The "Man of Sin" Prophecies

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miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
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Well how does the Almighty judge? By allowing satan to devour them, right?

Satan is the dog of judgment and testing. When the Almighty wants to judge or test, satan is allowed to do what he does (because the Almighty tempts no man to sin). So casting out satan from heaven = The Almighty's judgment upon the world...why...because satan was cast to the world having great wrath. There was no more place in heaven found for satan. He was literally removed from his home and position, unwillingly.

When the Messiah said "the prince of this world is cast out" (John 12:31) he meant "from heaven to earth", and he said this when he was about to begin his great work of The Passion, as you point out.

So if we know this is exactly what happened to satan when the Messiah was crucified & ascended to heaven, we can perfectly sync this event with Revelation 12 where we read the dragon was cast out of heaven and began chasing the "woman" who gave birth to the manchild (The Messiah). But when he fails to swallow her up, the dragon gives his power to the beast that rises from the sea in Revelation 13, the "man of sin". The "man of sin" then begins to persecute the seed of the woman: the saints.

In 2 Thessalonians 2 we read that the "man of sin" is loosed with all of satan's power of lying signs and wonders.

Satan is the spirit that looses the "man of sin" upon the world.

All three passages synchronize.
Satan was from the beginning, sir...his work was to be a covering angel in the garden...but, he didn´t want to cover...he was cast out from the beginning, and prior to JESUS even coming into the world...

Which is why JESUS said, I saw satan fall like lightning...please reread Revelation 12....
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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I think I already responded to this I know that satan will try to imitate the HOLY TRINITY...but, because he can not manifest himself fully in one, he will reveal himself in piecemeal: hence, the false prophet and the beast
You know I don't think I have ever heard that he would imitate the holy trinity at least I don't remember hearing of it but it was shown to me in a dream.... I knew it as the unholy trinity in the dream. I am guessing the antichrist is the son satan the father but who is the spirit, the false prophet maybe?
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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With respect, there are a few assumptions you're making that I differ with so we seem to be crossing wires....that's not to say we should agree in our positions but I'm trying to avoid confusion. So in order to get on the same page, can you clarify a few things for me:

1. Do you believe people will stop having children at some point in the end-times or do you believe wrath will not fall on the children of the wicked along with those wicked?

2. Do you believe all children will be raptured to heaven before the Almighty's wrath?

3. Where do you believe we currently are in eschatology?


----my position----

- I believe 70AD was the start of the time of the great tribulation of the Jews, where they'd be persecuted for many days. No stone in 70AD.

- I believe we are currently well past the two legs of iron and have been living through the 10-toed kingdoms since the fall of both sides of the Roman empire, so for at least 1000+ years. No heavenly stone when the 10-toed kingdoms began.

- I believe the man of sin (the office of Papacy) is the little horn of the beast of Daniel 7 and has existed since 538AD, who wasn't loosed until Rome (which used the symbol of the red Dragon on its banner, by the way) - the legs of iron - was defeated. He, the man of sin, the beast of the sea then ruled, unchecked, for 1,260 years persecuting saints (Jews and believing gentiles alike) until he was wounded in 1798. Still within the time of 10-toed nations. Still no heavenly stone here.

- His wound was healed in 1929, but by then the beast of the earth had risen in 1776 and had now assumed world-ruling leadership power, establishing the world monetary system that everyone uses for commerce, without which no one can buy or sell. He also developed "firepower" from the air. Still within the 10-toed kingdoms. Still no heavenly stone for hundreds of years.

...But our generation is the generation which is now witnessing the heavenly stone falling to smash those kingdoms, as the nations of the world enter into THEIR tribulation. The stone was meant to smash and then grow into a great mountain. This is where I believe we are. Right at the cusp. "The kingdoms of this world ARE BECOMING the kingdoms of our Lord and His Christ."

Respectfully,,,
The position you hold to is seemingly similar to Robert Fleming the younger or Issac Newton in that they saw these things as unfolding across time from then till now and to the end. Although my position is similar the man of sin is the issue in my difference of opinion .

Now this is why and where I deviate from this https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17:8&version=KJV which is that the beast that was to rise from the pit in Rev. 17:8 is "in the pit" at the time that the Revelation was seen and explained by the angel to John.

Now if this is the head that received the wound then if the Revelation was given in the first century(approx-ad66-96) then he had existed prior to that time and had already received it's wound prior to the writing of Revelation.

