THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21
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https://donaldelley.wordpress.com/2...istering-in-the-hillsong-new-york-city-choir/
Last year “Pastor” Brian Houston said to the media that gays aren’t in positions of ministry at Hillsong Church.
Then this year Brian Houston said that gays are not only welcome at Hillsong and “whatever makes you happy”.
Brian also said that he foresees it’s inevitable that gays will be married at Hillsong Church.
However despite Brian’s public declaration that gays aren’t in positions of ministry at Hillsong Church, the article below confirms that gays are still in positions of ministry at Hillsong Church.
Gays can be involved in the choir but supposedly not lead the choir, although there is no evidence gays aren’t still leading the choir and there is no evidence gays aren’t leading other Hillsong ministries at Hillsong NYC and at other Hillsong Churches. Like Hillsong London- which is very gay too.
The article below says that Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly told the journalist the following:
“Canfield and Kelly, for example, can sing in the choir, but would not be eligible to direct it”.
So the Hillsong leadership have supposedly taken Josh Canfield out of leading the choir, a position he held for eight years, but him and his male partner Reed Kelly, to whom Josh is engaged, are both ministering in the choir.
Hillsong NYC openly gay celebrities who minister in the choir. Josh Canfield (right) led the choir for eight years.
The article concludes:
“Canfield and Kelly have decided to keep singing each Sunday at Hillsong, despite the restrictions. They recognize that the decision they’ve made is not one that every person in their position should make. But they believe it is the right one for them.
“If every gay person leaves their church because they have been treated poorly, nothing will change,” Canfield said. “They still want us, and we feel called to stay. And we’re telling all our gay friends at Hillsong to do the same.””
Josh Canfield says, “And we’re telling all our gay friends at Hillsong to do the same”. That is, to stay at Hillsong New York City.
In other words, there are lots of openly gay men and women at Hillsong Church and despite these gays not having the slightest intention to repent of their gay sins, they don’t even think that they’re sinning, and they’re going right on with their gay faith at Hillsong, and even ministering in non-leadership levels at Hillsong Church.
This however is a contradiction because ministering in worship is a form of leadership.
It is also a very holy, important and dedicated ministry towards our Holy God.
Gay uncleanness and a Holy God are an impossible fit.
In fact, according the the Holy Scriptures in the Holy Bible- homosexuals and lesbians cannot even enter the kingdom of heaven. The Bible says this in many ways and many places throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament.
It is probable that Josh Canfield is still helping in various ways in leadership.
How can Josh Canfield, who was brought over from Hillsong London by Head Pastors Joel Houston, Brian Houston’s son, and Carl Lentz to help found Hillsong New York City eight years ago and lead the choir suddenly take a back-seat?
Here is the article confirming that gays are still ministering in the Hillsong New York City choir.
Religious New Service
Why TV’s ‘Broadway Boyfriends’ will keep singing with Hillsong Church
Jonathan Merritt
August 11, 2015
NEW YORK (RNS) The only thing worse than a false story is a partial one.
That was the real lesson behind an article published on a conservative Christian website last week claiming that the Hillsong Church was allowing an “openly homosexual couple” to lead worship. The article, about the New York City campus of the Australia-based super-church, where tens of thousands worship weekly, drew from a 7-month-old article from Playbill.com about two Broadway actors and contestants on the “Survivor” reality TV show, Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly.
The article triggered statements from Hillsong’s senior pastor, the Rev. Brian Houston in Australia, reaffirming the church’s belief that “marriage is between a man and a woman” and stating that neither man is serving in a leadership role any longer. But Houston also said that Hillsong wants gay couples to feel welcome.
Like many conservative churches, Hillsong holds a traditional view of sexuality but wants to welcome and include all people. Canfield and Kelly, like many gay couples, disagree with the church’s views on homosexuality. But unlike some others, they say they want to stay with the church they love and work for change.
Their story — echoed by so many LGBT Christians — is one that needs to be told.
Dating couple Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly, will be among the castaways competing on SURVIVOR this season, on the CBS Television Network.
Sitting in a Manhattan diner, Canfield and Kelly use Christian language with ease and regularly inject Bible verses into conversation. Canfield was raised in a conservative pastor’s home, attended an evangelical college and served on staff as a music minister years ago. Kelly, who was raised Catholic, says that rather than date, the couple chose to “court,” which included a mutual commitment to refrain from having sex until their wedding day. (They haven’t set a date.) On paper, they have a perfect conservative Christian relationship — except for their genders, of course.
