The law of God is not the problem, it's sin!

[Blain]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YacUejbtQ6I

There is a major difference between being a sinner and being sinful, we have a sinful nature the fact that we struggle against the flesh everyday is proof enough that we have this nature inside us. This is not to say that we are doomed to sin we have free will and thus we choose to sin or not however eventually we will stumble we will mess up because we are not perfect even in Christ we are not perfect but this is exactly why God is made strong in our weakness. We were never meant to be perfect we never were intended to bear the burden of being sinless not sinning even once this only puts chains on us and makes what Jesus did on the cross pointless. He freed us from the chains of being doomed in our sins but then the mind of a perfectionist of a sinless Christian while being free of the original chains then puts on himself a new pair of chains.

i don't need to be sinless and perfect to be a true believer, I am not ashamed or afraid to admit I am a sinner I am imperfect I have darkness in me and I am lacking. People can post all the scriptures they want of being holy being perfect being sinless they can tell me I am a slave to sin that I am in chains that I am even not saved but I follow my heart and my hearts eyes are always locked on God he is all my heart sees my heart is blind everything else to everything around to the path I walk to the rocks that would make me stumble to the fears and the noise around me because I only see him and so I know I can trust what my heart says. If my heart was not solely locked on him then I could not trust it but he speaks to me the most in my heart and his words to me are that I don't need to be perfect and sinless to be his child nor do I need to what others would consider holy and righteous to be strong in him, he whispers to me i will show you the way

 

[Blain]

Ah the go to verse for ongoing sinners. All that verse does is confirm that all have in fact sinned, but it should not to be used as a crutch to support ongoing sin.

Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” As it is also written in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,”

You didn't answer my question why did you evade it?

 

[Blain]

I disagree, she is well known for it.

I have known her much longer than you have so I can tell you that no she is not

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I have known her much longer than you have so I can tell you that no she is not

Again, I respectfully disagree.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

You didn't answer my question why did you evade it?

I did, perhaps it's not the answer you liked?

 

[Blain]

I did, perhaps it's not the answer you liked?

I asked you what do you think he meant in saying if any one claims to be without sin the truth is not in them, you didn't answer this question you just evaded it by posting your comment and another scripture that supports your view on sin. I have been in many debates so I know the evading tactics very well

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here's a post on the curse of the law...

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in Romans 7:12 “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.” So what was the curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here in Deuteronomy 27:26 “Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen.”

The first part of this curse has to do with sin as it is written in Romans 7:10-11[SUP] “[/SUP]And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[SUP]11 [/SUP]For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.” Again we see the law was ordained unto life, but the curse came when man could not keep the law because of the weakness of his flesh and sin. So who’s the bad guy here, the law, or sin? If you answered sin then you would be correct.

Now for the second part of the curse, which is swearing to the oath. It is written Galatians 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.”

After Moses had read the law, all the blessings and the curses, the people then bound themselves to the oath by agreeing to keep everything that was written in the law. The word oath in Hebrew can also be defined and shown as the word curse in scripture. And swearing to an oath can also be shown as binding ones soul to a curse as in Nehemiah 10:29 “They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse, and into an oath, to walk in God's law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the Lord our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes;”

And in Daniel 9:11 “Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.” And here is where the curse came in by swearing themselves to the oath in Numbers 30:2 “If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.”

And so being unable to perform the vow to God to keep the whole law, because of the weakness of the flesh and of sin, then the curses mentioned in the law were put into effect.

Which is why Jesus said Matthew 5:33-37 “Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:[SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:[SUP]35 [/SUP]Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.[SUP]36 [/SUP]Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.[SUP]37 [/SUP]But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.”

And here again also in James 5:12 “But above all things, my brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.”

And a word to the wise, if you ever have to go to court and are asked to forswear yourself to an oath, or any other vow or oath for that matter…don’t do it! Peace.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I asked you what do you think he meant in saying if any one claims to be without sin the truth is not in them, you didn't answer this question you just evaded it by posting your comment and another scripture that supports your view on sin. I have been in many debates so I know the evading tactics very well

And my answer was right here...

