The Law Debacle Resolved

[KennethC]

You're simply trying to avoid disclosure by relabeling the 10 commandments as THE MORAL LAW and the perfect law of liberty in Christ.

I am not avoiding nothing, as all I am doing is showing what the bible says as the 10 Commandments have never been done away with, only in the written ordinance form it has been done away.

Instead of accusing me and trying to push falsehoods on me go do a study on this and then come back and we will talk, until then do not respond to me if you don't want to hear what the NT says and shows.

Revelation 9:20-21

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,

that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: <-----1st and 2nd Commandments

Neither repented they of their murders, <------6th Commandment

nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, <----7th and 10th Commandment

nor of their thefts. <----8th Commandment

This is speaking of during the tribulation so if they exist then and they existed before, you can be assured they exist now !!!

 

[Utah]

Well first it is not everybody so that is a lie, and second being part of the majority is not always a good thing.

Especially since we are in the end times and the falling away is what is taking place now, as Jesus Himself said that when He returns will He find any faith left on earth. This is because bad teaching is on the rise and the truth is being taught less and less do to confirming to doctrines of man.

So being in the majority does not make it truth !!!

Jesus Christ is Lord of all, and Savior to those who have faith in Him. Everything else is trivial.

 

[KennethC]

Jesus Christ is Lord of all, and Savior to those who have faith in Him. Everything else is trivial.

This is true but the issue comes down to what does it mean to have faith in Him ???

For I have seen some who want to take and separate what He taught and commanded away from this faith, but Jesus Himself said those who believe in Him are the one's that "do" what He said.

Those who hear only but don't do He says their foundation is built on shaky ground and they will fall away !!!

I really don't care if people don't trust in what I say, but it is sad when they don't even trust in what our Lord said to do !!!

 

[crossnote]

I am not avoiding nothing, as all I am doing is showing what the bible says as the 10 Commandments have never been done away with, only in the written ordinance form it has been done away.

Instead of accusing me and trying to push falsehoods on me go do a study on this and then come back and we will talk, until then do not respond to me if you don't want to hear what the NT says and shows.

Revelation 9:20-21

And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands,

that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: <-----1st and 2nd Commandments

Neither repented they of their murders, <------6th Commandment

nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, <----7th and 10th Commandment

nor of their thefts. <----8th Commandment

This is speaking of during the tribulation so if they exist then and they existed before, you can be assured they exist now !!!

we died, not the law, our relation is a living one to Him...bye.

Romans 7:4 KJV
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Galatians 2:19 KJV
[19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

 

[KennethC]

we died, not the law, our relation is a living one to Him...bye.

Romans 7:4 KJV
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Galatians 2:19 KJV
[19] For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

Yes and these scriptures do not go against anything I have said because look at the parts I highlighted.

We no longer walk as we use to walk but instead we walk by the fruit of the Holy Spirit, which that fruit will not lead one to transgress but establish and uphold the commandments. Apostle Paul shows this in both Romans 3:31 and Romans 13:9-11.

We died to the law because we walk by the Spirit now and not by the flesh, for walking by the Spirit to such there is no law (Galatians 5:23) !!!

This is because the fruit of the Spirit will lead a person to transgression !!!

 

[Least]

You're simply trying to avoid disclosure by relabeling the 10 commandments as THE MORAL LAW and the perfect law of liberty in Christ.

I don't think "Moral Law," is just some label.

Having any part of the truth of God removed from any city, school, court house, nation etc...(take your pick) will have negative consequences.

The video below covers some statistics resulting after having simple prayer removed from schools.

[video=metacafe;6063727/removal_of_prayer_from_school_the_devastating_effe]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/6063727/removal_of_prayer_from_school_the_devastating_effe ct_barton/[/video]

I use this comparison of prayer with the ten commandments because even before prayer was removed from schools not everyone who attended these schools were believers in Jesus. Yet, statics show that the removal of simple prayer had far reaching consequences that have effected everyone.

A recent quote from Oklahoma state attorney Gen. Scott Pruitt after the ruling to remove the ten commandments from the Oklahoma state capital.

"Quite simply, the Oklahoma Supreme Court got it wrong," state Atty. Gen. Scott Pruitt said in a statement. "The court completely ignored the profound historical impact of the Ten Commandments on the foundation of Western law."

Google it.

Back in College before I ever even read the bible through I took some basic legal courses and I was amazed by how linked the ten commandments are to our most basic laws. Removal of the ten commandments is something that is happening all over the country. I have been searching for more statistics that show the implications on different cities/states crime and divorce rates, where the commandments have been removed. I'll add what I find, but if the implications compare to removal of prayer from schools, I imagine they will be quite profound.

Atheists (non believers) around the world will be more than happy to support removal of the ten commandments and will also support anyone who speaks against such shameful moral codes.

The below article is from my home state:


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...26a614-e10c-11e2-86b4-4efb8c53d62b_story.html

The enemy certainly works hard to fight against any sign of the ten commandments being present in any public place. (This should speak volumes.) As you can see from the above link, in places where they fail to have the commandments removed, they do everything in their power to shine a bad light on even the existence of God.

