The Letter to the Romans...

[Elin]

Hoffco, I am game for you tom start it up at Romans 6, learning is at and for us all. Wait another week out of consideration, and am praying for Yahshua, all in Father's will not mine

Let him start another thread.

Let's not hi-jack Yahsua's thread.

 

[Hoffco]

'Nothing I have said is guessing, "conjecture" homward your last post just called me a thief and a illegitimate, bast--d. You say ,I am lost and I need the "truth" to set me free. Elin, you speak of me as a criminal, "hi jacking" yahshua's thread, not very nice of you. I only want to help. Please watch out don't curses, bless others. Love to all, Hoffco , Doug

 

[Elin]

'Nothing I have said is guessing, "conjecture" homward your last post just called me a thief and a illegitimate, bast--d. You say ,I am lost and I need the "truth" to set me free. Elin, you speak of me as a criminal, "hi jacking" yahshua's thread, not very nice of you. I only want to help. Please watch out don't curses, bless others. Love to all, Hoffco , Doug

You are confused.

 

[Hoffco]

I just was listening to an old friend and mentor, Rev. Albert N. Martin. He started his pastoral career as a C&MA pastor at North Caldwell church in the early sixties. Later he founded the Trinity Baptist church in Montville N.J.. He is a man after my own heart, in his salvation teachings. If you look up: SERMONS by Albert n. Martin, Trinity Baptist Church, Montville N.J. Please listen to his 2 part sermon on THE CARNAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, it is exactly as I teach. It was preached in 1964 while I was a student at Northeastern Bible College Essexs Fells, N.J.. This is what is wrong with salvation teaching of the last 50 plus yrs.. There are only two classes of persons in this world: 1. the unsaved, the carnal, in the flesh; AND 2. The saved, the Spiritual, those who walk in the Spirit. There is not a third class called the "Carnal christian". Love to all.Hoffco, Doug

 

[Elin]

I just was listening to an old friend and mentor, Rev. Albert N. Martin. He started his pastoral career as a C&MA pastor at North Caldwell church in the early sixties. Later he founded the Trinity Baptist church in Montville N.J.. He is a man after my own heart, in his salvation teachings. If you look up: SERMONS by Albert n. Martin, Trinity Baptist Church, Montville N.J. Please listen to his 2 part sermon on THE CARNAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, it is exactly as I teach. It was preached in 1964 while I was a student at Northeastern Bible College Essexs Fells, N.J.. This is what is wrong with salvation teaching of the last 50 plus yrs.. There are only two classes of persons in this world: 1. the unsaved, the carnal, in the flesh; AND 2. The saved, the Spiritual, those who walk in the Spirit. There is not a third class called the "Carnal christian". Love to all.Hoffco, Doug

This has nothing to do with justification (positionally) before sanctification (practically).

 

[homwardbound]

Let him start another thread.

Let's not hi-jack Yahsua's thread.

Okay, however, I am game no matter all in love to each, let me know if anyone will pm me please as I depend on what is emailed tro me from here it does this everyday as to threads I have replied to, So please pm me if you will or someone else will, much growth has come from each person posting, whether agreed or not, just seeing from a different angle to learn

 

[homwardbound]

'Nothing I have said is guessing, "conjecture" homward your last post just called me a thief and a illegitimate, bast--d. You say ,I am lost and I need the "truth" to set me free. Elin, you speak of me as a criminal, "hi jacking" yahshua's thread, not very nice of you. I only want to help. Please watch out don't curses, bless others. Love to all, Hoffco , Doug

Sorry you are interpreting wrong brother. If tha tis what I thought of you, that is exactly what i would say, and I have not thought this way of you. I am not here to condemn you or anyone. god decided not to condemn me, how can "I" in response condemn you or anyone. Sorry you are offended, is there more wrong here than meets the eye? Do you wish me to ignore you? Love you no matter what

 

[homwardbound]

