The Lie of Parental Forgiveness: Rebuilding the Veil Jesus Broke

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

God's "parental forgiveness" started the moment we became His children and that happened by the Spirit of Adoption. In Christ we already have that forgiveness from our Heavenly Father, hence the veil being torn. Sin is a thing of the past, consider yourself dead to it and risen with Christ (symbolized in baptism).

Yo Ben, check out how Christ holds these churches righteous deeds against them.

But I hold against you because you have left your first love. Revelation 2:4

But I hold a few things against you because you have there those who hold fast to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel, to eat food sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality. Revelation 2:14

But I hold against you because you tolerate the woman Jezebel, the one who calls herself a prophetess, and teaches and deceives my slaves to commit sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. Revelation 2:20​

Awesome!

 

[Willie-T]

WOW.
I guess our blessed hope is on shaky ground then.
Your theology is messed up.



Something for you to study: anthropomorphism

Are you denying the Bible said God repented 28 times? Does that mean He quit sinning 28 times? Or that He was going in the wrong direction - doing things wrong - and had to do a 180 to get on the right path?

 

[FreeNChrist]

Actually you don't say much.. Ben is the only '''hyper grace '' guy actually saying anything of worth.

I remember this --- when there was a fight in the school playground a circle would gather around to watch. now nearly always there was the sly and sleaked boy who would throw in a kick or punch from the sidelines. this boy was the lowest of all, and usually if caught would be punished worse by the teachers than the fighters..because of his slyness and sleakedness. This boy reminds me of you in the forums freeNchrist... please read Ben's post he is on your side and he can teach you a thing or 2

I say as much or as little as is necessary. And still it goes right over your head........

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Actually you don't say much.. Ben is the only '''hyper grace '' guy actually saying anything of worth.

I remember this --- when there was a fight in the school playground a circle would gather around to watch. now nearly always there was the sly and sleaked boy who would throw in a kick or punch from the sidelines. this boy was the lowest of all, and usually if caught would be punished worse by the teachers than the fighters..because of his slyness and sleakedness. This boy reminds me of you in the forums freeNchrist... please read Ben's post he is on your side and he can teach you a thing or 2

Bwahahaha! That's it exactly! The one-line wonder.

 

[KennethC]

Are you denying the Bible said God repented 28 times. Does that mean He quit sinning 28 times? Or that He was going in the wrong direction - doing things wrong - and had to do a 180 to get on the right path?

He did turn around from doing something Willie-T...............

He was originally going to destroy people in most those cases until another pleaded with Him not to, so He changed His mind and didn't carry it out but let them live instead.

The action He was going to take was changed because He repented !!!

 

[blondieindahouse]

Are you denying the Bible said God repented 28 times. Does that mean He quit sinning 28 times? Or that He was going in the wrong direction - doing things wrong - and had to do a 180 to get on the right path?

Im denying that you understand the gospel. Your input really did floor me!
Something for you to study: anthropomorphism

 

[Grace777x70]

And that is what we do..we "repent" change our mind from living independently and turn to Jesus and believe in Him and what He has done....repentance according to Jesus after John the Baptists was to believe in the "good news "..AKA the gospel..

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

He did turn around from doing something Willie-T...............

He was originally going to destroy people in most those cases until another pleaded with Him not to, so He changed His mind and didn't carry it out but let them live instead.

The action He was going to take was changed because He repented !!!

 

[KennethC]

And that is what we do..we "repent" change our mind from living independently and turn to Jesus and believe in Him and what He has done....repentance according to Jesus after John the Baptists was to believe in the "good news "..AKA the gospel..

Mark 1:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God,
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel."

Go look at every other place in the NT where repentance is mentioned and you will see it is directly tied to sins !!!

It does not refer to just going from unbelief to belief, notice the scripture you gave has both in it. It says repent and believe making it two separate things, you however make it one.

AND makes them separate things to do, not one and the same !!!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And Grace777, this is serious business. If we have never believed on the Lord Jesus Christ for our salvation and believe it is jesus+our deeds.....we are in serious trouble because it is in fact those DEEDS that the unbeliever is judged for.

Sin~~ἁμαρτία, ας, ἡ .....hamartia

Deeds~~ἔργον, ου, τό....ergon.....work, labor, action, deed

All sin is paid for, but the deeds/self righteous works...........human good is NOT.