I'm certain that all of what we see taking place now ties directly to what Jesus said here:

(A few different versions from Matt 24:12 for comparison;


Because of the multiplication of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold. (BSB)


Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. (NLT)


And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (KJV)

 

[Utah]

I have seen some who want to take and separate what He taught and commanded...

Take and separate what? What is it about having faith in Jesus that's not good enough for salvation?

 

[RickyZ]

probably because I hold Scripture above 'common sense' and 'rationalism'...you should try it sometime yourself.

I know you don't consider arguments that go against what you think, but do you even hear yourself? You prefer interpretations of scripture that are irrational and make no sense! Sounds like a recipe for confusion and division. And remind me, who is the author of such things? I'm pretty sure it's not God.

 

[KennethC]

Take and separate what? What is it about having faith in Jesus that's not good enough for salvation?

Faith in Jesus is good enough for salvation !!!

The issue is how we define that faith as it is shown in the bible, and the Lord Jesus Himself said that faith consists of coming to Him, hearing what He said, and then going and doing it. All three are to be present for a true faith in Him !!!

Those who hear only the bible states is a dead or deceived faith.

 

[RickyZ]

James described works that demonstrate a true faith as feeding and sheltering a needy brother. Some here define those works as keeping the 10 commandments. What do you say?

I say it is both.

Why why why are you people so hung up on either/or???

 

[Magenta]

Yes and these scriptures do not go against anything I have said because look at the parts I highlighted.

We no longer walk as we use to walk but instead we walk by the fruit of the Holy Spirit, which that fruit will not lead one to transgress but establish and uphold the commandments. Apostle Paul shows this in both Romans 3:31 and Romans 13:9-11.

We died to the law because we walk by the Spirit now and not by the flesh, for walking by the Spirit to such there is no law (Galatians 5:23) !!!

This is because the fruit of the Spirit will lead a person to transgression !!!

I was going to put a like on this post until I got to your last sentence, and I have to wonder if you made a mistake by leaving a word out or not? How does the fruit of the Spirit lead one to transgression? I can understand how the Spirit leads us to understand what transgression is.

 

[RickyZ]

You're equating saved money and good deeds to God's saving grace in Jesus Christ? If God sees our good deeds as filthy rags, then chances are He sees money as the Enemy's fecal matter.

I think Jesus made the analogy first when he told the parable about the servants and what they did with the master's talents (Matthew 25:14-28).

 

[RickyZ]

Seriously, y'all! Don't you ever get tired of arguing the same points with the same people? Are you really expecting a miracle and suddenly your opponent sees life just like you do? Or is it sheer ego?

And this isn't giving you permission to spend another 50 pages convincing me that you are justified.

I do it because it keeps my mind on God and helps sharpen my sword. But you're right, it does eventually go to far and become a useless exercise.

 

[ember]

I say it is both.

Why why why are you people so hung up on either/or???

well, I think I am seeing that alot of posters think it is both...I certainly do and others as well I am pretty sure

I think the tripping point, is that applying any sort of works to faith or salvation is adding to Christ's work

OSAS is actually a term I became familiar with on Christian forums...some Christians really do fall and not because they planned it...sometimes there are mitigating circumstances and they desperatley need help or someone to grab a hold

I see judging here as the big problem...I am better than you should be a part of NO Christian's mantle but even though that may not be said openly, you do the impression that is actually what is thought

 

[gb9]

I say it is both.

Why why why are you people so hung up on either/or???

in simple terms, one camp says you have to do works to get or keep salvation, the other camp ( which I am in ) say we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. that is the most simple answer I can give.

 

[KennethC]

I was going to put a like on this post until I got to your last sentence, and I have to wonder if you made a mistake by leaving a word out or not? How does the fruit of the Spirit lead one to transgression? I can understand how the Spirit leads us to understand what transgression is.

Yeah sorry, I don't know if it is my computer or the site not acting right do to Windows 10 but sometimes my words are either changed or left out when posting.

What I meant is: This is because the fruit of the Spirit will NOT lead a person to transgress !!!

Sometimes I catch it and edited it but sometimes I don't as posting in multiple threads, thank you for seeing that for me!!!

 

[RickyZ]

They aren't proof, otherwise you would be able to say how much 'proof' is needed to be assured of eternal life. But you can't seem to quantify it. So all you have is a passively condemning statement that you cling to.

The only proof any will have is faith.

And all you have is a single-scripture thought that totally ignores the entirety of scripture on the subject. Single-scripture theology is always a red flag to me. It says you aren't taking in the whole picture.

 

[ember]

but the 'debacle' is anything but solved for the intents and purposes of this thread

 

[KennethC]

in simple terms, one camp says you have to do works to get or keep salvation, the other camp ( which I am in ) say we do good works BECAUSE we are saved. that is the most simple answer I can give.

Again nobody is saying the bolded first half of your post !!!

Please move past this............................

 

[Magenta]

Yeah sorry, I don't know if it is my computer or the site not acting right do to Windows 10 but sometimes my words are either changed or left out when posting.

What I meant is: This is because the fruit of the Spirit will NOT lead a person to transgress !!!

Sometimes I catch it and edited it but sometimes I don't as posting in multiple threads, thank you for seeing that for me!!!

You are welcome, and that does make the most sense and how I thought it should read

PS you are a fast typer LOL