The Letter to the Romans...

[konroh]

Justification leads to sanctification in the sense that we are called to be holy, and I do believe that sanctification is a natural result of justification. New life has been imparted and we will walk in this new life to some extent, but the beauty of justification as Paul presents it is that there is so much free grace in justification that the first question one will ask when presented with the beautiful freedom and complete simplicity of being declared completely righteous simply by faith is this:

So I can continue to sin and grace will abound? (Rom. 6:1)

Of course the answer is me genoito, may it never be. How can we who died to sin live in death? However, if we do sin and continue in sin, the absolutely amazing truth is that we are still declared righteous, justified.

Shall we sin occasionally? (Rom. 6:16) May it never be, how can we who have been freed from sin still be its slaves? But the amazing truth is that if we do sin we are still God's own, and sanctified (in a positional sense).

 

[Kerry]

Justification leads to sanctification in the sense that we are called to be holy, and I do believe that sanctification is a natural result of justification. New life has been imparted and we will walk in this new life to some extent, but the beauty of justification as Paul presents it is that there is so much free grace in justification that the first question one will ask when presented with the beautiful freedom and complete simplicity of being declared completely righteous simply by faith is this:

So I can continue to sin and grace will abound? (Rom. 6:1)

Of course the answer is me genoito, may it never be. How can we who died to sin live in death? However, if we do sin and continue in sin, the absolutely amazing truth is that we are still declared righteous, justified.

Shall we sin occasionally? (Rom. 6:16) May it never be, how can we who have been freed from sin still be its slaves? But the amazing truth is that if we do sin we are still God's own, and sanctified (in a positional sense).

We must understand the sin nature. When we place our faith in the work of the cross the sin nature becomes dormant. It is not done away with it is just dormant. Just like when the children of Israel took the promised land and some cities they did not conquer were left to be a thorn in their flesh, The sin nature is with us and will be with until our redemption is complete. The sin nature revives in us just as it did in Israel. When our faith is deterred from the cross the sin nature revives and leads us to bondage. Just like Israel placing their trust in Egypt and not God.

 

[Hoffco]

Konroh, you have no idea of how God saves us from our sin. Not in our sin, from our sin. Try getting a handle on the new birth first. which is the first step in salvation. start with the unknown verse Romans 6: 22, try to quote it, before I do.? can you quote it.? This shows how shallow your teachers are that have taught you, I have never found a Christian that can quote Rom.6:22. But most all Christian can quote Rom.6 23. How about, Elin and homward, kerry, etc. who ever is reading this,? can you quote 6:22? Sorry, Times up, Please look it up and learn it. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

as you read Rom.6 you see it has nothing to do with our faith, but our works of holiness. because it is first about the new birth 6:1-14. The powerful baptism of the Spirit kills the old sin nature in us and gives us a new holy nature. Then 6:15-21 tells us that we are the servants of the one we obey. we were married to sin, but then we chose to divorce sin and marry righteousness, the truth, named Jesus, became our new master and sin must be gone. Then 6:22-23 concludes Paul's arguments for righteous living, which is needed to show our parenthood is God. " But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end , everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Obvious, we have to conclude that this free gift of God is not totally free, it has moral strings attacted to it, we must be holy in our life style. This is a far different from the cheap easy gospel of "faith only" with no works. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Hoffco]

The Bible teaches 3 stages in Regeneration: 1. New birth 2. the victorious life 3. the perfection after death and resurrection, Glorification. Glorification . The 3 stages in Justification are: 1. By Grace, a pure gift Rom3:24 2. By faith, a little less a gift, Repent and be baptized, give testimony of faith, , an outward sign of confession is required , receiving Jesus is required. Jh.1:12 3. By works, James 2:24 God has appointed us to suffer for our faith and it is said to make us "Worthy of the kingdom of God".2Thess.1:5 Jesus said " by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned." Mt.12:37 ,, How clearer can the Bible be.? Love Hoffco

 

[Elin]

The Bible teaches 3 stages in Regeneration: 1. New birth 2. the victorious life 3. the perfection after death and resurrection, Glorification. Glorification . The 3 stages in Justification are: 1. By Grace, a pure gift Rom3:24 2. By faith, a little less a gift, Repent and be baptized, give testimony of faith, , an outward sign of confession is required , receiving Jesus is required. Jh.1:12 3. By works, James 2:24 God has appointed us to suffer for our faith and it is said to make us "Worthy of the kingdom of God".2Thess.1:5 Jesus said " by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned." Mt.12:37 ,, How clearer can the Bible be.? Love Hoffco

You are confused.

