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The natural man
- Thread starter ForestGreenCook
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I do not believe anyone was born again until Jesus was Glorified . So no one was regenerated in the Old testament. Also I'm not sure what you mean by ' looking forward ' . Peter was not looking forward to the cross . He tried to prevent Jesus from going. He also chopped a man's ear off for trying to take him . None of the diciples understood the very thing that you could want to look ' forward ' to ?
Every time that you use some scripture that you think gives the natural man the ability to understand the things of the Spirit, and I then give you a scripture that does not harmonize with your theory and interpretation of the scripture that you are using to make the natural man have spiritual ability. There are plenty of my posts to reflect that. Refresh your memory by rechecking them.
I have, also, told you many times that when a newly born babe in Christ is first born, he survives on the milk of the word, not understanding much until he gradually grows into maturity. There are some things about God that you, nor I do not know, and probably never will know, because his ways are much higher than our ways. The unregenerate natural man, on the other hand, knows nothing about the things of the Spirit.
Thats because you have the cart before the horse . See folks may say " oh your always on at calvinists ..." Well out of all the theology within christianity, and I don't say this just to be sensational. But its the furthest off Biblically. I was shocked when i first started to look into this. It all started when i questioned works based salvation . I noticed Calvinsm for all its claims on OSAS , practically ( and I say this carefully) is a works based theology. It is a legalistic based theology. The more i looked beyond the P i was shocked to see how its possible the the system is so off and yet its called ' Christian ' . I don't say it to be mean . I've seen lots of people come out from it and be all the better for it . Thats my heart.
Actually, I said Peter was "on the spot" - meaning that he was together with our Lord. He neither looked forward (in time) to Messiah, nor did he look backwards (in time) as we do. As to hindering our Lord Jesus' death, you propose a difficulty. Are we born again because of Christ's death? Or is it an act of the Holy Spirit in the spirit of a man (Jn.3:6)? The death of our Lord was for sin and sins - a work of atonement OUTSIDE of us. Being BORN is by FAITH in Jesus - a Person (Jn.1:12-13, 3:14-16).
But as to being born again, I tend to agree with you - based on John 7:39 and 20:22. But it raises a difficulty. Both Moses and Elijah, AND three of twelve Apostles were on the Mount of Transfiguration and our Lord Jesus calls that His Kingdom (Matt.16:28). To SEE the Kingdom, a man must be born again. Thus, Moses, Elijah and three Apostles must have been born again BEFORE Christ was risen. Even more difficult is that a man's lifetime is all the time he has to believe. Hebrews 9:27 gives the next event as judgment. Moses must have become born again before he died - some 1,500 years before Christ was raised from the dead. And even more difficult is that Moses must have been in RESURRECTION to be in the Kingdom because (i) his body is fought for in Jude, and (ii) the old body is not fit for the Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50).
Now, maybe you are getting an inkling of why we must address the PROCESS of Christ as both God and Man IN TIME and IN ETERNITY - our "LOGICAL MYSTERY" - as I did in my previous posting. It is a complicated business, and somewhere along the way we will reach the limit of our human intellect. Scripture cannot be wrong, but we have limited understanding.
May the Lord bless us and give us His light on the subject.
But as to being born again, I tend to agree with you - based on John 7:39 and 20:22. But it raises a difficulty. Both Moses and Elijah, AND three of twelve Apostles were on the Mount of Transfiguration and our Lord Jesus calls that His Kingdom (Matt.16:28). To SEE the Kingdom, a man must be born again. Thus, Moses, Elijah and three Apostles must have been born again BEFORE Christ was risen. Even more difficult is that a man's lifetime is all the time he has to believe. Hebrews 9:27 gives the next event as judgment. Moses must have become born again before he died - some 1,500 years before Christ was raised from the dead. And even more difficult is that Moses must have been in RESURRECTION to be in the Kingdom because (i) his body is fought for in Jude, and (ii) the old body is not fit for the Kingdom (1st Cor.15:50).
Now, maybe you are getting an inkling of why we must address the PROCESS of Christ as both God and Man IN TIME and IN ETERNITY - our "LOGICAL MYSTERY" - as I did in my previous posting. It is a complicated business, and somewhere along the way we will reach the limit of our human intellect. Scripture cannot be wrong, but we have limited understanding.
May the Lord bless us and give us His light on the subject.
I have admitted, and confirm that the scriptures teach that after we are regenerated, we still carry the baggage of our fleshly nature with us, which causes a warfare within us of the Spirit against the flesh. Before we have been regenerated, we have only one personality, but after regeneration, we have two personalities.
I am making no error! "Save" in 1 Cor 21 is not referring to eternal deliverance, but a deliverance, here in time, There is a deliverance (salvation), for believing babes in Christ, when they come unto a knowledge of the righteousness of God, by preaching to them, the gospel.
The purpose of God's called preachers, is not to save (deliver) people eternally, God has already accomplished that by his sovereign grace, without the help of mankind, but it is to deliver (save) his regenerated babes in Christ from a lack of knowledge of the gospel, that reveals to them how that God has already accomplished their eternal deliverance (salvation).
The purpose of God's called preachers, is not to save (deliver) people eternally, God has already accomplished that by his sovereign grace, without the help of mankind, but it is to deliver (save) his regenerated babes in Christ from a lack of knowledge of the gospel, that reveals to them how that God has already accomplished their eternal deliverance (salvation).
I commend you on your dedication to study. And believe that you are sincere in your beliefs, but I encourage you to keep an open mind to the scriptures that I am referring to you.
The largest problem with almost all of the regenerated children of God is; that they do not understand the difference in the salvation scriptures. Salvation, saved and save, by Strong's interpretation, means; deliverance, delivered and deliver. The scriptures teach that there is an eternal deliverance, and there are deliverance's that the regenerate receive here in time.
The scriptures, also, teach that the truths of the doctrine of Christ are limited to the few, the remnant, the 144000. and become a mystery to the rest of God's regenerated children. I do not understand many of God's purposes, and this one confuses me the most, because the doctrine of Christ is the most comforting, secure, and peace offering doctrine of any that I have confronted.
I realise that Christ's doctrine is very unpopular with the majority, because of the limitation of it, and rightly so, but it has always been accepted in this way sense the days in which Christ preached it himself.
I know, without a doubt, that I will receive the harshest criticism from all on this forum, and be tagged as conceded, and prideful, but all that I ask, is that you keep an open mind, and seriously think about what I am presenting.
The largest problem with almost all of the regenerated children of God is; that they do not understand the difference in the salvation scriptures. Salvation, saved and save, by Strong's interpretation, means; deliverance, delivered and deliver. The scriptures teach that there is an eternal deliverance, and there are deliverance's that the regenerate receive here in time.
The scriptures, also, teach that the truths of the doctrine of Christ are limited to the few, the remnant, the 144000. and become a mystery to the rest of God's regenerated children. I do not understand many of God's purposes, and this one confuses me the most, because the doctrine of Christ is the most comforting, secure, and peace offering doctrine of any that I have confronted.
I realise that Christ's doctrine is very unpopular with the majority, because of the limitation of it, and rightly so, but it has always been accepted in this way sense the days in which Christ preached it himself.
I know, without a doubt, that I will receive the harshest criticism from all on this forum, and be tagged as conceded, and prideful, but all that I ask, is that you keep an open mind, and seriously think about what I am presenting.
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