I was going to post something based on this post, when I saw something I haven't seen before.

And it has been granted to her that she be dressed in bright, clean fine linen (for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints). Revelation 19:8​

Righteous deeds
G1345 δικαίωμα dikaioma (dik-ai'-o-mah) n.
1. an equitable deed

This word is the Greek word for righteous with a ma suffix, which means effect. So in essence it mean righteous effect. This is the same word used in Romans 8:4.

That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

or

That the righteous effect of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4​

Since the law demands righteous deeds, doing the law would produce righteous effects, or righteous deeds. Now we know that the law works wrath to those in the flesh, but to those who walk in the spirit the righteous effect, or righteous deeds, required by the law are fulfilled in those who walk according to the spirit.

 

[Willie-T]

He did turn around from doing something Willie-T...............

He was originally going to destroy people in most those cases until another pleaded with Him not to, so He changed His mind and didn't carry it out but let them live instead.

The action He was going to take was changed because He repented !!!

Yes, you actually used the correct term, yourself....CHANGED HIS MIND.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is the New Covenant now.....

Let's look at it through what scripture has to say about repentance concerning preaching the gospel. I know we have been taught differently through our religious upbringing and beliefs handed down to us. Let's let God's word speak life to us.

Peter preached the gospel of the grace of Christ. to Cornelius ..no repentence used

Acts 10:43-44 (NASB)
[SUP]43 [/SUP] "Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[SUP]44 [/SUP] While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

They were not told to "repent" here. I love how the Holy Spirit "falls upon " them as soon as they hear about the forgiveness of sins proclaimed to them because of Christ!

Peter got in trouble with the jewish Christians when he went back...he says in Acts 11:17,18

Acts 11:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] "Therefore if God gave to them the same gift as He gave to us also after believing in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God's way?"
[SUP]18 [/SUP] When they heard this, they quieted down and glorified God, saying, "Well then, God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life."

What was there repentance?...they changed their mind toward God and had faith in Jesus.

Notice that it was God that granted them repentance. New Covenant repentance is not something we conjure up on our own nor is it a work we produce.

2 Tim 2:24-25 says that God may grant them repentance so that they may know the truth. God grants the repentance..not a work we do on our own.

Paul preached the gospel of grace here in the only recorded time in scripture.Acts 13:38-39 (NASB)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] "Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,
[SUP]39 [/SUP] and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.

Again ..no telling them to "repent"...but Paul did tell them .." urged them to continue in the grace of God"

Both of the examples we have of New Covenant preaching about the gospel of grace had NO words of telling people to repent.

These clearly show that "repentance " was not told to them

So, another point..does repentance mean to be sorrowful for your sin? Judas "repented "

Matthew 27:3-5 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.

The word used here for "repent" is not the same word for normally used for repentance ( which is = change your mind in greek )..the word used here is completely different..it means to be sorrowful.

So, repentance does not mean "turn from sin '..it means change your mind and turn to God and believe in Jesus and what He has done.

There is a change after we come to Christ and His life in us transforms us.

We do not say it's ok to sin...grace says the exact opposite...and maybe no matter how many times we say it..people will only "hear" what they want to believe.

We all need to repent every day as we hear the beauty of our Lord proclaimed!

Brethern ...I urge you to believe in the awesome greatness and splendor of our Lord's magnificent finished work on our behalf!

Go look at every other place in the NT where repentance is mentioned and you will see it is directly tied to sins !!!

It does not refer to just going from unbelief to belief, notice the scripture you gave has both in it. It says repent and believe making it two separate things, you however make it one.

AND makes them separate things to do, not one and the same !!!

 

[BenFTW]

Hi Ben,

Your paragraph started of well, then you went into that 'New hyper grace re interpretation error'. Don't you know that christians believe they are dead to sin?? very elemenatry stuff ben its the part of the ABC's... but you lack something, your missing out, I would say intentionlly leaving out some great biblical teaching.

If Christians knew that, truly had a grasp, this wouldn't be a thread. Sin confession for forgiveness (or relational standing) is at odds with your statement that Christians believe they are dead to sin. Being dead to sin has positive consequences that makes void sin confession.

Such a suggestion doesn't make sense, but then again the Apostle Paul told people they weren't ready for meat and still needed milk (as you say, "elementary stuff"). Being dead to sin very well may be professed by many Christians but living out the principle might just be a rarity. This isn't said self-righteously but in terms of this whole debate revealing it isn't an understood doctrine. Hence why sin confession is preached contradicting the Gospel and its method of dealing, and having victory over, sin.