Originally Posted by InSpiritInTruth

All that verse does is confirm that all have in fact sinned

 

[ember]

"I disagree, she is well known for it.*"

**********************

well that is slander....God considers that sin

"She" simply points out the way legalists distort the truth and then "She" is called names by the same legalists

Smiley faces are not the actual face of the attacks you make on myself and others here

It is possible to discuss a topic without a personal insult or attack

Discussion is not teaching and you appear to be trying to teach

This is a forum...it is not a teaching platform for those who can't get a real gig outside these forums

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Here's a post that proves OSAS and the lie that ongoing sin will not effect eternal security....

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be set free from the bondage of sin and death.

 

[ForthAngel]

It is possible to discuss a topic without a personal insult or attack

You're such a hypocrite. I haven't seen you in one discussion where you haven't been going off on someone or treating them badly. All you know how to do is spit venom and accuse others of doing the very same thing you are doing. You're such a venomous witch.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

"I disagree, she is well known for it.*"



God considers that sin

I know, that's why you should stop doing it.

 

[ember]

Many believe the law itself is “the curse” but scripture tells us Gods law is holy, just, and good in*Romans 7:12*“Wherefore the*is*, and the*commandment*, and*, and**curse? The curse of the law came in by 2 ways, the first is shown here inDeuteronomy 27:26*“*be he that confirmeth not all the words of***to do them.*And all the people shall say, Amen.”


************************

Perhaps the MANY you speak of should step in here and back you up because I have NEVER met one nor I have I seen them on these forums!

The Bible states that JESUS BECAME A CURSE for us when he hung on the tree (cross) because it is written

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed*is*every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. GALATIANS 3:13


For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed*is*every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. GALATIANS 3:10


So we can easily see that it is NOT the law that is cursed....The law CARRIES a curse...of death..for anyone who breaks ANY part of it! CURSED is EVERY one that continueth not in ALL things which are written in the book of the law to do them

It is people who put themselves BACK under the law that are under a curse

The law is GOOD..how can it be anything BUT good when GOD is the One who gave it?

Twisting what the Bible says about itself is, however, BAD

 

[Gr8grace]

Here's a post that proves OSAS and the lie that ongoing sin will not effect eternal security....

I have heard so many lies and false doctrine being spread about how ongoing sin will not effect your eternal security in Christ. I am going to prove this idea totally false by the words of Jesus. If you truly believe in Jesus Christ, then you will also believe and continue in His words right? Well here goes….

John 8:31-36 “Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;[SUP]32 [/SUP]And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.[SUP]33 [/SUP]They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.[SUP]35 [/SUP]And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.[SUP]36 [/SUP]If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

These words of Jesus are so plain and simple a child could understand them, but sinners will still argue against this very plain and simple truth because they themselves are still committing sins and are servants of sin, and thus they will also try to justify themselves and ongoing sin.

Let’s break this down. Jesus said those who commit sin are a servant of sin, and a servant abides not in the house forever. That verse right there crushes this false notion that ongoing sin does not compromise eternal security. The truth is right there in front of your face. A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER!

People, believing in the Truth according to the words of God has the power to set you free from the bondage of sin. Jesus Christ is the very Word of God, which is Truth and is that Eternal Life. Believe in what Jesus said above, and not the lies and false doctrine of carnally minded men. Believe Jesus when He said you can indeed be set free from the bondage of sin and death.

These were Jews. Arguably, the most moral and legalistic people on the planet. The were not out "sinning."

The were living in THE sin............the old sin nature. they were legalistic, very moral people. and Were relying on their "works", which is bondage.

In verse 33 they said that they were never in bondage to any man........wrong. they were in bondage for many years under Egypt and are under of bondage of Rome at the time of this verse.

Their in bondage to their made up laws. Not their overt sins. they couldn't carry a bed on the sabbath or spit on the dirt on the Sabbath.

If we are operating in some relative righteousness of our own, we are in bondage to THE sin......our sin nature.

And one more FACT. not all believers are disciples and abide in Christ. they stay a babe, by their own negative volition to Him and His word..........but they are still saved.

