The Law Debacle Resolved

[Utah]

to add. You want to be a child of obedience, thus you keep running the race to maturity, You just are not to proud to admit, You can not live up to Gods standard of obedience, Which I think everyone seems to forget. Gods standard is perfection.

yet every time I say that, I am excusing my sin and wanting to live in sin.

Nonsense.. None of us, you included are saying this.

Thank you, Brother. Amen to this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Can you describe the "falling away" that is revealed in scripture? That has to be true because it's God's words not man's. What would cause that to happen? Now to clarify, if anyone is truly saved, and truly abides in Christ, then I don't believe they will fall away from Christ, but abiding in Christ is every day, not just a thing of the past.

do you understand there are two ways to abide in Christ spoken of in scripture (using the term)

One you are planted in him, and he gives you life eternal it is his power

the other you must abide in him to produce fruit. Yet they are not related to each other (one is justification, one is sanctification?

 

[Shoshanah]

all I can think is he is confused why seem to be standing by those who teach salvation can be lost (of works) and those who believe in faith alone (pure faith, not mere belief). So maybe he is trying to find out where you stand?

If he were, he would not be so presumptuous with accusations that have no substance. The inquisitors are never righteous by their assumptions.
Frequently, while trying to love one’s neighbor and share the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, Christians receive some tirade against believers in Christ. The Inquisition is used as some kind of general-purpose club with which to bludgeon Evangelical Christians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why do you, as a brother in Christ find the need to ask this question? You know. If anyone blasphemes the Holy Spirit, he will never be forgiven, and he is in danger of losing his salvation. Is this some kind of drill? Anyone knows who has read teh Word this peril taught us all. I still am in wonder as to why any believer would find a need to ask this.

because to many who claim to be believers believe this is true.

so what was your answer? A person who really has faith would never hesitate to answer this question,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Once more, if all here follow Jesus Christ's example, and do all He teaches, this debate is moot.... I choose to be His child of obedience as do all who understand His teachings. It is getting late, and soon I will be hitting the sack. I may breeze through later, but if not, see you all tomorrow. God bless all who know Jesus Christ, amen.

No, it is no moot. There are too many impostors who look and act like jesus on the outside, but on the inside they are dirty as the day they were born.


oh and by the way, No one can act like jesus he was perfect..

 

[atwhatcost]

Again? Here are those who just have to attack others for not believing exactly as they do, and then call it love/my duty/for truth/for new believers.

Don't answer this post. Look inside yourselves and ask the big question, "Does what I'm doing here glorify God?"

Honestly? It's ego outside of God.

 

[crossnote]

Once more, if all here follow Jesus Christ's example, and do all He teaches, this debate is moot.... I choose to be His child of obedience as do all who understand His teachings. It is getting late, and soon I will be hitting the sack. I may breeze through later, but if not, see you all tomorrow. God bless all who know Jesus Christ, amen.

Here we go again with the example schtick. Walked on water lately? Fasted 40 days and nights in a desert?, healed any physically blind eyes? Pleeeze.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

My obedience is loving the Lord our God with all my heart and soul, etc. Its about having faith! I am obedient in my faith, and it is not I who came to God, but God who came to me, thus, I have salvation, always and forever, all to the glory of God, not me.

Our faith is in him and his way, and since his way NEVER Fails us, We will never lose faith in him or his way..

thats why we can never lose salvation, He never gives us a reason to leave, Only those who never truly tatsed of his perfect love would even dare to leave, but they do, unless they repent, and truly become saved and tast his true love.

 

[Shoshanah]

do you understand there are two ways to abide in Christ spoken of in scripture (using the term)

One you are planted in him, and he gives you life eternal it is his power

the other you must abide in him to produce fruit. Yet they are not related to each other (one is justification, one is sanctification?

So then I ask myself 'are these things opposed to each other since they are both in scripture concerning true believers in Christ? That causes confusion to me.

Utah quoted this story of the tax collector and the proud Pharisee.
I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Then Paul writes;
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Justified seems to be the starting point for sanctification.

 

[crossnote]

What does this faith do after being born again?..................It SHOULD remain in trusting what Christ did and is doing.

Trust in the work that HE did and is doing, not in the work that we do. If, we as believers can make this distinction our service is not a requirement or obligation...........but a privilege.

