The King James Only Debate

[Dan_473]

Dan, same here. 13 represents love both good and bad. Why would the KJV translators use exactly 13 words to talk about the mother of harlot love, the NASB uses 14 words. Is this random chance?

Revelation 17:5 KJV
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH .

This is where I was talking about grasping the math.

A set of words will produce random patterns. Our minds will attach amazing meanings to them.

 

[Dan_473]

It''s also done that way to hide the wisdom of God from the wisdom of the world.... also using this method, the word of God can't be "figured out", it has to be revealed by God... he has to let you see it.

Edit to add: And you can't see it if you don't believe every single word is right. I know that from experience.

I saw patterns in the niv, which I don't believe is word perfect.

 

[KJV1611]

there are tons of number patterns in the kjv... or any book... possibly your mind latched onto this particular one and rejected other meanings that could be attached.



for example
1 SAMUEL 4:15 Now Eli was ninety and eight years old; and his eyes were dim, that he could not see.

ninety means Eli was full of the fruit of the spirit, and eight is the number of completion, so Eli was completely full of the spirit.

Not exactly, you're using the number 90 the wrong way. 90 doesn't mean "full of the spirit", it means fruit bearing. Eli was bearing the fruit of the seeds he had sown. He was being taken out by God because his fruit was rotten.

The number 8 means new beginings. Circumcision was done on the 8th day. 7 days in a week and the 8th begins a new week. 8 souls came off the ark to begin a new world after the flood. In 1 Samuel Eli's era ended and a new era began.

 

[KJV1611]

This is where I was talking about grasping the math.

A set of words will produce random patterns. Our minds will attach amazing meanings to them.

Is it random chance that the love chapter of the bible is in chapter 13?

 

[Dan_473]

I believe the KJV is inerrant and I am KJV only FOR ME. Unfortunately I get lumped into the KJV only cult because of my belief. I agree there is a KJV only cult and I am not a part of that group. No group or pastor made me KJV only, I became KJV only on my own by studying it.

If you can get things out of the NIV then that's great, I read the NIV for 15 years but I couldn't get any of this from the NIV. I would like to give you an example of why I'm KJV only. Please look it over and see the point I'm trying to make.

The KJV is clearly talking about David's DNA and the body of Christ in Psalm 139. I will talk about David's DNA but not the body of Christ (the church).

In the KJV God saw David's substance (body parts), yet being unperfect (not formed); and in God's book (David's book of DNA) all David's members (hands, feet, eyes, hair) were written. Which in continuance were fashioned ( the book has been written since the foundation of the world) when as yet there was no David.

Psalm 139:16King James Version (KJV)

[FONT=&]16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

tThe NIV may say the same thing but I can't get that out of NASB. To me it looks like the book in the NASB is the number days ordained for David.

[/FONT]
Psalm 139:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)

[FONT=&][FONT=&]16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.[/FONT]
[/FONT]

' I believe the KJV is inerrant and I am KJV only FOR ME.'

I'll be honest, I've read loads of your posts and didn't know that. my apologies.

so, great!

I love finding cool number patterns in the Bible, so let's do it together!

 

[KJV1611]

' I believe the KJV is inerrant and I am KJV only FOR ME.'

I'll be honest, I've read loads of your posts and didn't know that. my apologies.

so, great!

I love finding cool number patterns in the Bible, so let's do it together!

I really screwed up by choosing a screen name of KJV 1611... it incites riots lol.

 

[KJV1611]

' I believe the KJV is inerrant and I am KJV only FOR ME.'

I'll be honest, I've read loads of your posts and didn't know that. my apologies.

so, great!

I love finding cool number patterns in the Bible, so let's do it together!

I've got to start writing these things down. I run across patterns and don't write them down then I forget about them.

 

[Dan_473]

Certainly I would and I would promote it if it exists. But I'm talking about real patterns that match the biblical meaning of numbers.

niv uses 'one and only' four times.

on the fourth day of creation, God puts the lights in the heavens.

Jesus is the light of the world.

 

[Agricola]

If you think that the King James has unique numerology contained within it, then please share that and give me an example please.

I believe the KJV is inerrant and I am KJV only FOR ME. Unfortunately I get lumped into the KJV only cult because of my belief. I agree there is a KJV only cult and I am not a part of that group. No group or pastor made me KJV only, I became KJV only on my own by studying it.

If you can get things out of the NIV then that's great, I read the NIV for 15 years but I couldn't get any of this from the NIV. I would like to give you an example of why I'm KJV only. Please look it over and see the point I'm trying to make.

The KJV is clearly talking about David's DNA and the body of Christ in Psalm 139. I will talk about David's DNA but not the body of Christ (the church).

In the KJV God saw David's substance (body parts), yet being unperfect (not formed); and in God's book (David's book of DNA) all David's members (hands, feet, eyes, hair) were written. Which in continuance were fashioned ( the book has been written since the foundation of the world) when as yet there was no David.

Psalm 139:16King James Version (KJV)

16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

tThe NIV may say the same thing but I can't get that out of NASB. To me it looks like the book in the NASB is the number days ordained for David.