You are saying it is Catholicism which did not exist as an head of the beast prior to the writing of Revelation. The head of the beast that received the deadly wound that is denoted in Scripture existed prior to Revelation 17:8 and was in the bottomless pit at that time and ascends up out of the bottomless pit future tense to it being seen by John at Patmos.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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And it was the opposite for me...no one told me, but HIM...and it was in my early walk, and I felt HIS PRESENCE and heard HIS VOICE more clearly then, than I do now...and because I know what I learned and who I learned it from, I will NEVER change my stance.
It was the same for me as well, I didn't have anyone to teach me or anything so I just went to God himself the first week of my salvation I read the word of God with hunger as if it was actually food for my soul and in the same way I heard and experienced him more back then than I do now which after nine months I didn't hear or experience him the same way which I remember asking why and heard his voice in that way one last time saying the training is over.
I think when we are first saved he is more intense to train us to hear and experience him well and then after we have to learn to hear and expereince him with our hearts.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
8,048
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lol, my time is up and I cannot change Issac to Isaac please pardon my spelling...
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
You know I don't think I have ever heard that he would imitate the holy trinity at least I don't remember hearing of it but it was shown to me in a dream.... I knew it as the unholy trinity in the dream. I am guessing the antichrist is the son satan the father but who is the spirit, the false prophet maybe?
No read Revelation 13....he will be the spirit of the false prophet, and the beast...
But note that men will be found worshipping BOTH the beast and the dragon who gave his power to the beast....

Itś three part...but he can´t manifest himself fully in one...so it will be in piecemeal...false prophet, and beast/anti christ...who will be able to perform miracles in the power of satan....
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
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lol, my time is up and I cannot change Issac to Isaac please pardon my spelling...
Please, have you seen my spelling? I never learned how to type correctly so I always misspell
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
This is the unholy trinity...though it is not a trinity in the sense of some sort of unity between the three...Satan is simply manifesting his spirit in the false prophet and the antichrist...
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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No read Revelation 13....he will be the spirit of the false prophet, and the beast...
But note that men will be found worshipping BOTH the beast and the dragon who gave his power to the beast....

Itś three part...but he can´t manifest himself fully in one...so it will be in piecemeal...false prophet, and beast/anti christ...who will be able to perform miracles in the power of satan....
Well I actually agree with most of your post but I think the beast and the Antichrist are actually not the same thing. I think it is possible they actually resemble kingdoms not actual people or entities.
The dragon is satan to my knowledge but the best has seven heads ten horns and a crown upon each horn.
If say the sea resembles the world and the beast resembles kingdoms that would explain the seven heads horns and crowns they each resemble a prominent kingdom of the world. It then goes on to describe each head in great detail giving hints of what kingdom it might be.
 

miknik5

Senior Member
Jun 2, 2016
7,833
591
113
Well I actually agree with most of your post but I think the beast and the Antichrist are actually not the same thing. I think it is possible they actually resemble kingdoms not actual people or entities.
The dragon is satan to my knowledge but the best has seven heads ten horns and a crown upon each horn.
If say the sea resembles the world and the beast resembles kingdoms that would explain the seven heads horns and crowns they each resemble a prominent kingdom of the world. It then goes on to describe each head in great detail giving hints of what kingdom it might be.
So when the false prophet and the beast are cast into the lake of fire? What does this mean?

Revelation 20
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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So when the false prophet and the beast are cast into the lake of fire? What does this mean?

Revelation 20
Well like I said it is a possibility so take what I said with a grain of salt but it is believed by some that the beast resembling the kingdoms is what the new world order is to beecome. This new world order is supposed to be a good thing at first but it is corrupt an agenda made by the enemy himself. Supposdly this new world order will also make a new world religion which is why the name blasphemy is written on the beast, the antichrist is believed to be the head of this order and power will be given to him by the order aka the beast.

As we speak this new world order and religion is being planned to be implamented by a certain group which you may have heard of called the Illuminati, I only know because my sister is a part of it and tried to recruit me and she told me how they are planning this and that it isn't for world domination but to bring peace and safety.
Although I admit I was confused when she said if she is suddenly taken to the sky not to look for her or worry about her, when I asked her what she meant by that she refused to answer.

Denying the holy spirit and God himself making a new religion and attempting to govern the world is why I assume they were thrown into the lake of fire. but as I said it is a possiblity as for what I actually believe I do think this is a likely scenario but as with much of revelations it likely will not be fully understood or revealed until the appointed time
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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No it ain't - this is where your problems lie, incorrectly identifying the whore just as David Hunt did in his book.

The whore is apostate Israel/Jerusalem of the 1st century:
This teaching that Jerusalem is the woman, prostitute, Mystery, Babylon the great, is and has been a false teaching for some time.[/quote]

For the record, David Hunt was right on with his book "The Woman who Rids the Beast: Roman Catholicism in the last days)"

Firstly, Jerusalem was not built on seven hills.

And Secondly, Jerusalem was not that city that ruled over the kings of the earth when John was receiving this information from the angel.

We have to stick to the scriptural clues that God provides in His word. You can't just force a square peg into round hole!

