The King James Only Debate

[The_Bible]

Septuagint can be translated as 72, which, of course, refers to the 72 Jewish scholars.

I often thought that the original NT was written in Hebrew, as most of the early Christians were Jews.

I don't use the Septuagint myself. I use the Ancient Greek text for NT and the Tanakh for the OT. It was around before Jesus even came.

As you can probably tell, I am not a big fan of the KJV. I have found too many "mistakes" in it.

Israel was conquered by the Romans & the Israelites and Greeks were associates with each other. There are some evidence of Jesus speaking in Greek to Israelites like when he changed Simon name to Peter, which is "Petros" in Greek meaning stone while the following verse mentions "Petra" which means rock. Even Jewish historian Flavius Josephus who was around for the 1st century said that it was common for Jews to know Greek.

Septuagint is Greek bc they were the conquerers in Alexandria of Egypt at the "supposed" time of the "Septuagint". What you use are the exact things the KJV has only that is ofc in English. Unless you mean you actually read Greek and Hebrew whch I wouldn't recommend. And I believe there are no errors in the KJV so if you feel there are you can post them and I'll try to answer em.

1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

 

[Dan_473]

Ok......

I also very much believe in the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit........but that does not absolve us of studying God's Word.......rather, when we study God's Word, it is the Holy Spirit who imparts understanding to us....

That's just me...........sooooooooooo

God gave us the Scriptures for a purpose.........if they were not important to us/for us, He would not have given them to us would He?

It reminds me of the folks in Acts who were believed and were water baptized but knew nothing of the Holy Spirit. A person could give their life to Christ, and receive God's amazing grace, and forgiveness of their sin(s), but then, there is the next step.....which is Sanctification, and that comes as described in Acts.

(my thoughts)

Yes, if you can read the Bible, then the spirit will use that as part of your growing up. But if you can't read it, then the spirit will use other ways.

 

[KJV1611]

Israel was conquered by the Romans & the Israelites and Greeks were associates with each other. There are some evidence of Jesus speaking in Greek to Israelites like when he changed Simon name to Peter, which is "Petros" in Greek meaning stone while the following verse mentions "Petra" which means rock. Even Jewish historian Flavius Josephus who was around for the 1st century said that it was common for Jews to know Greek.

Septuagint is Greek bc they were the conquerers in Alexandria of Egypt at the "supposed" time of the "Septuagint". What you use are the exact things the KJV has only that is ofc in English. Unless you mean you actually read Greek and Hebrew whch I wouldn't recommend. And I believe there are no errors in the KJV so if you feel there are you can post them and I'll try to answer em.

1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

There are no errors in the KJV.

 

[Agricola]

Israel was conquered by the Romans & the Israelites and Greeks were associates with each other.

Actully, a nation of Israel never existed from time of of the Babylon enslavement, they have been under continual occupation which ended in 1948

 

[KJV1611]

If anyone has any KJV errors please post them, I enjoy searching out the truth in the supposed error.

 

[Lynx]

If anyone has any KJV errors please post them, I enjoy searching out the truth in the supposed error.

That's easy enough. Genesis 49:6 has a translation error.

O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

"Digged down a wall" should have been "hamstrung oxen."

I'm not making a bad joke. Look it up.

 

[Lynx]

And for the record, yes I know there is a lot of argument about that verse. But you asked for it so I gave you it.

There's also the question of whether Judas hanged himself or threw himself off a cliff. Acts 1:18 versus Matthew 27:5.

 

[KJV1611]

That's easy enough. Genesis 49:6 has a translation error.

O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

"Digged down a wall" should have been "hamstrung oxen."

I'm not making a bad joke. Look it up.

Thanks for responding. I realize the KJV words don't match Strongs but honestly aren't the two analogies the same. I mean digging down a wall undermines the wall just like hamstinging an oxen undermines the oxen. The spiritual principle being taught would be the same, just two different ways of saying the same thing.

Maybe back in the day hamstringing an oxen would have been taken in the same manner as digging down a wall in our day. I do appreciate your comment, do you have any more?

Edit to add: In the KJV a wall represents salvation.

 

[The_Bible]

And for the record, yes I know there is a lot of argument about that verse. But you asked for it so I gave you it.

There's also the question of whether Judas hanged himself or threw himself off a cliff. Acts 1:18 versus Matthew 27:5.

Matthew 27:5 - And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

Acts 1:18 - Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.



This is not at all a contradiction is a simple false assumption believing that these two passages describe a difference in Judas death. Is simple to say that he hanged himself & the rope broke, or hunged himself & the tree branch broke, or he hunged himself, so long he rotted & fell down, & busted open.


I'll rather believe the KJV until it is proven wrong (which it won't) rather than to doubt it until i can prove that it is right.

