The Lake of Fire

[Lanolin]

Context determines meaning, not a stand alone verse. Man shall live by “every word” that proceeds from the mouth of God, not a few that support our ideas about Him.

Since Scripture states that “no man” took or could take His life, that it was in fact predestined, then in fact it was exactly what God wanted, and it achieved His purpose.

17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Let’s look at a breakdown of a Hebrew word in Genesis, "Barasheet" (the first word in Genesis in Hebrew translated as "in the beginning") and breaking it up into its pictographs, then translating those we get:

"The Son of God [will be] destroyed (or killed) [by his own] hand (or effort) [on a] cross."
Bet-Resh; "Bara" = "Son of"
Aleph = "God; the first"
Shin = "destroy"
Yod = "effort" or "hand"
Tav = "cross"

God has never been surprised or thwarted in His purposes.

I think some people dont see that Jesus willingly laid his life down it wasnt God who killed him it was the Romans who actually crucified him. The jewish elite wanted to kill him by stoning but they could not do it so they got the Roman govt to be the hitmen. Its becomign obvious that Journeyman really needs to sort out his view of God. Cos hes making some outrageous statemeents that just arent true of any believer and then putting up strawmen everywhere.
I dont know what church journeyman went to that maybe had such a warped view but please get over it not everyone falls for that kind of false teaching.

We can all read our Bibles here and encourage everyone to do so, search scripture daily to see if these things are so.

 

[Sipsey]

I think some people dont see that Jesus willingly laid his life down it wasnt God who killed him it was the Romans who actually crucified him. The jewish elite wanted to kill him by stoning but they could not do it so they got the Roman govt to be the hitmen. Its becomign obvious that Journeyman really needs to sort out his view of God. Cos hes making some outrageous statemeents that just arent true of any believer and then putting up strawmen everywhere.
I dont know what church journeyman went to that maybe had such a warped view but please get over it not everyone falls for that kind of false teaching.

It has taken me about 40 years to see the crimson thread in Scripture that runs its entire length, but it has its price. To understand what that peace Jesus referred to is glorious but requires sweat and even blood.

Real love requires sacrifice and only by the leading of the Holy Spirit can one have peace and sacrifice simultaneously.

What I’ve found is that some personality types will take a 5 course meal and rake it into a pot to make stew, that seems to be a problem.

 

[Lanolin]

Well nobody reads the entire Bible all in one day.
The way its taught in many churches can be a bit of a hodge podge. Its best to go through scripture from Genesis to Revelation and not skip anything out when reading for the first time.

Some people treat it like the yellow pages. Unfortunately for them.

 

[Journeyman]

Context determines meaning, not a stand alone verse. Man shall live by “every word” that proceeds from the mouth of God, not a few that support our ideas about Him.

Every word of God agrees that men accusing and condemning God is an abomination. Do you understand this?

Since Scripture states that “no man” took or could take His life, that it was in fact predestined, then in fact it was exactly what God wanted, and it achieved His purpose.

It was predestined and God wanted to show us, that no man can put an end to God. So, to crucify an innocent man (God in flesh), to attempt to kill God is an abomination.

17 Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Yes, God was pleased that he layed down his life for the welfare of others. God was not pleased that his kindness was rewarded with evil, because condemning him is an abomination.

Let’s look at a breakdown of a Hebrew word in Genesis, "Barasheet" (the first word in Genesis in Hebrew translated as "in the beginning") and breaking it up into its pictographs, then translating those we get:

"The Son of God [will be] destroyed (or killed) [by his own] hand (or effort) [on a] cross."
Bet-Resh; "Bara" = "Son of"
Aleph = "God; the first"
Shin = "destroy"
Yod = "effort" or "hand"
Tav = "cross"[/quot]
No Sipsey. The Son of God [will] destroy [or kill] [by his own] hand (or effort) [on a] cross, THE WORK OF THE SATAN.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil. Heb.2:14

And the work of the devil is to condemn God. That's what the people who sentenced Jesus to death did. That is an abomination.