In further support of Israel not being the Mystery, Babylon the great, consider what Rev.18:21-23 has to say regarding her:


=============================================================

The sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again.

Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again, nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again.

The light of a lamp will never shine in you again, and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.

============================================================

So, according to the scripture above, once God has the beast and the ten kings destroy Mystery, Babylon, no one will ever inhabit Babylon the great again. Now regarding this, consider the following which takes place at the end of the millennial kingdom:

===========================================================

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

============================================================

The camp of God's people, the city that He loves, could only be referring to Jerusalem, which demonstrates that it will be inhabited right to the very end of the thousand years. Therefore, if Mystery, Babylon the great is destroyed so that no one will be able to inhabit that city, how can it be Jerusalem when people will be living in it?

You guys always come in here half cocked with partial scriptural information proclaiming these false teachings. You can continue to offer up false apologetics or you can actually try listening to what we are saying and consider the truth instead of holding on to the false teachings that you have adopted?

The bottom line is, you can't have Jerusalem being Babylon the great if she gets destroyed during the last 3 1/2 years and then have scripture showing Jerusalem as being inhabited at the end of the thousand years. If anything, this would show without a shadow of a doubt that Jerusalem cannot possibly be Babylon the great.

In addition, we have Rev.12 showing that the woman which is identified as the nation Israel, fleeing out into the wilderness and being cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years.

"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach."

The above scriptures show that Israel will be cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years. Therefore, there is a contradiction to your claim of Israel/Jerusalem being Babylon the great. Read carefully about Babylon's destruction in Rev.18, because no one will ever be able to inhabit her again. My guess is that, the beast and the ten kings nuke her, which is why no one will ever be able to inhabit that city again. There many prophesies and promises regarding Israel and Jerusalem that are yet to be fulfilled and therefore cancel out Jerusalem/Israel as being Mystery, Babylon the great. I've already given you the answer as to who Babylon is, which is the truth of the matter.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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This teaching that Jerusalem is the woman, prostitute, Mystery, Babylon the great, is and has been a false teaching for some time.
For the record, David Hunt was right on with his book "The Woman who Rids the Beast: Roman Catholicism in the last days)"

Firstly, Jerusalem was not built on seven hills.

And Secondly, Jerusalem was not that city that ruled over the kings of the earth when John was receiving this information from the angel.

We have to stick to the scriptural clues that God provides in His word. You can't just force a square peg into round hole!

In further support of Israel not being the Mystery, Babylon the great, consider what Rev.18:21-23 has to say regarding her:

=============================================================

The sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again.

Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again, nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again.

The light of a lamp will never shine in you again, and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.

============================================================

So, according to the scripture above, once God has the beast and the ten kings destroy Mystery, Babylon, no one will ever inhabit Babylon the great again. Now regarding this, consider the following which takes place at the end of the millennial kingdom:

===========================================================

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

============================================================

The camp of God's people, the city that He loves, could only be referring to Jerusalem, which demonstrates that it will be inhabited right to the very end of the thousand years. Therefore, if Mystery, Babylon the great is destroyed so that no one will be able to inhabit that city, how can it be Jerusalem when people will be living in it?

You guys always come in here half cocked with partial scriptural information proclaiming these false teachings. You can continue to offer up false apologetics or you can actually try listening to what we are saying and consider the truth instead of holding on to the false teachings that you have adopted?

The bottom line is, you can't have Jerusalem being Babylon the great if she gets destroyed during the last 3 1/2 years and then have scripture showing Jerusalem as being inhabited at the end of the thousand years. If anything, this would show without a shadow of a doubt that Jerusalem cannot possibly be Babylon the great.

In addition, we have Rev.12 showing that the woman which is identified as the nation Israel, fleeing out into the wilderness and being cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years.

"She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days."

"The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach."

The above scriptures show that Israel will be cared for by God during that last 3 1/2 years. Therefore, there is a contradiction to your claim of Israel/Jerusalem being Babylon the great. Read carefully about Babylon's destruction in Rev.18, because no one will ever be able to inhabit her again. My guess is that, the beast and the ten kings nuke her, which is why no one will ever be able to inhabit that city again. There many prophesies and promises regarding Israel and Jerusalem that are yet to be fulfilled and therefore cancel out Jerusalem/Israel as being Mystery, Babylon the great. I've already given you the answer as to who Babylon is, which is the truth of the matter.[/QUOTE]
Wow I didn't even see the post about it being Jerusalem great job making your point. Where did you say who Babylon the great is? I always thought it was the united states but maybe I am wrong?
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
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For the record, David Hunt was right on with his book "The Woman who Rids the Beast: Roman Catholicism in the last days)"

Wow I didn't even see the post about it being Jerusalem great job making your point. Where did you say who Babylon the great is? I always thought it was the united states but maybe I am wrong?
Good day, Blain!

