The Millennium literal or symbolic?

[Ahwatukee]

Jesus was the 1st resurrection, 1 Cor 15:23-28.

When He resurrected, He brought with Him a host of captives, Eph 4:8, from paradise.

These would be the 144,000,

the multitude that no man can count (MNMCC),

the 24 elders,

those seen over the sea of glass in Rev 15,

those who rule with Jesus for a symbolic 1000 yrs.

The 144,000 are those who come out of Israel during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, which hasn't begun yet.

The multitude which no man can count, are Gentile believers (from every tribe, people, language and nation) and those who come out of the great tribulation, which has not yet begun. So, how can they be they be apart of the captives that Jesus took with him?

Your reference to "a symbolic 1000 yrs." is implied by you. However, the scripture states that it will be a literal thousand years, with a liter binding of Satan in the Abyss during that same thousand years. Your brand of hermeneutics is overriding the word of God.

 

[abcdef]

it is part of their spiritualising the word.

They can not take literal interpretation of the word when it comes to these things, if they would, it would prove them wrong. And their doctrines would fall apart.

1 Cor 2:14, "....the things of the Spirit of God:..", "...are spiritually discerned."

 

[maxwel]

The 144,000 are those who come out of Israel during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, which hasn't begun yet.

The multitude which no man can count, are Gentile believers (from every tribe, people, language and nation) and those who come out of the great tribulation, which has not yet begun. So, how can they be they be apart of the captives that Jesus took with him?

Your reference to "a symbolic 1000 yrs." is implied by you. However, the scripture states that it will be a literal thousand years, with a liter binding of Satan in the Abyss during that same thousand years. Your hermeneutics are overriding the word of God.

I thought the 144,000 were the Jehovah's Witnesses.

They're going to be very disappointed about this.

 

[Bladerunner]

I thought the 144,000 were the Jehovah's Witnesses.

They're going to be very disappointed about this.

Ah Mr. Maxwell.....hehe.....
They JWs have a big problem... They at the last convention had over 250,000 people there. This is a good way to get ride of the door knockers...Ask them if they are going to draw straws???????/

 

[abcdef]

.
Brother Ahwatukee,

The 144,000 are those who come out of Israel during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period, which hasn't begun yet.

It doesn't say that.

It says that John saw 144000, and that they were sealed, but it does not say that they "come out of Israel during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period". That is an assumption, or did I miss something?

The multitude which no man can count, are Gentile believers (from every tribe, people, language and nation) and those who come out of the great tribulation, which has not yet begun. So, how can they be they be apart of the captives that Jesus took with him?

The trib began when Rome invaded Israel and Jerusalem.

John the Baptist was in the trib, and John the apostle, said that he was a "companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom,".

The Great trib was after Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad and lasted until 1967, when Jerusalem was restored to Israel, ending the statue of Dan. 2 and the times of the gentiles Lk 21:20-24, 24.

Your reference to "a symbolic 1000 yrs." is implied by you. However, the scripture states that it will be a literal thousand years, with a liter binding of Satan in the Abyss during that same thousand years. Your brand of hermeneutics is overriding the word of God.

The scripture does not say, "it will be a literal 1000 yrs", that is an assumption.

Satan is the called the dragon in Rev 20:2.

The dragon has 7 heads and 10 horns Rev 12:3, The dragon is Rome (7 Hills/mounts).

The dragon (Rome) is not allowed to deceive the nations into surrounding Jerusalem until he comes out of the abyss (place of the dead, Rome returns from the dead, is restored as a nation, 1929).

The gentile nations, Iran, Gog/Magog, have Jerusalem Israel surrounded right now.

Jerusalem will fall, soon.

Then the stone strikes, the fire from heaven.

We are at the end of the mill., not waiting for it to begin.

 

[Ahwatukee]

It doesn't say that.

It says that John saw 144000, and that they were sealed, but it does not say that they "come out of Israel during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period". That is an assumption, or did I miss something?