Canfield was a music director at Hillsong’s campus in London and moved to New York City, in part, to help launch the congregation there. Soon after, he met Kelly and they both served the church faithfully in various capacities. Kelly even hosted (but did not lead) a Bible study group in his home for the church. In December, the couple informed the Rev. Carl Lentz, the lead pastor in New York, that they were getting engaged, which triggered a series of personal and ongoing conversations.
“At Hillsong, we take the time to sit at the table and hear their pain and hear their journey and consider their thinking,” Lentz said. “And when it is time to speak back to these people, we can speak from a place of observation, not condemnation.”
Lentz said his priority was to “make sure that these amazing guys weren’t mishandled or mistreated.”
Prior to the publication of the Playbill article, Lentz spoke to Houston about the situation and, as a result, asked Canfield and Kelly to step down from their leadership roles. At the same time, he invited them to serve in other roles and reaffirmed his desire to help them feel welcome and included in his congregation, which draws more than 7,000 worshippers weekly.
But the conversation did not end there.
“Me and my wife, Laura, are deeply involved in Josh and Reed’s lives,” Lentz said. “We have had ongoing, face-to-face discussions about God, sin, life and Jesus, because this is what you do in a church.”
In turn, Canfield and Kelly profess gratitude for their pastor and the rest of Hillsong’s staff. The couple’s demeanors do not darken when they speak of the ordeal.
Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly during a vacation in Tulum, Mexico in September 2013. Photo courtesy of Josh Canfield.
“We’re grateful for Pastor Carl, and we feel God has called us to be at Hillsong. He wants us to be a part of the church, knowing what we believe,” Kelly said. “This is our home church, and we are not leaving. It’s important for us to be there dialoguing about this.”
By all accounts, Hillsong does seem to want LGBT people to feel welcome — with limits. They are welcome to attend, worship, even participate as members. They are eligible to serve in some roles, but not others. Canfield and Kelly, for example, can sing in the choir, but would not be eligible to direct it. Houston even called Hillsong “a gay-welcoming church” in a statement. While this may sound regressive to many unfamiliar with Christianity, it is astounding given the history of evangelicalism’s treatment of LGBT people.
Lentz recognizes the obstacles he faces, but he said that won’t stop him from trying to find a way forward.
“(Hillsong’s) heart on this matter is to reach all people, even communities that present extreme complexities,” he said in an email. “We would rather be misunderstood and look ‘messy’ to some in the Christian community that do not agree with us and help some, than appease people that think differently and reach none.”
Lentz noted that young gay people are committing suicide in record numbers and yet they find no refuge in most churches. Furthermore, he said, many churches have accepted a system that forces people to “hide their tensions, questions, and strongholds for fear of exclusion.”
“People can’t get over the fact that we’re preaching the whole counsel of God and that people still want to listen to it, even in disagreement, because they know they are loved,” Lentz said. “But here are two people — and there are many more — who know what we believe and still want to be a part.”
READ: How Hillsong Church is becoming ‘gay-welcoming’ without compromising its convictions
So, two things of value have happened that may not satisfy conservative evangelicals or LGBT activists. One of the most influential evangelical churches in the world has both reaffirmed its commitment to traditional views on sexuality and has shown a level of openness and flexibility on the matter that would have been difficult to imagine even a decade ago.
Canfield and Kelly have decided to keep singing each Sunday at Hillsong, despite the restrictions. They recognize that the decision they’ve made is not one that every person in their position should make. But they believe it is the right one for them.
“If every gay person leaves their church because they have been treated poorly, nothing will change,” Canfield said. “They still want us, and we feel called to stay. And we’re telling all our gay friends at Hillsong to do the same.”
Last year “Pastor” Brian Houston said to the media that gays aren’t in positions of ministry at Hillsong Church.
Then this year Brian Houston said that gays are not only welcome at Hillsong and “whatever makes you happy”.
Brian also said that he foresees it’s inevitable that gays will be married at Hillsong Church.
However despite Brian’s public declaration that gays aren’t in positions of ministry at Hillsong Church, the article below confirms that gays are still in positions of ministry at Hillsong Church.
Gays can be involved in the choir but supposedly not lead the choir, although there is no evidence gays aren’t still leading the choir and there is no evidence gays aren’t leading other Hillsong ministries at Hillsong NYC and at other Hillsong Churches. Like Hillsong London- which is very gay too.
The article below says that Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly told the journalist the following:
“Canfield and Kelly, for example, can sing in the choir, but would not be eligible to direct it”.