For a little more information on this subject, see post #97.

Regarding the United States being Babylon the Great, the scripture says, "The woman you saw is that great [city] that rules over the kings of the earth and therefore cancels out the United States which is a nation and not a city. At the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. It was Emperor Domitian who ruled from 81 to 96 AD. It was during the time of his reign that John was exiled to the isle of Patmos, which by the way would put the writing of Revelation between those years.

Domitian
IMPERATOR TITVS FLAVIVS CAESAR DOMITIANVS AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS 24 October 51 AD, Rome, Italia Brother of Titus; son of Vespasian

Reign: 14 September 81 AD – 18 September 96 AD
Time in Office: 15 years and 4 days
Time of Death: 18 September 96 AD (aged 44) - Assassinated by court officials
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
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Good day, Blain!

For a little more information on this subject, see post #97.

Regarding the United States being Babylon the Great, the scripture says, "The woman you saw is that great [city] that rules over the kings of the earth and therefore cancels out the United States which is a nation and not a city. At the time that John was receiving that information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. It was Emperor Domitian who ruled from 81 to 96 AD. It was during the time of his reign that John was exiled to the isle of Patmos, which by the way would put the writing of Revelation between those years.

Domitian
IMPERATOR TITVS FLAVIVS CAESAR DOMITIANVS AVGVSTVS GERMANICVS 24 October 51 AD, Rome, Italia Brother of Titus; son of Vespasian

Reign: 14 September 81 AD – 18 September 96 AD
Time in Office: 15 years and 4 days
Time of Death: 18 September 96 AD (aged 44) - Assassinated by court officials
Oh I see that makes sense I didn't think to consider that. I wonder what you do think about my post of the beast coming out of the sea? I am sure it is lacking compared to you but I wonder if you any validation in it?
Of course I wouldn't ask if I didn't trust your judgment in bible prophecy
 
Apr 3, 2019
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Mixing up the woman with the beast is your error;

(Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.)

The woman that "sat upon" the beast is apostate Israel/Jews of the 1st century - the beast is Rome of the same time period who trod under foot thr holy city for 42 months which was the length of the war of 66-70 AD

(Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.)

Rome turned on the whore, Jerusalem and it's inhabitants were made desolate and burned with fire.

(Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.)

(Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.)

Rome was never considered the holy city in scripture.

To place the events in revelation is in total contradiction of John:

(Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John)
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
Mixing up the woman with the beast is your error;

(Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.)

The woman that "sat upon" the beast is apostate Israel/Jews of the 1st century - the beast is Rome of the same time period who trod under foot thr holy city for 42 months which was the length of the war of 66-70 AD

(Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.)

Rome turned on the whore, Jerusalem and it's inhabitants were made desolate and burned with fire.

(Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.)

(Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.)

Rome was never considered the holy city in scripture.

To place the events in revelation is in total contradiction of John:

(Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John)
You are allowed to your view but I would caution you of speaking ill of Israel the jews and jerusalem God is very clear how protective and jealous he is of them. Besides I believe it speaks of the great city in revelations not holy city, Rome was the great city back then but not the holy one
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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Oh I see that makes sense I didn't think to consider that. I wonder what you do think about my post of the beast coming out of the sea? I am sure it is lacking compared to you but I wonder if you any validation in it?
Of course I wouldn't ask if I didn't trust your judgment in bible prophecy
I believe that the "beast coming up out of the sea" is figurative, i.e. not referring to the literal ocean. According to scripture, the Abyss gk (abussos) is a place under the earth. For example:

"The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss. When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.

========================================================================================
"They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek is Apollyon (that is, Destroyer)."

"The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction.

"“What is your name?” Jesus asked.

“Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him. And the demons kept begging Jesus not to order them to go into the Abyss"

"And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.
=======================================================================================

Strong's Concordance
abussos: boundless, bottomless
Original Word: ἄβυσσος, ου, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: abussos
Phonetic Spelling: (ab'-us-sos)
Definition: boundless, bottomless
Usage: the abyss, unfathomable depth, an especially Jewish conception, the home of the dead and of evil spirits.

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from alpha (as a neg. prefix) and bussos = buthos
Definition
boundless, bottomless
NASB Translation
abyss (7), bottomless (2).

The sea can be and is referred to as being Abyssal in literature because of its depths. However, in scripture it appears to be a place under the depths of the earth, which is usually referred to as a place where demons are imprisoned.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,375
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You are allowed to your view but I would caution you of speaking ill of Israel the jews and jerusalem God is very clear how protective and jealous he is of them. Besides I believe it speaks of the great city in revelations not holy city, Rome was the great city back then but not the holy one
You are quite right regarding Israel. The decree that God made saying: those who bless you (Israel) I will bless and those who curse you I will curse." I believe that is still in operation.