Scripture does say that they come out of Israel:

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel"

So you're wrong there. And these 144,000 are sealed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period and that because it is taking place after Revelation chapter four, which are the events that must take place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period. So you are wrong on both counts.

The trib began when Rome invaded Israel and Jerusalem.

John the Baptist was in the trib, and John the apostle, said that he was a "companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom,".

Jesus said that all believers would suffer trials and tribulation, which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness. This is the tribulation that John was talking about, the common tribulation of all believers. In opposition, the tribulation of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which is coming is not the same, but will be God's unprecedented wrath being poured out upon a Christ rejecting world. by not discerning the difference you do err.

The Great trib was after Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 ad and lasted until 1967, when Jerusalem was restored to Israel, ending the statue of Dan.

The great tribulation is going to be the worst time in history unequaled from the beginning of the world, until now and never to be equaled again, which will be made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the beasts reign during the last 3 1/2 years.

If you think that the great tribulation has already taken place, you, like many others, have no idea of the chaos, destruction and fatalities of God's wrath that is still to come.

The scripture does not say, "it will be a literal 1000 yrs", that is an assumption

How can it be an assumption when the scripture says "a thousand years" six individual times. It is only an assumption because you make it an assumption. But if you read the scripture at face value, the it means what it says, "a thousand years."

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended."

As you can see, the scripture flat out says "a thousand years." It is you and others that allegorize or symbolize it. We are not assuming anything, but are simply reading and believing exactly what is in print. You are the ones changing the meaning.

The dragon (Rome) is not allowed to deceive the nations into surrounding Jerusalem until he comes out of the abyss (place of the dead, Rome returns from the dead, is restored as a nation, 1929

You haven't a clue of what you are talking about! Satan is not currently in the Abyss. He is the prince of the power of the air. He currently has access to God's presence in heaven and is accusing believers day and night before God. He will not be thrown into the Abyss until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, which hasn't taken place yet. You do err greatly!

We are at the end of the mill., not waiting for it to begin.

The millennial period doesn't begin until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. And prior to that we would have seen the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which we have not. We would also have seen the beast, his image and his mark, which we have not. Regarding the millennium, have you seen any lions eating straw like the Ox? Or have you seen prey and predator animals and their young lying down together. Do we live in a time when a young child can play near a cobra's den or stick his hand in a viper's nest and not be hurt at all? The answer to these is a resounding NO! These are just some of the characteristics of the millennial period, not to mention that Jesus would have already returned and would be ruling from Jerusalem and the fact that the nations would have beaten their weapons into plowshares and pruning hooks.

You should not be teaching any of these things, because you are only aiding in the spreading of false teachings.

 

[abcdef]

Scripture does say that they come out of Israel:

"Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel"

So you're wrong there.

They are from Israel, yes, but they were resurrected with Jesus and are seen with Him in the vision of John in 96 AD.

And these 144,000 are sealed during the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period and that because it is taking place after Revelation chapter four, which are the events that must take place after the "what is now" i.e. after the church period. So you are wrong on both counts.

It is an assumption that the 7 churches are the 7 periods of the church in timeline, you know that.

Jesus said that all believers would suffer trials and tribulation, which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness. This is the tribulation that John was talking about, the common tribulation of all believers.

I disagree, that John is referring to it that way. The trib is the time of the iron legs/toes Dan. 2, 4th beast, Rome, which John is a partaker of.

In opposition, the tribulation of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which is coming is not the same, but will be God's unprecedented wrath being poured out upon a Christ rejecting world. by not discerning the difference you do err.

The seals and trumpets (the story of the little scroll) are against Israel and the world of Israel for rejecting Jesus and the kingdom.

The seals are from the rejection of the kingdom by Israel until the dest of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The trumpets are from the Revelation (96 AD. approx) until the rapture/resurrection, and the end of this planet. (7th/last trumpet).