So the Hillsong leadership have supposedly taken Josh Canfield out of leading the choir, a position he held for eight years, but him and his male partner Reed Kelly, to whom Josh is engaged, are both ministering in the choir.
The article concludes:
“Canfield and Kelly have decided to keep singing each Sunday at Hillsong, despite the restrictions. They recognize that the decision they’ve made is not one that every person in their position should make. But they believe it is the right one for them.
“If every gay person leaves their church because they have been treated poorly, nothing will change,” Canfield said. “They still want us, and we feel called to stay. And we’re telling all our gay friends at Hillsong to do the same.””
Josh Canfield says, “And we’re telling all our gay friends at Hillsong to do the same”. That is, to stay at Hillsong New York City.
In other words, there are lots of openly gay men and women at Hillsong Church and despite these gays not having the slightest intention to repent of their gay sins, they don’t even think that they’re sinning, and they’re going right on with their gay faith at Hillsong, and even ministering in non-leadership levels at Hillsong Church.
This however is a contradiction because ministering in worship is a form of leadership.
It is also a very holy, important and dedicated ministry towards our Holy God.
Gay uncleanness and a Holy God are an impossible fit.
In fact, according the the Holy Scriptures in the Holy Bible- homosexuals and lesbians cannot even enter the kingdom of heaven. The Bible says this in many ways and many places throughout the Old Testament and the New Testament.
It is probable that Josh Canfield is still helping in various ways in leadership.
How can Josh Canfield, who was brought over from Hillsong London by Head Pastors Joel Houston, Brian Houston’s son, and Carl Lentz to help found Hillsong New York City eight years ago and lead the choir suddenly take a back-seat?
Here is the article confirming that gays are still ministering in the Hillsong New York City choir.
Religious New Service
Why TV’s ‘Broadway Boyfriends’ will keep singing with Hillsong Church
Jonathan Merritt
August 11, 2015
NEW YORK (RNS) The only thing worse than a false story is a partial one.
That was the real lesson behind an article published on a conservative Christian website last week claiming that the Hillsong Church was allowing an “openly homosexual couple” to lead worship. The article, about the New York City campus of the Australia-based super-church, where tens of thousands worship weekly, drew from a 7-month-old article from Playbill.com about two Broadway actors and contestants on the “Survivor” reality TV show, Josh Canfield and Reed Kelly.
The article triggered statements from Hillsong’s senior pastor, the Rev. Brian Houston in Australia, reaffirming the church’s belief that “marriage is between a man and a woman” and stating that neither man is serving in a leadership role any longer. But Houston also said that Hillsong wants gay couples to feel welcome.
Like many conservative churches, Hillsong holds a traditional view of sexuality but wants to welcome and include all people. Canfield and Kelly, like many gay couples, disagree with the church’s views on homosexuality. But unlike some others, they say they want to stay with the church they love and work for change.
Their story — echoed by so many LGBT Christians — is one that needs to be told.
Sitting in a Manhattan diner, Canfield and Kelly use Christian language with ease and regularly inject Bible verses into conversation. Canfield was raised in a conservative pastor’s home, attended an evangelical college and served on staff as a music minister years ago. Kelly, who was raised Catholic, says that rather than date, the couple chose to “court,” which included a mutual commitment to refrain from having sex until their wedding day. (They haven’t set a date.) On paper, they have a perfect conservative Christian relationship — except for their genders, of course.
Canfield was a music director at Hillsong’s campus in London and moved to New York City, in part, to help launch the congregation there. Soon after, he met Kelly and they both served the church faithfully in various capacities. Kelly even hosted (but did not lead) a Bible study group in his home for the church. In December, the couple informed the Rev. Carl Lentz, the lead pastor in New York, that they were getting engaged, which triggered a series of personal and ongoing conversations.
“At Hillsong, we take the time to sit at the table and hear their pain and hear their journey and consider their thinking,” Lentz said. “And when it is time to speak back to these people, we can speak from a place of observation, not condemnation.”
Lentz said his priority was to “make sure that these amazing guys weren’t mishandled or mistreated.”
Prior to the publication of the Playbill article, Lentz spoke to Houston about the situation and, as a result, asked Canfield and Kelly to step down from their leadership roles. At the same time, he invited them to serve in other roles and reaffirmed his desire to help them feel welcome and included in his congregation, which draws more than 7,000 worshippers weekly.
But the conversation did not end there.
“Me and my wife, Laura, are deeply involved in Josh and Reed’s lives,” Lentz said. “We have had ongoing, face-to-face discussions about God, sin, life and Jesus, because this is what you do in a church.”