Believing that we can lose what Christ did for us, is a faith that has fallen away from Him and His work and is a subtle motive switch to relying on our works instead of His work.

Yes at the judgment of the sheep and goats, the sheep weren't even aware of their good works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So then I ask myself 'are these things opposed to each other since they are both in scripture concerning true believers in Christ? That causes confusion to me.

Utah quoted this story of the tax collector and the proud Pharisee.
I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Then Paul writes;
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Justified seems to be the starting point for sanctification.

Amen sis..

Hebrews also speaks on this.

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Justification (literally declared innocent of wrong doing, or declared righteious, or declared perfect) is a one time event, Sanctification is a lifetime event which can even have its ups and downs.

The problem with a few in here, is they get sanctification and justification mixed up. To them, justification is not a one time even,t but also an ongoing even, they are related.

 

[crossnote]

If he were, he would not be so presumptuous with accusations that have no substance. The inquisitors are never righteous by their assumptions.
Frequently, while trying to love one’s neighbor and share the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, Christians receive some tirade against believers in Christ. The Inquisition is used as some kind of general-purpose club with which to bludgeon Evangelical Christians.

Hmm, one of Jesus main method of teaching was questioning the assumptions of His disciples.

 

[gb9]

How about blessing those who don't. People who are healthy have no need for a doctor, but rather it is the sick who need a doctor. Share some blessings with those in need. And don't be smart and say, "God bless you, Utah," because we can all see that coming a mile away.

this is what legalists totally miss: we are supposed to love and bless everyone. that does not mean that we excuse or support sinful behavior, but being nice to someone does condone their conduct. Christ and the women at the well in John is a prime example of this.

 

[Gr8grace]

Yes at the judgment of the sheep and goats, the sheep weren't even aware of their good works.

Agreed Sir! Thats why this idea of "fruit inspectors" is so dangerous. Most believers "deeds" are done in secret and are invisible to most.........even ourselves.

 

[Shoshanah]

I have to go and get some work done. Thank you eternally-grateful, Utah, Least, Peterjens, and JaumeJ. You have all said good things and I am blessed by your input, when things were posted with concern, peace, and no controversy. It's a little hard to pick it out sometimes, but discrimination isn't always a bad thing when looking for the truth in each individual post. Pray for HeRoseFromTheDead.

 

[crossnote]

Agreed Sir! Thats why this idea of "fruit inspectors" is so dangerous. Most believers "deeds" are done in secret and are invisible to most.........even ourselves.

Right, we aren't even to look to our good works or law keeping, we are to look to Christ in full trust and dependence, He promises from there to bear fruit through us. Probably there's a song called Empty Vessels.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Right, we aren't even to look to our good works or law keeping, we are to look to Christ in full trust and dependence, He promises from there to bear fruit through us. Probably there's a song called Empty Vessels.

thats where grace comes in, It is always forward looking, and does not have to be scared if we fall back a few steps while moving forward..

 

[JaumeJ]

I responded to your direct question. Now what are you talking about? Do you not know what questions you are asking?

Can you lose your salvation? Yes or no? If yes, how?

Have we been talking about blaspheming the Holy Spirit all this time? No, we haven't. Stick with the subject at hand. Can you lose your salvation? You seem to think that people who don't think and act like you either lose it or never had it to begin with. Answer the question as it relates to what we've been discussing.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I responded to your direct question. Now what are you talking about? Do you not know what questions you are asking?

this is being deceptive, You did not actually answer it, you beat around the bush a little. but no one could ready your answer and know what you believed.

 

[JaumeJ]

Several times in this thread I have signed off, "God bless all who are in Jesus Christ, and all others too." This means I am blessing everyone, all here in the thread and those who are not seeking Jesus Christ. Do you not understand what I have been signing off with? It is blessings for all. Just because I do not agree with some of the people here does not mean I love them. I am not about to be "all softness, fuzzy and warm" with children who fault obeying Jesus Christ, and I do not believe there is any teaching to the contrary.

How about blessing those who don't. People who are healthy have no need for a doctor, but rather it is the sick who need a doctor. Share some blessings with those in need. And don't be smart and say, "God bless you, Utah," because we can all see that coming a mile away.