Psalm 139:16New American Standard Bible (NASB)

16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

Sorry, I was wanting an example of the numerology you were speaking of that is different for King James and no other Bible, not another verse comparison.

 

[Dan_473]

Not exactly, you're using the number 90 the wrong way. 90 doesn't mean "full of the spirit", it means fruit bearing. Eli was bearing the fruit of the seeds he had sown. He was being taken out by God because his fruit was rotten.

The number 8 means new beginings. Circumcision was done on the 8th day. 7 days in a week and the 8th begins a new week. 8 souls came off the ark to begin a new world after the flood. In 1 Samuel Eli's era ended and a new era began.

Eli was bearing the fruit of the spirit, God was giving him a new beginning.

 

[Dan_473]

Is it random chance that the love chapter of the bible is in chapter 13?

Possibly... or we can find a meaning for it...

 

[KJV1611]

niv uses 'one and only' four times.

on the fourth day of creation, God puts the lights in the heavens.

Jesus is the light of the world.

I get the 4th day because God put lights in the heaven... 4 points to heavenly things - 4th kingdom, 4 gospels, 4 beasts etc. but what is heavenly about one and only?

 

[KJV1611]

Possibly... or we can find a meaning for it...

I believe God's word is in divine order.... yes I know it's in Chapter 13 of the NIV too lol.

 

[KJV1611]

Eli was bearing the fruit of the spirit, God was giving him a new beginning.

Not hardly, Eli was a bad man. He was reaping the fruit of the bad seeds he sewed.

 

[KJV1611]

Sorry, I was wanting an example of the numerology you were speaking of that is different for King James and no other Bible, not another verse comparison.

Gotcha. I don't have a written collection and I can't think of any thing right now.

Edit: I just thought of one. Comfort is found 66 times in the KJV... haven't checked other version to see hat they have.

 

[Dan_473]

I get the 4th day because God put lights in the heaven... 4 points to heavenly things - 4th kingdom, 4 gospels, 4 beasts etc. but what is heavenly about one and only?

PSALMS 19:1 For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows his handiwork.

ST. JOHN 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son,
who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

 

[Dan_473]

I believe God's word is in divine order.... yes I know it's in Chapter 13 of the NIV too lol.

possibly this is it, from the thirteenth chapter of Psalms

PSALMS 13:5 But I trust in your unfailing love; my heart rejoices in your salvation.

the psalmist turns his attention away from himself to God's unfailing love.


links up with
1 CORINTHIANS 13:5 It does not dishonor others,
it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

 

[Dan_473]

Not hardly, Eli was a bad man. He was reaping the fruit of the bad seeds he sewed.

good point, looks like I missed the boat on that one.

how about the ninety connects with psalm ninety, which talks a lot about our days ending
PSALMS 90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.

then the eight refers to a new beginning with Samuel, who was a very different leader

1 SAMUEL 3:19 And Samuel grew, and the LORD was with him, and did let none of his words fall to the ground.
1 SAMUEL 3:20 And all Israel from Dan even to Beersheba knew that Samuel was established to be a prophet of the LORD.
1 SAMUEL 3:21 And the LORD appeared again in Shiloh: for the LORD revealed himself to Samuel in Shiloh by the word of the LORD.

 

[dcontroversal]

How would you explain, or rather, defend the verses of modern bibles to a stereotypical ethnicity, that is critiquing the sensitive topic of slavery justifiable by scriptures? All the MAJOR changes of the KJV has been Catholic influenced from these codex "mysteriously" resurfacing from monasteries or temples being kept by monks. The same Roman Catholics who were inspired to do missionary works like the Jesuits, Crusaders, Knights Templars, Freemasons all under the Papacy.


Which influenced in owning slaves of the Africans & Indigenous people justifying them with "Christianity". That reputation has stained ALL of Christianity with minorities, now they look at Christians as racist white folks or brainwashed indoctrinated minorities all following the "white man's religion" of the blonde hair, blue eyes paintings of Jesus Christ.


Which religion do they mostly turn to now? The religion of Islam bc they feel more "accepted". With reputations as the KKK & Hitler ( who was a baptized skeptic catholic NOT christian) the subject of slavery in MOSTLY all moden bibles is a harsh topic. When in the preserved KJV version the word "slave" isn't even mention that ik of.


Ephesians 6:5 - Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.


1 Peter 2:18 - Slaves, in reverent fear of God submit yourselves to your masters, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

Titus (2:9-10) - Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them, and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

Leviticus (25:44-46) - Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

Jesus did say that after we have done all we can do for the cause of Christ to consider ourselves lowly (doulos) bond servants only doing the things we have been commanded to do...all we can do is go to the original languages to see what words were used in the passages you cited...and context..right?

 

[The_Bible]

Jesus did say that after we have done all we can do for the cause of Christ to consider ourselves lowly (doulos) bond servants only doing the things we have been commanded to do...all we can do is go to the original languages to see what words were used in the passages you cited...and context..right?

But the argument is what would these MODERN BIBLES say servants or slaves? Bonds or captives? The KJV uses these rightful words in the languages of these original manuscripts while others make it more harsh. Modern bibles have no chance for reliability when it will get critiqued by a scoffer.