I just was listening to an old friend and mentor, Rev. Albert N. Martin. He started his pastoral career as a C&MA pastor at North Caldwell church in the early sixties. Later he founded the Trinity Baptist church in Montville N.J.. He is a man after my own heart, in his salvation teachings. If you look up: SERMONS by Albert n. Martin, Trinity Baptist Church, Montville N.J. Please listen to his 2 part sermon on THE CARNAL CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE, it is exactly as I teach. It was preached in 1964 while I was a student at Northeastern Bible College Essexs Fells, N.J.. This is what is wrong with salvation teaching of the last 50 plus yrs.. There are only two classes of persons in this world: 1. the unsaved, the carnal, in the flesh; AND 2. The saved, the Spiritual, those who walk in the Spirit. There is not a third class called the "Carnal christian". Love to all.Hoffco, Doug

Brother and are not your remarks Carnal, or have been to me? Saying that I have said something I have not said?

'Nothing I have said is guessing, "conjecture" homward your last post just called me a thief and a illegitimate, bast--d. You say ,I am lost and I need the "truth" to set me free. Elin, you speak of me as a criminal, "hi jacking" yahshua's thread, not very nice of you. I only want to help. Please watch out don't curses, bless others. Love to all, Hoffco , Doug

Love you no matter, I am only here to shared and be shared with, not condemning anyone, I do not have that right

 

[Hoffco]

Hoffco, just love you, all you said in this post is conjecture, I have not judged anyone, you ar anyone Brother. I havbe onolly posted what I see as truth in my own experience in living out the word, taught to me by God, and you are doing the same, trying to sort out truth over error.
Does the truth set you free?
So that means to me if the truth sets me free and if I am in bondage then truth has not yet set me free and I would need to re-think my truth is that correct?

So as I grow, you grow, and everyone that is in God thanks to Christ, are by God's love and Mercy being taught by God personally to separate truth from error right?

John 8:32 and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

So truth sets one free, then error puts and keeps one in bondage right?

John 8:36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be freeindeed.

I believe and trust God to sort it all out and set you free in him by him and for him,

Just reading Romans 8, exemplifies the fight between our unredeem3ed flesh and the Spirit of God brother and is very hard to grasp, seeing how our personal flesh is not willing to even be reckoned dead and wants to try to obey:
Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

The battle is very clear in the word:
Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

To Homwardbound, Please, read what you said to me (and Elin, because we both teach that the progression, growth, in the Christian life is a cooperation between God and the saved person, we are not "passive" but active, Elin said "participatory" I think, these two words were her exact words, and agree with her.) Therefore you have slapped both of us , saying we are not letting the "truth" set us free. You say we need to rethink our truth so we get out of bondage. we are working in the "flesh" and can not please God. And we are thieves only come to destroy you who operate by "faith" only, and don't try to obey, because obeying is always of the sinful "flesh", accor. to you. Why would you quote these verses to me (us) if you don't think they apply to me(us).? I think, you think, I am unsaved, working on works trying to save my self. I am a sinner saved by the powerful transforming GRACE of GOD SEEKING to live as God has taught me, and , in a real sense, I am saving my self, by "working out" my my sal. as God is "working in" His sal. to me. BUT, all others ,on this thread, think that God's salvation "regeneration" is "positional only"; BUT, no one here believes, as you do, that sanct. is done by "faith" only. Elin, is this not a true evaluation of the situation.? Love to all, Hoffco, Doug ps. Julie, may be more like me than the rest of you.

 

[CWJ]

Ok, so here’s my attempt at starting a contextual read of the book/letter of Romans...although, I’m not quite sure of the proper format. I've been thinking about it for a little while now and I’m not sure what would work best so I’m just gonna try something. My goal is to try to establish an unbroken chain of context in simple language as best as possible.

I was thinking I could post through Romans like we do on “The Bible verse by verse” thread, only with a few special guidelines...

Thread Guidelines:​

1. Complete Thoughts

Passages from Romans must be posted in completed thoughts, regardless of chapter or verse markings, whether it’s a single line or several verses long.

[For example, Romans 1:1-6 can be comprehended as a single thought. While Romans 1:7 starts a separate thought.]

2. Format

• Previous Context – Quote the previous conclusion/point that you're following.
• Next Passage – Post the next portion of passage (complete thought) with verses
• Conclusion/Point – As simple as possible what is Paul saying (following the context)?