The vials are against the Roman beast, primarily.

The great tribulation is going to be the worst time in history unequaled from the beginning of the world, until now and never to be equaled again, which will be made up of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as the beasts reign during the last 3 1/2 years.

Rome, the iron beast dragon, has persecuted Israel and the true kingdom for the last 2000 years, that is the beast dragon and the great trib.. It is all about Israel and the world/earth of Israel.

Don't look at a planet wide one world government, look at the iron legs/toes government that rules over Israel.

If you think that the great tribulation has already taken place, you, like many others, have no idea of the chaos, destruction and fatalities of God's wrath that is still to come.

Hmmm, Just look at what Israel has gone through for the last 2000 yrs.

Ask a Jew about WW 2.

You don't think that it was hell on earth?

How can it be an assumption when the scripture says "a thousand years" six individual times. It is only an assumption because you make it an assumption. But if you read the scripture at face value, the it means what it says, "a thousand years.

"


The 1000 years denotes the time of the rule of the kingdom on earth.

The kingdom has been here since Pentecost.

Jesus sits on the throne in heaven, ruling the kingdom.

A thousand years is only a day.......a time period set by God......not necessarily literal to men.

That is, the millennium, is the time of the kingdom on earth, which started on Pentecost and to this day.

"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended."

As you can see, the scripture flat out says "a thousand years." It is you and others that allegorize or symbolize it. We are not assuming anything, but are simply reading and believing exactly what is in print. You are the ones changing the meaning.

The beast/dragon is Rome (7 hills), Rome has come back from the dead to become a nation again.

Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

Soon the false prophet (BoR), will deceive the nation across the Euphrates and Magog/Gog, to surround Jerusalem and kill Israel.

Then the fire/stone.

You haven't a clue of what you are talking about! Satan is not currently in the Abyss. He is the prince of the power of the air.

He is now released he has been restored to Roman nationhood, Vatican.

He currently has access to God's presence in heaven and is accusing believers day and night before God. He will not be thrown into the Abyss until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age, which hasn't taken place yet. You do err greatly!

The age Jesus talked about in Matt 24 was the end of the temple age in 70 AD.

Satan was cast out of heaven on the Day of Pentecost. Rev 12:10, "..., Now is come salvation,"..."and the kingdom of our God,...".

The millennial period doesn't begin until Jesus returns to the earth to end the age.

It began on the Day of Pentecost

And prior to that we would have seen the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which we have not.

The judgments happened to Israel for the last 1900 years, it's not the gentile nations of the planet.

We would also have seen the beast, his image and his mark, which we have not.

The mark is the mark of the 4th beast Dan. 7, and the 7 headed beast of Caesar and Rome.

Already happened to Israel.

Regarding the millennium, have you seen any lions eating straw like the Ox? Or have you seen prey and predator animals and their young lying down together. Do we live in a time when a young child can play near a cobra's den or stick his hand in a viper's nest and not be hurt at all? The answer to these is a resounding NO!

This shows the kingdom and indwelling of the Holy Spirit (gift, Acts 2:38)

The beasts have the same body that they did have, but now they have the Holy Spirit of the Lamb.

When we become Christians, we receive the Holy Spirit, now the beasts are lambs in the kingdom.

These are just some of the characteristics of the millennial period, not to mention that Jesus would have already returned and would be ruling from Jerusalem and the fact that the nations would have beaten their weapons into plowshares and pruning hooks.

Have you given up warfare in your life?

Do you, as a Christian, practice war?

Or, have you given your soul to the harvest and Jesus?

Faith or weapons? Gospel or Swords?

Perhaps you, in the kingdom, have given up the ways of the sword, and now use a plow (seeds of the gospel).

Did you think that the unbelievers, outside of the kingdom would do this?

You should not be teaching any of these things, because you are only aiding in the spreading of false teachings.

My Brother,

Soon Iran will move to attack Jerusalem.

