The Law Debacle Resolved

[KennethC]

Most christians I have met are neither armenian or calvinists. Can you cope with that or are we all now not saved?
I know how varied the different options are so telling me yours or saying I put an extreme straw man, is just my view on claiming to know Gods heart on this.

Do we as independent baptists all believe in OSAS? No. A baptist is called a baptist for commitment to a certain type of self government and full immersion baptism. We have members who are more brethren, some anglican, some liberal or universalist, some very fundamentalist, some very charismatic, some conservative. I am sure this maybe too open for you, but hey, this is the body of Christ.

I wonder when you start saying I must be lying, because it appears you do not believe I go to a baptist church.
It is because this is the UK and not texas.

This is not just a UK thing my brother as here in the U.S. we have many different branches of the Baptist church, they do not all teach or believe in the same way.

I was brought up in a Baptist church during my childhood and they were OSAS people, but I also have been in Southern Baptist that is very strict and not OSAS.

I have just recently started going to a Baptist church again and they also are not OSAS or Southern Baptist strict style.

A history study into the Baptist church would also show that when started OSAS was not what was taught in them, and there was even a major wake up call in the 90's to keep Calvinsim out of the churches because of the false teaching in his doctrine.

I myself did not even know of the "isms" tell 2005 when I started doing in depth study on the early church and church history, and these doctrines were shown to me thanks to the Holy Spirit's guidance on when they were started and by who.
Augustine in the 4th century started eternal security, and OSAS coined by Calvin in the 1500's, and so on..............

But to the point not all Baptist churches believe or teach the same !!!

 

[KennethC]

Sarcasm is an interesting point. I have met people who would rip people to shreds, and use put downs, be condescending, hurtful, manipulative etc.

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Matt 7:16

After meeting various people, I recognise this emotional reality. If one is an aggressive combative individual it is unlikely good fruit is going to be found among such reactions.

There are certain mega church pastors who dominated their church like this, so not suprisingly I wonder about their spirituality and teaching.

Exactly which is why I am up front and honest and others know where I stand, as I have repeated multiple times I will not converse with anybody if they can't be respectful, friendly, and edifying in their postings.

Disrespecting, being condescending, hurtful, and manipulative are not fruit of the Spirit !!!

 

[crossnote]

I am not assuming nothing and your own response shows something wrong, as you speak of two separate gospels....There is no such thing as two separate gospels, there is only one !!!

I never said what Jesus taught after the resurrection was not what they taught in the epistles, so I don't know where you get that from because I have always said all that Jesus taught and commanded was upheld and expounded on in the epistles.

The only denying is coming form those who think what Jesus said before His death and resurrection is not for us, that is a lie that if being taught this need to move away from these teachers who are saying that because the Apostles expounded on all that Jesus taught !!!

Gospel means good news. The Gospel of the Kingdom is different than the Gospel Paul preached.
You keep thinking what Jesus taught about the Kingdom principles is the Gospel to the Church.
I'm done repeating myself to you, you can look back at my posts.

 

[crossnote]

And therein lies the resolution to the question... No one is saved by works, but their works will show whether they are truly saved.

A terrible foundation for assurance.
I know I'm saved because of God's promise in His Word.

 

[KennethC]

Gospel means good news. The Gospel of the Kingdom is different than the Gospel Paul preached.
You keep thinking what Jesus taught about the Kingdom principles is the Gospel to the Church.
I'm done repeating myself to you, you can look back at my posts.

Again there is only ONE gospel, not many or two different gospels !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Most christians I have met are neither armenian or calvinists. Can you cope with that or are we all now not saved?

Well thats sad. even when I was a baptist that was not true, But now, most Christians I know are neither Armenian or calvanist. they are just Christian (I know alot of catholic too)

I don't know. can you cope with the fact paul said we would not follow men, but God (He had the same issue of people following me, I am of paul. I am of Apollos. Oh, and the big ticker, I am of Christ.. Wow they must have been spiritual) I Know.

actually, Can we get serious. Lets just see what God says not what men claim?

I know how varied the different options are so telling me yours or saying I put an extreme straw man, is just my view on claiming to know Gods heart on this.

I don;t know. You used a general arminain response to OSAS. what else should i think?

Do we as independent baptists all believe in OSAS? No. A baptist is called a baptist for commitment to a certain type of self government and full immersion baptism. We have members who are more brethren, some anglican, some liberal or universalist, some very fundamentalist, some very charismatic, some conservative. I am sure this maybe too open for you, but hey, this is the body of Christ.

I wonder when you start saying I must be lying, because it appears you do not believe I go to a baptist church.
It is because this is the UK and not texas.

No, I just grew up in the baptist church, I raised saved in a GARBC baptist. Have been to many different fundamental, independent, and even southern baptist churches since then, and in my many travels as a military person.

None of them every believed one could lose salvation. They all believed in eternal security (osas was never a term used, I never even heard that term until I got involved in a christian online chat about 8 years ago.)

But the argument you gave against it? I have heard that argument for about 20 years.. (although in the earlier years it was an argument against eternal security and again, Not OSAS)

so again, would you like to discuss where i get my faith? or discuss what a group of people believe?

 

[KennethC]

A terrible foundation for assurance.