 

[homwardbound]

No, it is not either/or, it is both/and.


1Co 1:2 - "to those sanctified (imparted holiness, positional) and called to be holy
(present on-going work). . ."

Eph 1:4 - "he chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless
(on-going work) in his sight. . ."

Eph 5:25-27 - "Christ gave himself up for he church to make her holy, cleansing her by
the washing with water through the word (on-going work), and to present her to himself
as a radiant church without stain or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."

Holiness is both imparted (1Co 1:2) because of Christ, as the result (not basis) of God's choosing,

as well as the believer's personal practical sanctification through the obedience of faith (1Co 1:2;

Eph 1:4, 2:25-27), which is the meaning of to "continue in your faith, established and firm."

Since they are one and the same holiness, where no practice of holiness is found,

there has been no choosing by God and rebirth, which imparts holiness.

Called and sanctified a done deal from God it is what it is and there is no more work on my part, I am now rested from my work as God is and hjas been from the creation where he rested on the seventh day, I think we are talking the same so answer me this?

I know we all work at something or another to get whatever it is we are after right?
Okay then when called sanctified, born again in God who gets all the credit for what one does after this born again? God or me?

 

[homwardbound]

Aahhh my cup o tea Romans. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. Romans is about the cross and how it applies to our everyday life and how it applies to our sanctification. We can only live by Gods moral code by focusing our faith on the work of the cross and by doing so the Holt Spirit has the legal right to conform us to the word of God and not of our own doing but By the Spirit. It's not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit saith The Lord. Amen

All God, none of man, all God, and all man does is change his n=mind from unbelief to belief, to be started on the renewal Journey in how one thinks from mans view to God's view
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

To see what God's view is, is not necessarily easy, since we all have been taught to work hard.
And the only thing I see to work hard at, is to work hard to enter God's rest Hebrews 3 and 4

 

[faroukfarouk]

All God, none of man, all God, and all man does is change his n=mind from unbelief to belief, to be started on the renewal Journey in how one thinks from mans view to God's view
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

To see what God's view is, is not necessarily easy, since we all have been taught to work hard.
And the only thing I see to work hard at, is to work hard to enter God's rest Hebrews 3 and 4

For Paul the mind is very important; see also Philippians 4.

 

[Elin]

No, it is not either/or, it is both/and.

1Co 1:2 - "to those sanctified (imparted holiness, positional) and called to be holy
(present on-going work). . ."

Eph 1:4 - "he chose us in Christ before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless
(on-going work) in his sight. . ."

Eph 5:25-27 - "Christ gave himself up for he church to make her holy, cleansing her by
the washing with water through the word (on-going work), and to present her to himself
as a radiant church without stain or any other blemish, but holy and blameless."

Holiness is both imparted (1Co 1:2) because of Christ, as the result (not basis) of God's choosing,

as well as the believer's personal practicalsanctification through the obedience of faith (1Co 1:2;

Eph 1:4, 2:25-27), which is the meaning of to "continue in your faith, established and firm."

Since they are one and the same holiness, where no practice of holiness is found,

there has been no choosing by God and rebirth, which imparts holiness.

Called and sanctified a done deal from God it is what it is and there is no more work on my part,

Everything regarding God's elect is a done deal since before the foundations of the world.

But the done deal is accomplished in time, in a process.

Christ's work on the cross was a done deal before the foundations of the world.
But it had to be accomplished in time, in a process.

I am now rested from my work as God is and hjas been from the creation where he rested on the seventh day, I think we are talking the same so answer me this?

I know we all work at something or another to get whatever it is we are after right?
Okay then when called sanctified, born again in God who gets all the credit for what one does after this born again? God or me?

Two things:

1) It is by the power of grace that we practice the obedience of faith which makes us holy,
without which no one will see the Lord (Heb 12:14).

The NT instructs us to be holy (Heb 12:14).

2) All those who stand positionally in sanctification also practice sanctification by the obedience of faith.

So if we live a life of sin (do not practice sanctification), we were never in the position of sanctified; i.e.,
we were never born again.

Our practice of sanctification is by the power of God's grace,
so as always, it is all of God.

Butt here is a process in which we must engage,
just as Jesus had to engage in a process.

 

[homwardbound]

Justification leads to sanctification in the sense that we are called to be holy, and I do believe that sanctification is a natural result of justification. New life has been imparted and we will walk in this new life to some extent, but the beauty of justification as Paul presents it is that there is so much free grace in justification that the first question one will ask when presented with the beautiful freedom and complete simplicity of being declared completely righteous simply by faith is this:

So I can continue to sin and grace will abound? (Rom. 6:1)

Of course the answer is me genoito, may it never be. How can we who died to sin live in death? However, if we do sin and continue in sin, the absolutely amazing truth is that we are still declared righteous, justified.