They will be aided by the other surrounding nations Magog.

The USA will not save/be able to save them from genocide.

We will continue to discuss these things, but as we do, keep your eyes on Jerusalem.

When Jerusalem falls, 3 1/2 days later, the 7th trumpet and the end of this planet.

These things will happen before our eyes.

There won't be a second times of the gentiles, there will be no escape, no fleeing to the wilderness of the gentiles.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Seeing as the opponents of Covenant Eschatology are bringing up the millennium in a thread discussing dispensationalism and progressive dispensationalism in an attempt to derail the thread this is their opportunity to have it out in whether John's millennial reign in the book of revelation is symbolic or literal.

Rev 20:6 (Young's Literal) Happy and holy is he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Since you have quoted Young'd Literal Translation you must be in perfect agreement with him that the Millennium is literal? After all "a thousand years" does mean a Millennium. So now what's your beef?

 

[Nehemiah6]

. The scripture does not say, "it will be a literal 1000 yrs", that is an assumption.

How can the 1,000 years be an "assumption" when it is stated in black and white SIX TIMES within seven verses? You have added "It will be" but that not how it is stated. It is either "a thousand years" (Greek chilia ete) or "the thousand years". There can be no misunderstanding when the same thing is repeated over and over again.

The OP says "symbolic". Symbolic of WHAT? 50 years, 5,000 years, 5,000,000 years? Do you see how nonsensical that can become?

 

[Ahwatukee]

They are from Israel, yes, but they were resurrected with Jesus and are seen with Him in the vision of John in 96 AD.


As I continue to make known, you have no idea what you are talking about. However, you are certainly free to believe in that end-time mess that you've created. I prefer to stick with scripture.

It is an assumption that the 7 churches are the 7 periods of the church in timeline, you know that.

I disagree, that John is referring to it that way. The trib is the time of the iron legs/toes Dan. 2, 4th beast, Rome, which John is a partaker of.





The seals and trumpets (the story of the little scroll) are against Israel and the world of Israel for rejecting Jesus and the kingdom.

The seals are from the rejection of the kingdom by Israel until the dest of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

The trumpets are from the Revelation (96 AD. approx) until the rapture/resurrection, and the end of this planet. (7th/last trumpet).

The vials are against the Roman beast, primarily.





Rome, the iron beast dragon, has persecuted Israel and the true kingdom for the last 2000 years, that is the beast dragon and the great trib.. It is all about Israel and the world/earth of Israel.

Don't look at a planet wide one world government, look at the iron legs/toes government that rules over Israel.





Hmmm, Just look at what Israel has gone through for the last 2000 yrs.

Ask a Jew about WW 2.

You don't think that it was hell on earth?



"


The 1000 years denotes the time of the rule of the kingdom on earth.

The kingdom has been here since Pentecost.

Jesus sits on the throne in heaven, ruling the kingdom.

A thousand years is only a day.......a time period set by God......not necessarily literal to men.

That is, the millennium, is the time of the kingdom on earth, which started on Pentecost and to this day.





The beast/dragon is Rome (7 hills), Rome has come back from the dead to become a nation again.

Israel is restored to Jerusalem.

Soon the false prophet (BoR), will deceive the nation across the Euphrates and Magog/Gog, to surround Jerusalem and kill Israel.

Then the fire/stone.





He is now released he has been restored to Roman nationhood, Vatican.





The age Jesus talked about in Matt 24 was the end of the temple age in 70 AD.

Satan was cast out of heaven on the Day of Pentecost. Rev 12:10, "..., Now is come salvation,"..."and the kingdom of our God,...".





It began on the Day of Pentecost





The judgments happened to Israel for the last 1900 years, it's not the gentile nations of the planet.





The mark is the mark of the 4th beast Dan. 7, and the 7 headed beast of Caesar and Rome.

Already happened to Israel.