In turn, Canfield and Kelly profess gratitude for their pastor and the rest of Hillsong’s staff. The couple’s demeanors do not darken when they speak of the ordeal.
“We’re grateful for Pastor Carl, and we feel God has called us to be at Hillsong. He wants us to be a part of the church, knowing what we believe,” Kelly said. “This is our home church, and we are not leaving. It’s important for us to be there dialoguing about this.”
By all accounts, Hillsong does seem to want LGBT people to feel welcome — with limits. They are welcome to attend, worship, even participate as members. They are eligible to serve in some roles, but not others. Canfield and Kelly, for example, can sing in the choir, but would not be eligible to direct it. Houston even called Hillsong “a gay-welcoming church” in a statement. While this may sound regressive to many unfamiliar with Christianity, it is astounding given the history of evangelicalism’s treatment of LGBT people.
Lentz recognizes the obstacles he faces, but he said that won’t stop him from trying to find a way forward.
“(Hillsong’s) heart on this matter is to reach all people, even communities that present extreme complexities,” he said in an email. “We would rather be misunderstood and look ‘messy’ to some in the Christian community that do not agree with us and help some, than appease people that think differently and reach none.”
Lentz noted that young gay people are committing suicide in record numbers and yet they find no refuge in most churches. Furthermore, he said, many churches have accepted a system that forces people to “hide their tensions, questions, and strongholds for fear of exclusion.”
“People can’t get over the fact that we’re preaching the whole counsel of God and that people still want to listen to it, even in disagreement, because they know they are loved,” Lentz said. “But here are two people — and there are many more — who know what we believe and still want to be a part.”
READ: How Hillsong Church is becoming ‘gay-welcoming’ without compromising its convictions
So, two things of value have happened that may not satisfy conservative evangelicals or LGBT activists. One of the most influential evangelical churches in the world has both reaffirmed its commitment to traditional views on sexuality and has shown a level of openness and flexibility on the matter that would have been difficult to imagine even a decade ago.
Canfield and Kelly have decided to keep singing each Sunday at Hillsong, despite the restrictions. They recognize that the decision they’ve made is not one that every person in their position should make. But they believe it is the right one for them.
“If every gay person leaves their church because they have been treated poorly, nothing will change,” Canfield said. “They still want us, and we feel called to stay. And we’re telling all our gay friends at Hillsong to do the same.”
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow. Ecclesiastes 1:18
("Wisdom" without God only brings "griefs." "Knowledge" without God only brings "sorrow."
This is not to say that these attributes are disapproved of by the Lord. The meaning is that even these lofty ideals will bring no satisfaction without Christ.)
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Proverbs 18:21
(Christians who constantly talk doubt, in effect, talk "death." These who speak the Word of God speak "life.")
Everything that mans does dies; everything Jesus does lives forever and is blessed.
The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)
Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!
("Wisdom" without God only brings "griefs." "Knowledge" without God only brings "sorrow."
This is not to say that these attributes are disapproved of by the Lord. The meaning is that even these lofty ideals will bring no satisfaction without Christ.)
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Proverbs 18:21
(Christians who constantly talk doubt, in effect, talk "death." These who speak the Word of God speak "life.")
Everything that mans does dies; everything Jesus does lives forever and is blessed.
The Way Of The Spirit
Focus: The Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:6)
Object Of Faith: The Cross of Christ (Romans 6:1-14)
Power Source: The Holy Spirit (Romans 8:1-2, 11)
Results: Victory (Romans 6:14)
Man's Way
Focus: Works.
Object Of Faith: Performance.
Power Source: Self.
Results: Defeat!
S
never u mind
pictures speak louder than words
but I know what u mean
uprooting the installed gay couple and others, would create such a backlash it would make the news
it's all hush hush
and so it is the problem in the main church with the older men chasing younger women culture
as in, 'I want one of them thar newer flashy models'
can u say that with an Australian accent? might sound sexier if you could
I don't know how anyone can read Job and come to this conclusion. In some sense, this type of thinking elevates humans to God's level.
I agree with Joanie/Lynn on so many things, but this idea that God is not going to allow ANYTHING "bad" to happen to us is a growing problem here.
It negates Romans 8:28
And if that is negated, then the BETTER Resurrection spoken of in Hebrews 11 is negated as well.
[FONT="]35 Women received their dead raised to life again.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection.
You say God is not going to allow "torture" which is what happened to Job, but in the end ALL THINGS WORKED FOR THE GOOD for Job.
Were the saints who were sawn in 2 in Hebrews too sin conscious? Which BTW, I DO agree with you is dangerous to do, but has NOTHING to do with satan torturing Job.