3. Agreeing or Disagree

• If you agree with an overall interpretation, “like” it...but please DON’T REPLY with agreement or commentary (to try to keep posts to a minimum).
• I’m going to continue through as I have the time, but if you disagree with an overall interpretation of a passage, please post your alternative of that passage following the same format. Add “Alternative Interpretation to…” or something that lets readers know. But PLEASE refrain from splitting hairs unless the overall interpretation hinges on it.
• If you’d like further elaboration of an interpretation request it here. But if you want to argue against an interpretation of a passage, please reference the portion and start a new thread about it (at least we’ll be able to pinpoint the source of our disagreements).
• If you are asked to further explain an interpretation, you’re encouraged to reply with additional scriptural references if you choose to reply.

4. If a better format would work I’m open for suggestions. This is more or less by trial and error.

---

Feel free to use whichever translation you want, but in hopes of keeping it a simple read I'm using ESV (though I'm partial to KJV).

Hi there,

I was hoping to join in this consecutive study of Romans but can't find the last portion considered in all the volume of entries! Can someone point me to it, please?

 

[Elin]

Hi there,

I was hoping to join in this consecutive study of Romans but can't find the last portion considered in all the volume of entries! Can someone point me to it, please?

Yahshua's last post was on Ro 6:1-4, at post #330.

The thread is probably not what you are expecting; i.e., lots of disagreement.

 

[CWJ]

Thank you Elin

 

[CWJ]

Much as I would like to take part, I just can't see the wood for the trees!

It was a good idea of Yeshua, but it doesn't work out in practice.

 

[Karraster]

I agree CWJ.

 

[Hoffco]

To CWJ and Karraster, others, Yahshua had a good game plan, "if time allows" him, AS, he said before, He is now to busy at work, I assume. We were following his rules to the "t"; But he has not been about to keep up. Therefore we need to go on with out him. I or Elin could take take the leader role , Yahshua has abandon ship. Love to all , Hoffco ps. Romans has a much need message for the apostate church of today. If you read my posts ,you can see the Heresy I am fighting.

 

[homwardbound]

To Homwardbound, Please, read what you said to me (and Elin, because we both teach that the progression, growth, in the Christian life is a cooperation between God and the saved person, we are not "passive" but active, Elin said "participatory" I think, these two words were her exact words, and agree with her.) Therefore you have slapped both of us , saying we are not letting the "truth" set us free. You say we need to rethink our truth so we get out of bondage. we are working in the "flesh" and can not please God. And we are thieves only come to destroy you who operate by "faith" only, and don't try to obey, because obeying is always of the sinful "flesh", accor. to you. Why would you quote these verses to me (us) if you don't think they apply to me(us).? I think, you think, I am unsaved, working on works trying to save my self. I am a sinner saved by the powerful transforming GRACE of GOD SEEKING to live as God has taught me, and , in a real sense, I am saving my self, by "working out" my my sal. as God is "working in" His sal. to me. BUT, all others ,on this thread, think that God's salvation "regeneration" is "positional only"; BUT, no one here believes, as you do, that sanct. is done by "faith" only. Elin, is this not a true evaluation of the situation.? Love to all, Hoffco, Doug ps. Julie, may be more like me than the rest of you.

Never said you personally, just shared what i went through and go through learning truth from God. Why are you taking it offensively is God working on you over something particular, in you accusing self over a behavior you do not like?
Brother God just love you, start from there while in the midst of adversity, working out your own salvation in fear and trembling yet understand it is not you that sets you free ever. It seems you have taken the steering wheel, looking for Sanctification after Justification and won't get it until you accomplish, so it seems Brother is this true?