This shows the kingdom and indwelling of the Holy Spirit (gift, Acts 2:38)

The beasts have the same body that they did have, but now they have the Holy Spirit of the Lamb.

When we become Christians, we receive the Holy Spirit, now the beasts are lambs in the kingdom.





Have you given up warfare in your life?

Do you, as a Christian, practice war?

Or, have you given your soul to the harvest and Jesus?

Faith or weapons? Gospel or Swords?

Perhaps you, in the kingdom, have given up the ways of the sword, and now use a plow (seeds of the gospel).

Did you think that the unbelievers, outside of the kingdom would do this?






My Brother,

Soon Iran will move to attack Jerusalem.

They will be aided by the other surrounding nations Magog.

The USA will not save/be able to save them from genocide.

We will continue to discuss these things, but as we do, keep your eyes on Jerusalem.

When Jerusalem falls, 3 1/2 days later, the 7th trumpet and the end of this planet.

These things will happen before our eyes.

There won't be a second times of the gentiles, there will be no escape, no fleeing to the wilderness of the gentiles.

As I continue to make known to you, you have no idea of the nature nor of the chronology regarding end-time events. However, you are certainly free to believe that mess that you've created. And you will also be held accountable for teaching those deceptions.

When Jerusalem falls, 3 1/2 days later, the 7th trumpet and the end of this planet.

Wow! After the 7th trumpet the end of this planet takes place. I guess God won't be able to keep His word by fulfilling the seven bowl judgments which follow the 7th trumpet nor the real thousand year period that Jesus is to reign in on this present earth.

When you enter into that time of wrath, think back on all of these posts that I have given to you in refutation regarding all of the false teachings that you have believed in and taught, while you are observing all of God's real events of wrath via the coming literal events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Also remember what God has said regarding adding to and taking away from the prophecy of this book.

 

[Hizikyah]

Revelation Timeline:

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I would think Christian the new name God named His people is the remnant.

He had a purposed a meaning and is why used that name Christian to help to add meaning of the bride coming down on the last day. It means much more than the added meaning that some subscribe to it ,as followers of Christ. It what they do follow Christ not what the word means.

Changing the meaning of a word can add or subtract form the intended purpose.

The remnant locutus is speaking of is the remnant of Israel who is not "blinded in part" IE..The saved jews.. In romans 11, Israel is said to be blinded in part./ God always promised their would be a remnant left. In all ages, The OT nbot only speaks that God will never break away his seed, he will always havce a remnant, He promised the remnant would also return, Which is what we see in revelation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think if it is signified as to the spiritual meaning. It is figurative as a shadow. It represents the real substance .(redemption)

Figures are parables that hide the meaning not seen from natural unconverted man.

Parables are figurative symbols used to explain spiritual truths

Prophesy is GFod telling us,. TYhis is going to ha[ppen, at this time, and this is how and this is who. It is used to prove to the world he is the one true God, because no one else can tell of a future even and get it 100% right. Only God can

You can not mix a parable with a prophesy, They are different languages used for different purposes thus have different context or root meanings or causes.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Revelation Timeline:

View attachment 175318

Hello Hizikyah,

At the top of the chart, it states that "Revelation is not chronological the way it is written. If it were there would have to be 3 separate ends." What explanation do they give for this interpretation? The seals go first with the trumpet judgments following after the seals, with the bowl judgments following the 7th trumpet. They indeed will take place in the chronological order they appear in scripture. People usually make this claim because they interpret events that are similar as being the same event, which they are not. I'm guessing that this is exactly why they are making this claim. The chart above is not correct.

Seals 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

__________________Trumpets 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

_______________________________________Bowls 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

_________________________________________________________Jesus returns/End of Age

 

[garee]

The remnant locutus is speaking of is the remnant of Israel who is not "blinded in part" IE..The saved jews.. In romans 11, Israel is said to be blinded in part./ God always promised their would be a remnant left. In all ages, The OT nbot only speaks that God will never break away his seed, he will always havce a remnant, He promised the remnant would also return, Which is what we see in revelation.