Shall we sin occasionally? (Rom. 6:16) May it never be, how can we who have been freed from sin still be its slaves? But the amazing truth is that if we do sin we are still God's own, and sanctified (in a positional sense).

The mystery of the Gospel of God given to us by Son's finished work for us, so please let none of us take this for granted, and learn what trust to Father alone means through Son's perfect work for us to stand in by Faith, and see what amazing works God performs through us as God did through Son here on earth. Our turn to love as he loved by following the lead of the truth in the Holy Spirit given to us to follow not lead as Christ did nothing without Father's lead. This very same Holy Spirit is given to us a gift, and any works to get a gift is no longer a gift is it?
Oh the mystery, oh what a fine line, in crossing over here and now from Death to life, by Faith in Christ, delivered to Father through what Christ has done, if we will continue in the Faith, it is done form us as it is for Father through Son.
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[faroukfarouk]

Everything regarding God's elect is a done deal since before the foundations of the world.

But the done deal is accomplished in time, in a process.

Christ's work on the cross was a done deal before the foundations of the world.
But it had to be accomplished in time, in a process.


Two things:

1) It is by the power of grace that we practice the obedience of faith which makes us holy,
without which no one will see the Lord (Heb 12:14).

The NT instructs us to be holy (Heb 12:14).

2) All those who stand positionally in sanctification also practice sanctification by the obedience of faith.

So if we live a life of sin (do not practice sanctification), we were never in the position of sanctified; i.e.,
we were never born again.

Our practice of sanctification is by the power of God's grace,
so as always, it is all of God.

Butt here is a process in which we must engage,
just as Jesus had to engage in a process.

Ephesians chapter 1 also is relevant here.

Blessings.

 

[homwardbound]

Konroh, you have no idea of how God saves us from our sin. Not in our sin, from our sin. Try getting a handle on the new birth first. which is the first step in salvation. start with the unknown verse Romans 6: 22, try to quote it, before I do.? can you quote it.? This shows how shallow your teachers are that have taught you, I have never found a Christian that can quote Rom.6:22. But most all Christian can quote Rom.6 23. How about, Elin and homward, kerry, etc. who ever is reading this,? can you quote 6:22? Sorry, Times up, Please look it up and learn it. Love to all, Hoffco

[h=3]Romans 6:22[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)


[SUP]22 [/SUP]But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We have been born again, dead to flesh sin, keeping it in context to Romans 6, how shall we sin since we have now are born again, dead to flesh and alive to God
This verse is past tense
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, a done deal, so what is this problem in one has to work for what is already done in and through Christ. The only work I see is to work hard to understand and see it is by belief 100% in in what Christ has done for us and enter God's rest, but without this belief in God's finished work one does not enter rest
This is what God is telling us to rest from our works as he has done from the foundation of this world. When one sees this one rests and yet does twice as much than before, all now in a joy, love, peace, and righteousness, no matter what. No more stress, content in all things, thanks to God the Father, for Son

 

[homwardbound]

For Paul the mind is very important; see also Philippians 4.

Thank you, appreciated
re-read it, thank you to keep me in prayer and I to you as well

 

[homwardbound]

Everything regarding God's elect is a done deal since before the foundations of the world.

But the done deal is accomplished in time, in a process.

Christ's work on the cross was a done deal before the foundations of the world.
But it had to be accomplished in time, in a process.


Two things:

1) It is by the power of grace that we practice the obedience of faith which makes us holy,
without which no one will see the Lord (Heb 12:14).

The NT instructs us to be holy (Heb 12:14).

2) All those who stand positionally in sanctification also practice sanctification by the obedience of faith.

So if we live a life of sin (do not practice sanctification), we were never in the position of sanctified; i.e.,
we were never born again.

Our practice of sanctification is by the power of God's grace,
so as always, it is all of God.

Butt here is a process in which we must engage,
just as Jesus had to engage in a process.

Understood and I see it as a tree that say an apple tree. When the apple is first born in and through the branch, is it a perfect apple?

if you say it is for it is an apple correct, it is perfect, yet there is a problem is there not and what is that problem?
It is not ripe, mature yet and what grows that apple to maturity? The tree right?

