has been no damnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
Here are examples of how the term 'judgment' got changed into 'condemnation'...
CLV Luke 23:40 Yet answering, the other one, rebuking him, averred, "Yet you are not fearing God, seeing that you are in the same judgment!
AV Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV John 3:19 Now this is the judging: that the light has come into the world, and men love the darkness rather than the light, for their acts were wicked.
AV John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV John 5:24 "Verily, verily, I am saying to you that he who is hearing My word and believing Him Who sends Me, has life eonian and is not coming into judging, but has proceeded out of death into life.
AV John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV 1Cor 11:34 Now if anyone may be hungry, let him eat in/at home, that you may not be coming together into/for judgment. Now the rest I shall be prescribing as soon as I should be coming.
AV 1Cor 11:34 And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV 1Tim 3:6 no novice, lest, being conceited, he should be falling in into the judgment of the Adversary.
AV 1Tim 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV James 3:1 Not many should become teachers, my brethren, being aware that we shall be getting greater judgment.
AV James 3:1 . My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
--------------------------------------------------------
CLV James 5:12 Now before all, my brethren, do not be swearing, neither by heaven, nor by the earth, nor any other oath. Now let your "yes" be "yes," and "not" be "not," lest you should be falling under judging.
AV James 5:12 . But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and [your] nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.
-------------------------------------------------------
CLV Jude 1:4 For any/some human/men slip in who long ago have been written beforehand into/for this judgment; irreverent, bartering the grace of our God into/for wantonness, and disowning our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ.
AV Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------
Again judgment seems to be in the past as condemnation, a result of judging, replaces this process.
Even in the United States an effort is made to provide a fair and just judgment for it's citizens, even in it's imperfect state. How much more fair would be God's judgment?