Well go ask Apostle John about that because in 1 John chapters 2-4 he shows believers how they can know they have eternal life abiding in them (assurance).

He clearly shows it is in their actions as in how they walk and treat others !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again there is only ONE gospel, not many or two different gospels !!!

Yep.

Grace through faith.

not the wishy washy works based gospel so many want to pass on as a gospel. which is no "good news" at all.

 

[crossnote]

Again there is only ONE gospel, not many or two different gospels !!!

The Gospel to Abraham included land of Israel.
Do you think that same Gospel applies to you?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

A terrible foundation for assurance.
I know I'm saved because of God's promise in His Word.

Sadly, they like to use James. James did not write his letter so we can look at people and decide if they are true christians or not. He wrote his letter so we could look inside our own lives, and determine, are we hearers only not doers. Who do we see when we look in the mirror. DO we just claim to have faith or is it real..

I think satan wants us to look at others. It makes it easy to think we are good people. because we can always find someone worse than us.

The last thing he wants us to look at is gods standard (perfection) because if we do this, we just may find Christ.

 

[KennethC]

The Gospel to Abraham included land of Israel.
Do you think that same Gospel applies to you?

That was not a gospel, that was the covenant made with Abraham.

"Abrahamic covenant"

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well go ask Apostle John about that because in 1 John chapters 2-4 he shows believers how they can know they have eternal life abiding in them (assurance).

He clearly shows it is in their actions as in how they walk and treat others !!!

yep.

And he said those who leave God were never saved, Whoever lives in sin has never seen or known God.

I know you have me on ignore. But thats ok. The truth is still the truth. whether yuo want to hear it or not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That was not a gospel, that was the covenant made with Abraham.

"Abrahamic covenant"

It was certainly good news to abraham.

 

[crossnote]

Well go ask Apostle John about that because in 1 John chapters 2-4 he shows believers how they can know they have eternal life abiding in them (assurance).

He clearly shows it is in their actions as in how they walk and treat others !!!

tell me, HOW MUCH GOOD WORKS DO YOU NEED UNTIL YOU ARE ASSURED?

 

[crossnote]

That was not a gospel, that was the covenant made with Abraham.

"Abrahamic covenant"

Galatians 3:8 KJV
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying , In thee shall all nations be blessed.

..NEXT

 

[Kefa54]

The idea of a home-group sounds great. Do you worship with a church body also?

Kefa

There are two options here. Either people see the ideas but refuse to acknowledge the ideas being presented or they are so firmly fixed in their minds, the ideas translate completely with all the attached concepts.

JW's have an equally entranched world view. Mention the words and they have their version of everything. As long as the model is bigger than the conversation, no matter alternatives, their ideas revert back to the original whole. One guy said after coming out after 10 years he just could not believe he believed what he did. It was just subtle remodelling the word so everything had a different slant.

It has taken me 4 years of slow drip feeding love centric words and ideas, to slowly bring people round to Jesus centric and overcoming situations in faith in my house group. So it does not suprise me you have a hard time taking on board obedience as working out grace, because the anti-pharisee mindset is a common idea preached in evangelical circles, which is the enemy, or being religious etc. Until you see Jesus sees the good and avoids judgementalism and simple labels, it is easy to get knocked off balance.

The reason I am here so much is because this all is so important and I did not understand how far off base the culture was. The Lord will not let me rest. But maybe you do not see this and it does not mean that much to you, it is just theological points and not your whole existance.

 

[KennethC]

tell me, HOW MUCH GOOD WORKS DO YOU NEED UNTIL YOU ARE ASSURED?

Why do so few of you always got to go resort to speaking on quantity when that has no bearing, it is about the quality of life we live not quantity.

Because each position in the body carries a different amount of responsibilities with them, therefore it would be unfitting to say a standard member of the congregation had to live up to doing the same amount that a preacher is required to show.

Preacher/Minister is a very time consuming role, which is one of the reasons the Word of God says not all should seek to hold this position; Because it requires a lot of attention toward others and importance on proper teaching !!!

 

[KennethC]

Galatians 3:8 KJV
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying , In thee shall all nations be blessed.

..NEXT

This scripture is not talking about the land promise given to Abraham, this is talking that the gospel being told to Abraham on how all nations would be blessed. This is speaking of the same gospel of salvation through Christ that all nations have the right to !!!

 

[PeterJens]

so again, would you like to discuss where i get my faith? or discuss what a group of people believe?

eg - we come from the same backgrounds, similar fellowships, so it makes me laugh.
A thread on how to set or work on living a righteous life, brings us together.

What I like to actually take about is how we express the love the Lord put in our hearts.

But it is late here so I wish you goodnight my brothers

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do so few of you always got to go resort to speaking on quantity when that has no bearing, it is about the quality of life we live not quantity.

Because each position in the body carries a different amount of responsibilities with them, therefore it would be unfitting to say a standard member of the congregation had to live up to doing the same amount that a preacher is required to show.

Preacher/Minister is a very time consuming role, which is one of the reasons the Word of God says not all should seek to hold this position; Because it requires a lot of attention toward others and importance on proper teaching !!!

It has a bearing, if salvation can be lost. there has to be a cut off between good and bad.