 

[Willie-T]

On this "repentance" thing so many of us don't seem to get..... The people all the Apostles were telling to "repent" were NOT degenerate perverts nor drunken sinners. Almost all of these were good Jewish people. People who very seriously and deeply loved God, and who worked hard every day not to break God's laws, and to please God. They were ALREADY leading good, clean live.

But that is just the point. THEY worked hard to make themselves acceptable. And the Apostles are asking them to change their minds about what makes them acceptable. They are being asked to change their minds about THEM being the ones who earn the acceptance by their acts. They are being asked to change their minds to understanding that true righteousness and acceptance comes ONLY from trusting in Jesus to do it - every bit of it - FOR us.

 

[Grace777x70]

REPENT

 

[coby]

It seems I am preaching the Gospel. This is usually the accusation or concern raised when the Gospel is preached. "Is this news truly that good!?" Yes, it is the Good News. God's grace isn't a license to sin and someone who uses God's grace to justify sin doesn't understand His grace. A license to sin is not the fruit of hyper-grace, but a false allegation brought against the forgiveness and liberty preached by grace believers. The fruit reveals itself.

The word of God says that "Sin shall not have dominion over you for you are not under the law but grace." This scripture alone discredits all allegations that hyper-grace endorses licentiousness. God's grace sets us free from sin's dominion, it doesn't give us a license to sin.

Yes I understand that, but I hope you agree with me that I had to confess and repent of those sins. I was backslidden. Some even say that still then you're saved. If you hate your brother you're in darkness. I was in darkness and living in sin after 20 years of really being saved.

 

[phil36]

If Christians knew that, truly had a grasp, this wouldn't be a thread. Sin confession for forgiveness (or relational standing) is at odds with your statement that Christians believe they are dead to sin. Being dead to sin has positive consequences that makes void sin confession.

Such a suggestion doesn't make sense, but then again the Apostle Paul told people they weren't ready for meat and still needed milk (as you say, "elementary stuff"). Being dead to sin very well may be professed by many Christians but living out the principle might just be a rarity. This isn't said self-righteously but in terms of this whole debate revealing it isn't an understood doctrine. Hence why sin confession is preached contradicting the Gospel and its method of dealing, and having victory over, sin.

Hi Ben,

Again, you dont understand...Justificaton from Sanctification. That one time act of renewing the heart of stone... and your synergistic walk with Christ..

The only people who contradict the true gospel and how hat works in the life of the believer are the hyper grace guys. I mean I believe what Jesus taught, and the whole of scripture... and what Believers have always believed. Not some exagerated grace movement..who remodel and reinterpret scripture to 'fit' their message and all those bits they don't like they just explain away and ignore rather thn what believers have always done...embrace the whole truth.. not just the bits you like.

What you have to remember is..I truly believe I am dead to sin and alive in Christ true believers have Always believed that....its only recently that a terrible and serious error of teaching has evolved and you embrace that error.

 

[phil36]

REPENT

View attachment 142905

True believers have always known what repent means... The exagerated grace (hyper grace) have to redefine it, pretty much how governments have redifened marriage, in order to fit their error.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy....however there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies )our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. ( this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you ...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive )..= done deal Again it's the Spirit of the Lord doing it...passive - something is being acted upon you - not you doing it.

Acts 26:17-18 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' ( perfect passive )



Sanctification to our "religious minds" could mean a lot of different things to different people as it depends on the religious beliefs formulated from our backgrounds....like no doing the "biggie sins"..and could also be things like..no smoking..no drinking..no going to church..no reading your bible every day..no praying for an hour each day.....no going to a movie...reading a newspaper...no being a servant of God...the religious mindset says...no doing "what I don't do.."..

 

[Grace777x70]

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is already in us. There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

In other words..Be who you really are in all your conduct!

 

[crossnote]

Of course not. I know how they mean it, but this showes that that teaching of you don't have to confess and repent when you sin is nonsense just like once saved always saved. I did this myself. I could have gone to hell if my mom hadn't prayed for me and if I hadn't converted again.

I do believe once a person is born again they needn't be born again-again. But I also hold that we, as born again Christians when we sin and are convicted need to confess and ask for forgiveness.