Thanks for the reply. I would offer..

The remnant of Christians the new named he named his born again children is not according to the flesh of any nation. But is in respect to the spiritual unseen seed (one) Christ and not seeds of the flesh seen of many.

God who is not a man as us is typified as the father of a multitude of nations Eternal God is referred to as the bosom of Abraham, used in parables to represent the invisible presence of God ...the father of all nations the multitude.

His Holy Spirit dwells in the believers new born again heart. God is not a respecter of person’s flesh of any nation.

The temporal separation between the Jew and the gentile ended as a result of the first century reformation .

That leaves one status called the Gentiles .

The outward Jew (natural man) that does not have the Spirit of Christ fills that position as a gentile . When the fullness of gentiles comes into the body of Christ , his wife.... it excludes the outward Jews who refuse to believe the veil is rent. The reformation ended temple life which was used as a in parables as shadow up until the time of reformation. Some Jews even today worship a part of the wall as a idol image in a hope he will appear in the flesh as a way of mending the veil which remains rent.

Because of the first century reformation the temporal use of an outward Jew used as a shadow of the good things to come (the Son of man seen) reverts back to the seeds (many) of its mother and father... both gentiles.

Ezekiel 16:45 Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.

Not all Israel as those who wrestle with God and man is Israel as born again inward Jews. Words have meaning applied to them.When God changed the first name he gave Jacob which means deceiver the new name he named him it reflected Emanuel (God with us)

Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

This is the same power spoken of in 2Corinthians 4:7 . Having nothing to do with the literal flesh of any nation as if God was a man as us.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Because of the reformation we no longer know any man after the flesh of any nation. This is even tohught r temporally some did know Him after the flesh and those that did and sought after it he used as examples as faithless ones . we are commanded that we do not know him any longer after the flesh . The one time promised demonstration has been over for over two thousand literal years .

As His eternal bride we are considered new creatures and therefore no longer Jew nor gentile , male not female . We are lovingly commanded not to walk by sight after the flesh of any nation or man. Christ said of his own Jewish flesh it prop fits for nothing, zero. Again the one time demonstration is over.

He will not come in the flesh as if he was a man as us ever again .

The veil remains rent without a promise of mending it for another outward demonstration of a spiritual work not seen .He poured out His Spirit the work of his faith (plan) on flesh as that seen.His work of faith (planing and executing ) is perfect nothing can be added to it or taken away from it. .

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a "new creature": old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2Co 5:16

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks for the reply. I would offer..

The remnant of Christians the new named he named his born again children is not according to the flesh of any nation. But is in respect to the spiritual unseen seed (one) Christ and not seeds of the flesh seen of many.

God who is not a man as us is typified as the father of a multitude of nations Eternal God is referred to as the bosom of Abraham, used in parables to represent the invisible presence of God ...the father of all nations the multitude.

His Holy Spirit dwells in the believers new born again heart. God is not a respecter of person’s flesh of any nation.

The temporal separation between the Jew and the gentile ended as a result of the first century reformation .

That leaves one status called the Gentiles .

The outward Jew (natural man) that does not have the Spirit of Christ fills that position as a gentile . When the fullness of gentiles comes into the body of Christ , his wife.... it excludes the outward Jews who refuse to believe the veil is rent. The reformation ended temple life which was used as a in parables as shadow up until the time of reformation. Some Jews even today worship a part of the wall as a idol image in a hope he will appear in the flesh as a way of mending the veil which remains rent.

Because of the first century reformation the temporal use of an outward Jew used as a shadow of the good things to come (the Son of man seen) reverts back to the seeds (many) of its mother and father... both gentiles.

Ezekiel 16:45 Thou art thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou art the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.