 

[The_Bible]

Actully, a nation of Israel never existed from time of of the Babylon enslavement, they have been under continual occupation which ended in 1948

Yea well you know i meant the Israel we know of today or the 12 tribes were conquered by the Romans.

 

[BigD9832]

Septuagint is Greek bc they were the conquerers in Alexandria of Egypt at the "supposed" time of the "Septuagint". What you use are the exact things the KJV has only that is ofc in English. Unless you mean you actually read Greek and Hebrew whch I wouldn't recommend. And I believe there are no errors in the KJV so if you feel there are you can post them and I'll try to answer em.


1 Peter 3:15 - But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Actually I have been reading and studying in Ancient Greek for about 40 years.


Hey, somebody has to do it.


CLV 1Pt 3:14 Yet if you may be suffering also because of righteousness, happy are you. Now you may not be afraid with their fear, nor yet be disturbed,
15 yet hallow the Lord Christ in your hearts, ever ready with a defense for everyone who is demanding from you an account concerning the expectation in you, but with meekness and fear,


In view of the coming storm of persecution Peter quotes and varies a word from Isa 8:12-13 spoken in similar circumstances, but with the significant substitution of "the Lord Christ" for "Jehovah of Hosts". Remembering Jewish reverence for the letter of Scripture and the intense dread of having any God but one, we see how firmly Peter is convinced that Christ is the Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures.
A. E. Knoch

There are no errors in the KJV.

That is a joke...right? LOL


First off, there is no "hell" in the Scriptures. There is no Ancient term for "hell."


'Sheol' is mistranslated into three different terms in the KJV. None of them are accurate.


Olam/aion are mis-translated as "forever" instead of age or eon.


And King James was bisexual.

 

[BigD9832]

Yea well you know i meant the Israel we know of today or the 12 tribes were conquered by the Romans.

That is not entirely accurate.


10 of the 12 tribes of Israel were dispersed. The remnant of Israel are know as the Jews.


The story of their dispersion starts in 1Kings 12.


So by the time we get to Rome, the other 10 tribes were long gone.

 

[The_Bible]

That is not entirely accurate.

10 of the 12 tribes of Israel were dispersed. The remnant of Israel are know as the Jews.

The story of their dispersion starts in 1Kings 12.

So by the time we get to Rome, the other 10 tribes were long gone.

I mean like the geogrophical places of the 12 tribes that were once there. I'm not sure if they existed there at the time or not. But I do know Israelites from all the 12 tribe exist to this day just scattered across the Earth like dragon balls.

Revelation 7:4 - And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 

[The_Bible]

Actually I have been reading and studying in Ancient Greek for about 40 years.

Hey, somebody has to do it.

CLV 1Pt 3:14 Yet if you may be suffering also because of righteousness, happy are you. Now you may not be afraid with their fear, nor yet be disturbed,
15 yet hallow the Lord Christ in your hearts, ever ready with a defense for everyone who is demanding from you an account concerning the expectation in you, but with meekness and fear,

In view of the coming storm of persecution Peter quotes and varies a word from Isa 8:12-13 spoken in similar circumstances, but with the significant substitution of "the Lord Christ" for "Jehovah of Hosts". Remembering Jewish reverence for the letter of Scripture and the intense dread of having any God but one, we see how firmly Peter is convinced that Christ is the Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures.
A. E. Knoch

That is a joke...right? LOL

First off, there is no "hell" in the Scriptures. There is no Ancient term for "hell."

'Sheol' is mistranslated into three different terms in the KJV. None of them are accurate.

Olam/aion are mis-translated as "forever" instead of age or eon.

And King James was bisexual.

Nope nothing is mistranslated as far as the Greek translations I cannot provide info bc I do not know Greek, but for "Sheol" hell is mentioned in the KJV gradually as the scriptures progresses and once in the Torah for Deut. It goes to show that sheol meant a place of hell and Abraham's Bosom (rest). King James being bisexual is irrelevant which I doubt he was.

 

[BigD9832]

Dragon balls?

You have some wild ideas but I like you.

CLV 1Jn 5:7 seeing that three there are that are testifying,

 

[BigD9832]

Actually 'sheol' is Hebrew, not Greek. The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us it is the abode of the dead. Of course that is meant in a figurative sense.

The Orthodox Jews have no "hell." They have no "after-life." According to the Orthodox Jews we sleep until the Resurrection. Then and only then are we judged.

The KJV translates 'sheol' as "hell," sometimes "grave," and sometimes "pit." None of these terms give 'sheol' any justice.

There is no "hell" in the scriptures. Not the way we use it.

 

[The_Bible]

Actually 'sheol' is Hebrew, not Greek. The Jewish Encyclopedia tells us it is the abode of the dead. Of course that is meant in a figurative sense.
The Orthodox Jews have no "hell." They have no "after-life." According to the Orthodox Jews we sleep until the Resurrection. Then and only then are we judged.
The KJV translates 'sheol' as "hell," sometimes "grave," and sometimes "pit." None of these terms give 'sheol' any justice.
There is no "hell" in the scriptures. Not the way we use it.