 

[homwardbound]

To Homwardbound, Please, read what you said to me (and Elin, because we both teach that the progression, growth, in the Christian life is a cooperation between God and the saved person, we are not "passive" but active, Elin said "participatory" I think, these two words were her exact words, and agree with her.) Therefore you have slapped both of us , saying we are not letting the "truth" set us free. You say we need to rethink our truth so we get out of bondage. we are working in the "flesh" and can not please God. And we are thieves only come to destroy you who operate by "faith" only, and don't try to obey, because obeying is always of the sinful "flesh", accor. to you. Why would you quote these verses to me (us) if you don't think they apply to me(us).? I think, you think, I am unsaved, working on works trying to save my self. I am a sinner saved by the powerful transforming GRACE of GOD SEEKING to live as God has taught me, and , in a real sense, I am saving my self, by "working out" my my sal. as God is "working in" His sal. to me. BUT, all others ,on this thread, think that God's salvation "regeneration" is "positional only"; BUT, no one here believes, as you do, that sanct. is done by "faith" only. Elin, is this not a true evaluation of the situation.? Love to all, Hoffco, Doug ps. Julie, may be more like me than the rest of you.

Maybe view these words as help not condemnation?

 

[RedTent]

Alternative.

Paul's concern in Romans is with the Mosaic law.
His use of "law" refers to the Mosaic law only.

The time frame to which he refers when there was no law is from Adam to Moses.
There was no Mosaic law from Adam to Moses.

There was no transgression of the Mosaic law between Adam and Moses.
And where there was no transgression of the Mosaic law, sin was not taken into account;
i.e., there was no sin committed.
For in Romans, "sin" means transgression of the Mosaic law.

In Ro 1:16-17, God's power for salvation is the gospel, because in it is revealed a righteousness
from God that is by faith only.

Alternative.

1. The sin to which Paul is referring that entered the world causing death was Adam's
trespass only, against God's law, "Thou shalt not eat of it."

2. With the Mosaic law came more actual trespassing of God's law because now
there was a promulgated law to trespass, and it activated sin (7:7-9).

And now at last, Paul moves from righteousness "imputed" through faith only in 5:18-19
to righteousness "imparted" in sanctification, through the obedience of faith.

Going back, this is the first where the thread went off track. It is a place our church has the most trouble, it is in the Jew/gentile question, and there shouldn't be a question. I should think it would be straight forward and simple. All missionaries to the gentiles taught that it wasn't the letter of the law, the physical doing of rituals that counted with God, it was the spiritual understanding. Scripture has always using physical happenings to explain the spiritual, and has always pointed to that the spiritual is the point of it all. That is the theme of the book of Isaiah. It doesn't mean scripture cancels any other scripture. We can't put the OT under "Judaism" heading and get rid of it, we are to know that we are given the Holy Spirit to lead us, not the rituals.

Can't we just forget this, say there is a controversy here, and get on with Romans 6? It is a wonderful chapter on how to live for Christ.

 

[chubbena]

To CWJ and Karraster, others, Yahshua had a good game plan, "if time allows" him, AS, he said before, He is now to busy at work, I assume. We were following his rules to the "t"; But he has not been about to keep up. Therefore we need to go on with out him. I or Elin could take take the leader role , Yahshua has abandon ship. Love to all , Hoffco ps. Romans has a much need message for the apostate church of today. If you read my posts ,you can see the Heresy I am fighting.

Has he abandoned ship or is this thread so derailed he couldn't find it?
His last post in this thread was Feb 3.

 

[Elin]

Alternative.

Paul's concern in Romans is with the Mosaic law.
His use of "law" refers to the Mosaic law only.

The time frame to which he refers when there was no law is from Adam to Moses.
There was no Mosaic law from Adam to Moses.

There was no transgression of the Mosaic law between Adam and Moses.
And where there was no transgression of the Mosaic law, sin was not taken into account;
i.e., there was no sin committed.
For in Romans, "sin" means transgression of the Mosaic law.

In Ro 1:16-17, God's power for salvation is the gospel, because in it is revealed a righteousness
from God that is by faith only.

Alternative.

1. The sin to which Paul is referring that entered the world causing death was Adam's trespass only, against God's law, "Thou shalt not eat of it."

2. With the Mosaic law came more actual trespassing of God's law because now
there was a promulgated law to trespass, and it activated sin (7:7-9).

And now at last, Paul moves from righteousness "imputed" through faith only in 5:18-19
to righteousness "imparted" in sanctification, through the obedience of faith.

Going back, this is the first where the thread went off track.

Have you supported your opinion with exegesis from Ro showing that it is off track rather than on track?

Opinion must be supported with demonstration consistent with Rom if it is to have merit.