The Market Driven Church

[pottersclay]

Galahad, you are absolutely right but imo if sound doctrine is preached and the word is taught line upon line, here a little there a little God will add the increase.
Now if your talking about the falling away it is because they will not hear sound doctrine, not that it's not being taught but they reject it.
To tell you the truth I would put on a clown suite and juggle if it would attract people to the church,but once inside and the door is shut , now holy spirit have your way. I would preach the gospel and raise Christ that all men be drawn to him.
He who has a ear let him hear what the spirit has to say.
The curiosity, the come and see approach, what's this all about, why is this road in a traffic jam on Sunday mornings? Then again on some weekdays, what the heck is going on in there.....come and see.
The Lord God had taken those prickly, itchy fig leaves off us and replaced them with lambskin seat covers.
Jesus will meet us right where we're at, a grassy knoll at the top of a mount, at a well in search for water, in a boat on a stormy sea, at your house during dinner, on a journey along a road, in a temple at night, in a garden at the break of day, at your job as you collect taxes, at the shore while your fishing, at your home while your grieving.
At the foot of the cross where you are forgiven.........amen and amen

 

[Willie-T]

The attitude is what's important here. The heart of God is that he isn't willing that any should perish. When the rich young ruler walked away Jesus didn't just say to blank with you if you don't accept what I have to say. Tell people truth in love. Don't forget the love part.

Yes, THIS is what so many completely forget. They "talk" of the importance of love, but it doesn't seem to come out of their mouths when they leap to make sure the visitor in their church knows "they are going to burn forever" because they are such scum. (Only going by the way they, themselves, describe their "evangelism."

 

[3Scoreand10]

I would be ashamed to even attempt to try to justify myself with a comment like that.

I guess I have not made my point clearly.
The one being His, teaches us that Jesus will never desert one who is saved but will always try to bring them back into the fold when they stray.
But when it comes to the lost, we are to teach the truth and NEVER comprimise the truth.
Those who will not here or accept the truth will answer for it.
When Jesus sent out the 70 in Luke, He clearly taught to stay and teach those who receive you but to also walk away from and shake the dust off your feet from those who reject you.
It is not a question of not loving the lost, Jesus did and I am sure all on CC do. It is about using our time wisely.
We should never neglect those who receive the Word, those who are saved, to run after and beg and plead and compromise with those who are lost and will NOT here the truth.
Do we forget them, or not love them, or not pray for them, nor try again if given the chance to teach them that they might be saved, NO, NEVER.
I am afraid that many have been given a false assurance of salvation because of people compromising the Word of God.
I will never compromise. If you receive the truth, I will rejoice with you. If you reject the truth, I will weep, be very sad, will pray that God will give me the chance to witness to you again, but will move on.
Some will never be saved no matter how hard we try to win them.

 

[shotgunner]

I personally haven't even seen this Market Church that some of you are talking about. I've listened to the messages of the biggest churches around. It was always word based. Never once did I see a message that was only designed to be what people wanted to hear. The Gospel is the good news. I think some of you have gotten away from that and would rather it be the hard to hear news.

As far as doing things to attract people, Paul said he became all things to all men, that he might win some. I'm glad we have mega churches with nice seats and good lighting. From what I've seen of the old temple of God, I believe that if God built a temple today it would outshine even the largest mega church and make it look like a hovel by comparison.

Some want to criticize Joel Osteen because he doesn't make his listeners feel the flams of hell with his words. He preaches a good news gospel. I've heard him just a few times and everything he said was bible. It might not be the way many of you would present it, but that just might be why God has raised him up. There are many fire and brimstone preachers. As long as Joel isn't teaching some weird false doctrine I won't criticize his methods. He is leading people to God. Don't we remember that the scripture says that it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance? Not every teacher has to be the same and I thank God they aren't. I believe God gives different revelation to different men. I won't criticize a man for preaching the revelation given to him.

 

[Willie-T]

I personally haven't even seen this Market Church that some of you are talking about. I've listened to the messages of the biggest churches around. It was always word based. Never once did I see a message that was only designed to be what people wanted to hear. The Gospel is the good news. I think some of you have gotten away from that and would rather it be the hard to hear news.

As far as doing things to attract people, Paul said he became all things to all men, that he might win some. I'm glad we have mega churches with nice seats and good lighting. From what I've seen of the old temple of God, I believe that if God built a temple today it would outshine even the largest mega church and make it look like a hovel by comparison.