So as it is with God, trust God to grow us up to Maturity.
[h=3]Hebrews 5:10-6:6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [SUP]2 [/SUP]of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And this will we do, if God permit. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [SUP]5 [/SUP]and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [SUP]6 [/SUP]if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


[h=3]Philippians 2:13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]13 [/SUP]For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
If we will just trust God we will be what God desires

 

[homwardbound]

Everything regarding God's elect is a done deal since before the foundations of the world.

But the done deal is accomplished in time, in a process.

Christ's work on the cross was a done deal before the foundations of the world.
But it had to be accomplished in time, in a process.


Two things:

1) It is by the power of grace that we practice the obedience of faith which makes us holy,
without which no one will see the Lord (Heb 12:14).

The NT instructs us to be holy (Heb 12:14).

2) All those who stand positionally in sanctification also practice sanctification by the obedience of faith.

So if we live a life of sin (do not practice sanctification), we were never in the position of sanctified; i.e.,
we were never born again.

Our practice of sanctification is by the power of God's grace,
so as always, it is all of God.

Butt here is a process in which we must engage,
just as Jesus had to engage in a process.

Another way to see this process is to look at a Caterpillar, of the worm family. One day it spins a cocoon and goes through Metamorphosis, and then when that cocoon breaks a butterfly comes out right?
See the correlation in being born again and born again?
Once a butterfly will that Butterfly ever be a worm again?
That is what born again is.
God puts us in the Cocoon and we get metamorphosis from God and as long as we do not give up our works completely the cocoon does not break open for we are not ready yet to let go and let God finish the work he began in us to become as like that Butterfly is.

 

[Elin]

Understood and I see it as a tree that say an apple tree. When the apple is first born in and through the branch, is it a perfect apple?

if you say it is for it is an apple correct, it is perfect, yet there is a problem is there not and what is that problem?
It is not ripe, mature yet and what grows that apple to maturity? The tree right?

Well, actually the apply must "respond" to the tree to mature.

If it is diseased, ruined, etc., and does not "participate" in the process of maturity by the tree, it rots.

So the apply has to "participate" in the process of maturing to reach maturity by the tree.

So as it is with God, trust God to grow us up to Maturity.

Make that "trust God to grow us up to maturity through the obedience of faith."

If we are not participating (through obedience of faith) in the process, we will rot like the apple.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Well, actually the apply must "respond" to the tree to mature.

If it is diseased, ruined, etc., and does not "participate" in the process of maturity by the tree, it rots.

So the apply has to "participate" in the process of maturing to reach maturity by the tree.


Make that "trust God to grow us up to maturity through the obedience of faith."

If we are not participating (through obedience of faith) in the process, we will rot like the apple.

Put differently, I suppose, there is no standing still in the Christian life.

Blessings.

 

[Elin]

Another way to see this process is to look at a Caterpillar, of the worm family. One day it spins a cocoon and goes through Metamorphosis, and then when that cocoon breaks a butterfly comes out right?
See the correlation in being born again and born again?
Once a butterfly will that Butterfly ever be a worm again?
That is what born again is.
God puts us in the Cocoon and we get metamorphosis from God and as long as we do not give up our works completely the cocoon does not break open for we are not ready yet to let go and
let God finish the work he began in us to become as like that Butterfly is.

Yes, and the transformation from a caterpillar to a butterfly is a process, not an instantaneous event,
just as the transforming of one's mind (Ro 12:2) is a process, not an instantaneous event.

Practical sanctification is likewise a process, however, our positional sanctification is an instantaneous
event, like our rebirth and justification (declared in rightwiseness with God, by forgiveness of sin) are
instantaneous events.

Both instantaneous events (rebirth, justification) then necessarily express themselves
(as conception necessarily expresses itself in pregnancy and birth)
in the process of faith's obedience, which sanctifies.

The necessary practical sanctification of the Christian is not passive, but participatory.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, and the transformation from a caterpillar to a butterfly is a process, not an instantaneous event,
just as the transforming of one's mind (Ro 12:2) is a process, not an instantaneous event.

Practical sanctification is likewise a process, however, our positional sanctification is an instantaneous
event, like our rebirth and justification (declared in rightwiseness with God, by forgiveness of sin) are
instantaneous events.

Both instantaneous events (rebirth, justification) then necessarily express themselves
(as conception necessarily expresses itself in pregnancy and birth)
in the process of faith's obedience, which sanctifies.

There's also a positional aspect of sanctification, right? which comes into effect immediately at the new birth; Paul addresses many of his readers as 'saints', those who in principle, positionally, are set apart to God.

But the ongoing process of sanctification is also vitally important, as you say.

Blessings.