God has never been surprised or thwarted in His purposes.

And his own purposes are never to condemn himself. Quite frankly, the religious leaders (who stood in the place of the Holy), along with Rome (who worshipped Caesar as a god)
we could call them an abomination that causes desolation.

 

[Sipsey]

Not sure what your point is. Can you expound?

 

[Journeyman]

Actually no your placing an interpetation that isnt there. The disciples did not think Jesus would return exactly as he had left as you say 'a jewish man wearing the same robes, sandals etc' where do you even get that from??

I get from the question his disciples asked him about whether he would restore the Kingdom at that time. Furthermore, Sipsey stated as much in post 234 and that's what you seemed to be implying in post 232. If that's not what you meant, apologies, but that doesn't excuse your statement below.

JEsus was resurrected and had been glorified and transfigured. It was just meaning he would return with the clouds. Because a cloud had taken him up, his return would be with the clouds.

Simple. Dont try and overanalyse it, and Peter and Paul agree on that too. Also, believers will see Jesus first because we believers recognise Him and hear Him. Every eye will see him.

Lanolin, I'm not over analyzing anything. In the passages I cited, neither Paul or Peter are simply saying, "Jesus is coming back in a cloud." They describe the 2nd coming as raging inferno that will forever change heaven and earth as we know them, leaving only righteousness. That's what they plainly say.

 

[Journeyman]

Not sure what your point is.

My point is, the only thing you interpreted correctly, or truth in your last post is when you said, "God has never been surprised or thwarted in His purposes."

Can you expound?

Sure,

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Pro.6:17-19

And every one of these filthy sins which God hates and finds abominable were committed against his Son Jesus, God in flesh. All the lying, the contempt born of pride. Can you imagine literally spitting on God? That terrible beating and crucifixion. Men attempting to rid themselves of God. And he bore these sins.

And since death is caused by sin, Jesus being sinless defeated death. And this he did for the world. God was pleased, not by the sins inflicted on him, but that he remained faithful through such sickening abuse.

 

[Sipsey]

My point is, the only thing you interpreted correctly, or truth in your last post is when you said, "God has never been surprised or thwarted in His purposes."


Sure,

These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Pro.6:17-19

And every one of these filthy sins which God hates and finds abominable were committed against his Son Jesus, God in flesh. All the lying, the contempt born of pride. Can you imagine literally spitting on God? That terrible beating and crucifixion. Men attempting to rid themselves of God. And he bore these sins.

And since death is caused by sin, Jesus being sinless defeated death. And this he did for the world. God was pleased, not by the sins inflicted on him, but that he remained faithful through such sickening abuse.

Your issue is with Scripture itself, not me.

 

[Journeyman]

Your issue is with Scripture itself, not me.

Par for this thread.

 

[Jan7777777]

Hello again,

According to Dan.12:2, Acts 24:15, John 5:28 and Rev.20:11-15, there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. The word "anastasis" translated "resurrection" is defined by two words "ana -up and "hestemi" to stand, properly to "stand up again." Jesus is the example of standing up again in the same body.

After the thousand year reign of Christ, the great white throne judgment will take place, which will involve all of the unrighteous dead from the beginning of time up to that judgement. These are those who according to Rev.20:5 "The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete," and that because they died in their sins and therefore were not worthy of the first resurrection.

Both righteous and wicked will receive a resurrected body. The righteous will be raised in an immortal and glorified body, where the wicked will be resurrected in a body mete for their punishment, i.e. it will feel the pain of torment in the flame, but won't be burnt up. This is supported by the scripture which says, "the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever. And they will have no rest day or night."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
yes....Rev. 20:14,15 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, 15. and whosoever was not found writtien in the I book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

hell wasn't made for mankind. but if you do not want God , then satan doesn't give you a choice, he snatches you. ( 'you'..... as in mankind)

 

[tourist]

Well nobody reads the entire Bible all in one day.
The way its taught in many churches can be a bit of a hodge podge. Its best to go through scripture from Genesis to Revelation and not skip anything out when reading for the first time.