And there is eternal security in the verses that you posted. you want to see it?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus was made to be a curse, Jesus was made to be sin....the curse=sin

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Jesus was made to be a curse, Jesus was made to be sin....the curse=sin

2 Corinthians 5:21
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

In Mark 9:43-48 weread “And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:[SUP]44 [/SUP]Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.[SUP]45[/SUP]And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:[SUP]46 [/SUP]Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.[SUP]47 [/SUP]And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:[SUP]48 [/SUP]Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”

Their worm that does not die is sin. Jesus said in John 8:24 “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

So the removal of sin is necessary so we do not die in our sins. And that is where Jesus came in for us, who was also made to be sin for us. 2 Corinthians 5:21 “For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

Which is also why Jesus is shown as a worm in Psalm 22:6 “But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.”

The word worm there in Psalm 22 is Strongs H8438 shown in the following manner: scarlet (34x), worm (8x), crimson (1x). Bible usage…worm, scarlet stuff, crimson, worm - the female 'coccus ilicis', scarlet stuff, crimson, scarlet, the dye made from the dried body of the female of the worm "coccus ilicis".

There are some interesting symbolisms found in this worm “coccus ilicis” But the message here in the color is significant in unlocking the mystery of why we see a Red Dragon, and scarlet colored beast in scripture.
The reason being is because the Lord showed sin in mankind as red, just as Adam means “earthy, red”

Notice what the Lord says here in Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

Our old sinful man was to be crucified with Jesus, thus destroying the body of sin. Romans 6:6 “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”

And when we are raised up a new man in Christ and washed, we are given new white garments which are meant to be kept clean from being spotted by the flesh.

 

[ember]

Even though I posted scripture that plainly shows the curse is putting oneself back UNDER law, spirit-truth prefers stating sin is the curse


Legalism hard at work again

 

[Mitspa]

I don't think many folks are paying attention to spirit-truth...seeing he does not seem to pay much attention to what is written in Gods Word

 

[PeterJens]

I find all of this interesting.
One thing that has always struck me about the depth of peoples relationship with Jesus is love.
Do you love God with everything you are?

I am not meaning manufactured love, or trying to understand God, or working yourself up through prayer and praise, or being an aesthetic, I mean when you hear about God does your heart leap, when people praise Him do you feel you are home.

I have my ebbs and flows, but His views are staggering, His desire overwhelming but His anger so so fierce.
Trying to prove anything to Him means you do not know Him well. He chooses to listen, to reach out and find us.

Wealth, health, relationships are like flowers in the field, one day here the next gone. If a preacher promises blessing by giving him money, he has just denied the Lord. Every tragic situation, the Lord is also there, but we are involved in the cause. In our hearts we blame Him, rather than cry out to see, to know the blessing that brought us to this place.

Reject even once love, and you have missed Him. Turn away in pain, hide through fear, stumble through ignorance, He is there for you. I know in whom I have believed and on that last day is able to raise me from the dead. In His Kingdom do I walk, why would anyone deny this is not so. So I wonder how illusory and empty things have got that the Lord matters so little to many of you. Maybe the spirit you follow is your desires, nothing more, in a christian wrapping.

 

[PeterJens]

So few are legalists today, more are romantics and celebrity seekers.

The biggest legalists are the ex-group self confessed legalist gurus who see it everywhere, in every word issued by any stranger, just one sentence and they know. I had one guy carry on down this line for 3 days until finally they accepted I did not believe what they said I did. That is judgementalism, not facts.

Now facts are Copland is a heretic as well as Benny Hinn. They both preach wealth, etc. and have openly taught another gospel. It is not even a point of controversy. Yet to judge these people is evil, but me sharing my testimony of walking with Jesus condemns me as a legalist. And those who judge like this say you should never judge or condemn another.

See the irony. No evidence, yet I have an evil spirit. I do not hold with a certain theology, not part of salvation or redemption but I am lost. Do I say these people are lost or evil? No. But when they condemn me and say the work of the Holy Spirit in my life is of satan, when all I share is gospel reality, that is serious problems.

I talk simple love and relationships, part of giving and receiving with another, being aware of emotions and that is wrong.
So on the psychological scale of paranoia things are shinning up red.

Make observation as to peoples closed mindedness to ideas or discussion. That is slander and telling lies.
Sharing about gaining everything in Christ while loosing ones life in this world. Again told lies.

How is it when I just share my experience I am called a liar, unless it speaks of another world than the one that is in their heads, so it has to be a lie, or their ideas in their heads are a lie. Well I know which is true, and it is what I am sharing.
But do you really want Jesus or this delusion?