Not all Israel as those who wrestle with God and man is Israel as born again inward Jews. Words have meaning applied to them.When God changed the first name he gave Jacob which means deceiver the new name he named him it reflected Emanuel (God with us)

Gen 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

This is the same power spoken of in 2Corinthians 4:7 . Having nothing to do with the literal flesh of any nation as if God was a man as us.

2Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Because of the reformation we no longer know any man after the flesh of any nation. This is even tohught r temporally some did know Him after the flesh and those that did and sought after it he used as examples as faithless ones . we are commanded that we do not know him any longer after the flesh . The one time promised demonstration has been over for over two thousand literal years .

As His eternal bride we are considered new creatures and therefore no longer Jew nor gentile , male not female . We are lovingly commanded not to walk by sight after the flesh of any nation or man. Christ said of his own Jewish flesh it prop fits for nothing, zero. Again the one time demonstration is over.

He will not come in the flesh as if he was a man as us ever again .

The veil remains rent without a promise of mending it for another outward demonstration of a spiritual work not seen .He poured out His Spirit the work of his faith (plan) on flesh as that seen.His work of faith (planing and executing ) is perfect nothing can be added to it or taken away from it. .

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a "new creature": old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.2Co 5:16

I see no reason for this, There is no need to call any christian a remanant, All christians are Gods children. There is no remnant, they just are

The OT speaks of a remnant of Isreal. As does paul in romans 11. Yes, while they are christian jews, They are seperate from gentile christians.

 

[prove-all]

Revelation timeline chart

 

[Locutus]

Revelation timeline chart

Still pushing that Herbert Armstrong stuff presented by the Philadelphia Trumpet.

 

[abcdef]

How can the 1,000 years be an "assumption" when it is stated in black and white SIX TIMES within seven verses? You have added "It will be" but that not how it is stated. It is either "a thousand years" (Greek chilia ete) or "the thousand years". There can be no misunderstanding when the same thing is repeated over and over again.

The OP says "symbolic". Symbolic of WHAT? 50 years, 5,000 years, 5,000,000 years? Do you see how nonsensical that can become?

What does the number 1, symbolize in the Bible?

Number 2? 3? 4? 6? 7? 10? 12? 40? 144000?

Are you saying that there is absolutely no symbolism behind any of these numbers in the Bible??
1000 ?

Or are you saying that the numbers are only symbolic where you want them to be?

The number 1000, is symbolic of something, what?

What does the number, on it's own, in the Bible, symbolize? nothing? or something?

 

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Brother Ahwatukee,

As I continue to make known to you, you have no idea of the nature nor of the chronology regarding end-time events. However, you are certainly free to believe that mess that you've created. And you will also be held accountable for teaching those deceptions.

OK

Wow! After the 7th trumpet the end of this planet takes place.

That is correct, the story of the little scroll ends at the 7th/last trumpet. It is followed by a description of the beast that comes out of the abyss (place of the dead), who kills the people of Israel.

I guess God won't be able to keep His word by fulfilling the seven bowl judgments which follow the 7th trumpet nor the real thousand year period that Jesus is to reign in on this present earth.

The 7 vials/bowls, run at the same time as the 7 trumpets, 96 ad until the end of the kingdom on earth and the planet.

The 7 trumpets are God withdrawing His blessings on Israel for rejecting the gospel kingdom.

The vials are God withdrawing blessings on the iron dragon beast, primarily.

When you enter into that time of wrath, think back on all of these posts that I have given to you in refutation regarding all of the false teachings that you have believed in and taught, while you are observing all of God's real events of wrath via the coming literal events of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Also remember what God has said regarding adding to and taking away from the prophecy of this book.

Believing pre-trib is not a requirement for salvation.

We should not be too hard on those who disagree with us on prophecy.

Maybe it's just a matter of learning, or teaching.

But I believe that prophecy in the Bible is what God reveals to us, to our mind.

If God has chosen not to reveal something to someone, it doesn't mean that they are not saved (Christians), it only means that God hasn't revealed it to them, YET.