Some people treat it like the yellow pages. Unfortunately for them.

On my 4th complete reading of the bible I did just as you suggested. I highly recommend this. The bible is like a long story from start to finish and I got a better understanding by doing this.

 

[LW97]

The Lake of Fire is NOT seperation from God. See Hebrews 12:29

 

[Ahwatukee]

The Lake of Fire is NOT seperation from God. See Hebrews 12:29

"He (God) will inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,"

God is a consuming fire for both the flesh (Sodom and Gomorrah) and the spirit (Luke 16:19-31).

Hebrews 12:29 does not negate the truth about the wicked being cast into the lake of fire, which is a literal, tangible, place of eternal punishment. Those who are thrown into the lake of fire will have resurrected bodies mete for their punishment.

"But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur."

"And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. "

"And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

The truth is all to evident. Why are you guys always trying to distort scripture?

 

[Lanolin]

I get from the question his disciples asked him about whether he would restore the Kingdom at that time. Furthermore, Sipsey stated as much in post 234 and that's what you seemed to be implying in post 232. If that's not what you meant, apologies, but that doesn't excuse your statement below.


Lanolin, I'm not over analyzing anything. In the passages I cited, neither Paul or Peter are simply saying, "Jesus is coming back in a cloud." They describe the 2nd coming as raging inferno that will forever change heaven and earth as we know them, leaving only righteousness. That's what they plainly say.

Yes however look at what Peter says 2 Peter 3:13

We arent looking toward the fire. We are looking toward the new heavens and earth. The current heaven and earth is, see verse 7, reserved unto fire aginst the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men.

Unless you are in the ungodly men category...I wouldnt worry about it. He comes as a thief in the night for those who arent prepared.

 

[unclesilas]

The lake of fire is interesting. Is it a literal lake of fire? Not according to the following, for the lake of fire is reserved for those whos names are not written in the book of life:


Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practise magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practises falsehood. Rev22:14&15

 

[Journeyman]

The Lake of Fire is NOT seperation from God. See Hebrews 12:29

Well, separation at that time will be annihilation,

A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. Ps.97:3

 

[Journeyman]

Yes however look at what Peter says 2 Peter 3:13

We arent looking toward the fire. We are looking toward the new heavens and earth. The current heaven and earth is, see verse 7, reserved unto fire aginst the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men.

Unless you are in the ungodly men category...I wouldnt worry about it. He comes as a thief in the night for those who arent prepared.

Sis,
Jesus told his disciples to watch for his coming, as a man watches in the night. Be prepared. He didn't mean, "Watch diligently for me to come and destroy you." He meant, "Watch diligently for my appearing...for your deliverance."

And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched....Be ye therefore ready Lk.12:39-40

 

[Journeyman]

The lake of fire is interesting. Is it a literal lake of fire? Not according to the following, for the lake of fire is reserved for those whos names are not written in the book of life:

Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practise magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practises falsehood. Rev22:14&15

Outside of Christ, this is how God views people.

 

[Journeyman]

I don't believe there will be torment without end. If believers would consider, when all are before Jesus's judgment seat,

there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known Lk.12:2

This will be a time of great rejoicing for believers when our faith is realized. But there will be sorrow, weeping, embarrassment, frustration, anger etc. when the wicked from the beginning of creation to the end are judged. <----I believe this is the key to interpreting torment "day and night forever and ever."

The torment isn't without end, but is due to the evil committed throughout peoples lives. When someone says, "Oh....he's been evil forever", we understand it means " his whole life", not that the person is eternal.

And when Satan's existence is exposed before Jesus, we will see that the devil isn't immortal, but Isa created being who will be turned to ashes.

 

[unclesilas]

I heard a man preach once, he said hell is a place where God's presence does not exist. And he thought that would be a truly frightening place to exist in. Jesus said disciples were the worlds seasoning, what are you left with if it is removed?
The preacher said if people end up in such a hell, that was their choice based on the choice they made whilst on earth, life without God