Wouldn't Sheol mean the grave or pit? That is their place of rest right?

Job 11:8 - It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?

Job 17:16 - They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when our rest together is in the dust.

Job 24:19 - Drought and heat consume the snow waters: so doth the grave those which have sinned.

2 Samuel 22:6 - The sorrows of hell compassed me about; the snares of death prevented me;

Psalms 116:3 the sorrows of death compassed me, and the pains of hell gat hold upon me: I found trouble and sorrow.
Isaiah 14:15 - Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Daniel 12:2 - And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

So far we know this about Sheol.


1 - Fire exist in sheol which burns, meaning that it's very HOT down there, this agrees with what the rich man experienced in hell as he was asking Lazarus to put water in his tongue.


2 - There exist pains in sheol and Sorrow as described in Isaiah... If it's peaceful there, then how is that possible?


3 - Lucifer was brought down there to the pit of sheol.


Just by these points, you can get rid of the idea that Sheol is peaceful.

 

[BigD9832]

Now your KJV is showing.


1. There is no fire in sheol.


CLV Jb 24:19 As aridity and warmth siphon away the snow waters, So the unseen takes those who have sinned.


The PARABLE of Lazarus and the rich man cannot be an accurate representation of 'sheol,' know in Ancient Greek as 'hades.' There are several reasons for this. Unless, of course, you want to ignore the rest of the Bible.


2. It seems to me that the Pains you speak of are from the living, not the dead.


CLV Ps 116:3 The cables of death have enveloped me, And the constrictions of the unseen, they have converged upon me; I found distress and affliction.


3. There is no "lucifer." It comes from a mistake in the Septuagint. Look up Isaiah 14:12 in the Tanakh. Or even Young's.


'Sheol' comes from the Hebrew word 'sha'al ' which means "to ask." So the question is, what happens to us in death? The answer is we go to a place that we cannot see. Unseen or Unperceived.


I didn't say 'sheol' is peaceful. I said it was figurative.

 

[The_Bible]

Now your KJV is showing.


1. There is no fire in sheol.


CLV Jb 24:19 As aridity and warmth siphon away the snow waters, So the unseen takes those who have sinned.


The PARABLE of Lazarus and the rich man cannot be an accurate representation of 'sheol,' know in Ancient Greek as 'hades.' There are several reasons for this. Unless, of course, you want to ignore the rest of the Bible.


2. It seems to me that the Pains you speak of are from the living, not the dead.


CLV Ps 116:3 The cables of death have enveloped me, And the constrictions of the unseen, they have converged upon me; I found distress and affliction.


3. There is no "lucifer." It comes from a mistake in the Septuagint. Look up Isaiah 14:12 in the Tanakh. Or even Young's.


'Sheol' comes from the Hebrew word 'sha'al ' which means "to ask." So the question is, what happens to us in death? The answer is we go to a place that we cannot see. Unseen or Unperceived.


I didn't say 'sheol' is peaceful. I said it was figurative.

The KJV does not use any Septuagint texts only the Masoretic which is in hebrew. There are plenty of verses that say sheol or hell is in the earth aka grave or pit. Idk what Bible is that but is uh very different.

Psalm 9:17 - The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

Psalm 16:10 - For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Psalm 30:3 - O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that i should not go down to the pit.

Psalm 86:13 - For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Ezekiel 31:15-17 - Thus saith the Lord GOD; in the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him. I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth. They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen. (Lucifer's fall story)

 

[Ahwatukee]

The PARABLE of Lazarus and the rich man cannot be an accurate representation of 'sheol,' know in Ancient Greek as 'hades.' There are several reasons for this. Unless, of course, you want to ignore the rest of the Bible.

The event of the rich man and Lazarus is not a parable. There is nothing in the scripture that would lead the reader to interpret it as a parable, as parables use symbolism to represent the literal. The rich man and Lazarus uses the names of real people, Abraham, Lazarus, Moses, etc. and it also uses the literal place of Hades.

Just as the scripture states, there was a place of torment and a place of comfort/paradise, which were separated by a great chasm. Prior to Christ's resurrection, when the righteous died, their spirit/soul went to that place of comfort across from where the rich man was/is. After Christ's resurrection when the righteous die, their spirit/soul goes immediately to be in the presence of the Lord (Phil.1:23, 2 Cor.5:6-8). However, when the unrighteous die, their spirit/soul still goes into Hades.

Rev.20:11-15 demonstrates that those who are in Hades, from all walks of history, including the rich man, will be resurrected out at the end of the millennial period and will stand before God at the great white throne judgement.

To change this event into a parable would distort God's intended meaning.