Some want to criticize Joel Osteen because he doesn't make his listeners feel the flams of hell with his words. He preaches a good news gospel. I've heard him just a few times and everything he said was bible. It might not be the way many of you would present it, but that just might be why God has raised him up. There are many fire and brimstone preachers. As long as Joel isn't teaching some weird false doctrine I won't criticize his methods. He is leading people to God. Don't we remember that the scripture says that it is the goodness of God that leads men to repentance? Not every teacher has to be the same and I thank God they aren't. I believe God gives different revelation to different men. I won't criticize a man for preaching the revelation given to him.

Excellent words of truth.

 

[tanach]

Guess that explains the starbucks and lounge furniture.

When Communion consists of a Hamburger and a Coke you can really start worrying!

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus did lower the boom on him by telling him to sell all he had...

Mark 10:21-22 KJV
[21] Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. [22] And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

imagine that being said in a seeker sensitive church today.

No doubt...all you would hear would be crickets and the preacher's mouth hitting the floor!

 

[pottersclay]

I'm so poor I gave all my possessions to the Lord.....he gave them back..

 

[Stephen63]

Hey Galahad. How's Camelot?

As for Joel Osteen, many people don't know that he was never expected to be in the ministry. His dad was a megachurch pastor for many years and Joel ran the TV ministry after studying broadcasting at Oral Roberts University. When his dad died suddenly there was nobody lined up to take over, so they turned to Joel and the rest is history. He has done an incredible job taking that church from about 6,000 to over 40,000 members. The drawback though, is that Joel had no seminary training and is weak in the theology department. Hopefully he will develop in that area over time.

Do you know why he holds out his Bible vertically before every sermon? It's so the dust will fall off of it from where he left it on the podium from the last service.

 

[pottersclay]

Willie t get in here someone beating up on j.o.again.

 

[Willie-T]

Willie t get in here someone beating up on j.o.again.

Gotta let that one slide. For all I know, it might be true. I don't open mine much since I began using a computer.

 

[Willie-T]

No doubt...all you would hear would be crickets and the preacher's mouth hitting the floor!

Was it ever said to you? It has never been said to me, and I have never heard it said to anyone, So, why would you even consider telling that to someone seeking God?

 

[dcontroversal]

Was it ever said to you? It has never been said to me, and I have never heard it said to anyone, So, why would you even consider telling that to someone seeking God?

Oh, I don't know...maybe because Jesus said it....if your talking about Jesus telling him to sell all he had and give to the poor!

 

[Willie-T]

Oh, I don't know...maybe because Jesus said it....

Jesus also said to cut off your hand and gouge out your eye. I suppose that is something else you espouse trying to scare people looking for God with?

 

[dcontroversal]

Jesus also said to cut off your hand and gouge out your eye. I suppose that is something else you espouse trying to scare people looking for God with?

Willie as much as I like you that was the stupidest thing you have said in your argument against laying out the truth regardless of who it offends....it is one thing to sell what you have and give to the poor and the picture of doing what is necessary to keep from sinning....WOW this type of logic is what leads people astray!

 

[pottersclay]

​ooops got my eyepatch caught on my hook again .....way to go Willie.

 

[Willie-T]

Willie as much as I like you that was the stupidest thing you have said in your argument against laying out the truth regardless of who it offends....it is one thing to sell what you have and give to the poor and the picture of doing what is necessary to keep from sinning....WOW this type of logic is what leads people astray!

Oh stop being childish. I have never said to tiptoe, trying not to offend someone. I said to FIRST show them that they are loved by Jesus before you start trying to shock and scare them.... claiming you are "only speaking truth, in God's name."

 

[KennethC]

Oh stop being childish. I have never said to tiptoe, trying not to offend someone. I said to FIRST show them that they are loved by Jesus before you start trying to shock and scare them.... claiming you are "only speaking truth, in God's name."

Not to mention that when you do rebuke or reprove a person (offend then in the process) we are always told to follow it up with the truth in His word, exhortation, and esteeming.

If we just offend them and then not exhort and esteem them then we would make ourselves no better then the Pharisees who put heavy burdens on others but would not lift a finger to help them.

 

[dcontroversal]

Oh stop being childish. I have never said to tiptoe, trying not to offend someone. I said to FIRST show them that they are loved by Jesus before you start trying to shock and scare them.... claiming you are "only speaking truth, in God's name."

Yeah you bet.....O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring therefore fruit meet for repentance........Pretty sure John was inspired and laid it out hardline!

 

[JesusLives]

How many visitors get to get to the truth.....lots of Christians are so busy judging the way they are dressed or don't speak Christianese good enough that they don't have a chance to be beaten with the truth according to the masses of Christians...they don't get that chance...because we are too busy chasing those sinners away.... Shame on us and shame on us for not lovingly showing them the truth by our example rather than Bible beating them to death...

Just some Blond thoughts carry on with the truth hurts message.....