God has His Own Plans which will ultimately be for our good. I think you need to reexamine this prosperity Gospel stuff dear sister.[/FONT]
oh
no
there we have the YOU PEOPLE rebuke
that's serious
anyone feel the need to hide?
no
there we have the YOU PEOPLE rebuke
that's serious
anyone feel the need to hide?
Although I do not like using an ignore list, I feel the need to put you on one.
Now there is the biggest misunderstanding.....NOBODY says nothing bad will happen to anybody. Us Woofers have bad things happen too. Satan attacks us too with all sorts of his junk. We just handle it differently. We reject it and send it packing. We resist the devil. That does not mean we sit and grit our teeth to bear it. Satan puts illness on me, I tell him to take it on himself I do not want it and its got to go NOW..... He tried to put poverty on me and I tell my father about it. He tells me that His Grace (His empowering PRESENCE) is sufficient, and I send poverty away. Prosperity returns. What do you want? Live the Word. Judging others that don't believe your way is not living the Word
funny thing you resist the devil, ut that is only 1 part of that verse...not one woofer I know has ever submitted to God and then resisted the devil...ya'll just submit to your faith and then resist and you quite clearly condemn anyone that goes through a trial...
I lived this circus for years in the birthplace of it all...so stop splashing me in the face with water and then wipe your mouth and say, hey friend, it must be rain
I lived this circus for years in the birthplace of it all...so stop splashing me in the face with water and then wipe your mouth and say, hey friend, it must be rain
S
One of the most sickening things to happen to Christianity is the infiltration of the Word of Faith Movement. Those that adhere to this “theology” follow the most extreme of heretical doctrines. Word of Faith preachers are commonly seen on TV and many have amassed a large group of followers. How people are so naive as to buy into their beliefs is beyond me. Generally speaking they teach that God wants his people to be healthy, wealthy, and happy all the time, and that if you say the right words (I mean literally speak in the correct “formula”), in faith, then God is obligated to deliver. God is approached as some sort of Cosmic Genie in a bottle.
The Word of Faith (WOF) movement is false and twists Scripture in order to support their erroneous views and to continue enriching the Word of Faith leaders themselves. Many of them live in mansions, wear expensive designer clothes, drive the most prestigious vehicles, and some even have private jets. The teachers rationalize their lavish, wasteful lifestyles as being “proof” that the Word of Faith teachings are true.
The Word of Faith (WOF) movement is false and twists Scripture in order to support their erroneous views and to continue enriching the Word of Faith leaders themselves. Many of them live in mansions, wear expensive designer clothes, drive the most prestigious vehicles, and some even have private jets. The teachers rationalize their lavish, wasteful lifestyles as being “proof” that the Word of Faith teachings are true.
Why are you posting about these other Christians who do questionable things out there in the bigger world of Christians with me or anyone here on this thread? I don't know those people nor have I looked up what any of these Christians have done or why.
Does it make your disagreement with me and those here about Job stronger by dis crediting other Christian people and saying they hold to doctrines of demons? Is it possible for you to discuss the topics at hand and not call forth what others are doing and associating those of us here with them over there?
I don't hold to the things Pastor John MacGarther preaches nor do I post threads about him and why I don't like him and the mistakes and failures of him in his life. It would be so wrong for me to post of his failures and the other Christians who follow him who have failed. Why? because humans fail and will fail until we are in heaven where we no longer will fight the good fight of faith.
To put up those failures so I can "win" in a doctrinal discussion here on CC would be beneath me as a Christian. Isn't it beneath you too?
S
Word of Faith is not an actual denomination nor does it have a rigid set standard or doctrinal creed or statement. Beliefs differ somewhat from teacher to teacher, but the vast majority profess that children of God have a “right” to the good things in life. All they have to do is believe and ask God correctly for what they want. Entire books have been written on the movement and the heresy and blasphemy taught within. I highly recommend Hank Hanegraaff’s “Christianity In Crisis: 21st Century,” John MacArthur’s “Charismatic Chaos” and “Strange Fire.” With this brief article I have narrowed it down to three of their main errors, a “trinity” of errors if you will.
The First False Teaching: Words are Encapsulated with Power
Literal words have actual power contained within them. That’s why people often refer to them as “name it and claim it” or “blab it and grab it.” WOF teachers will quote a verse like Matthew 11:24, emphasizing only the belief aspect of it: “Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours” (NIV).
The Bible, however, teaches that God’s will determines the answer to our prayers
The First False Teaching: Words are Encapsulated with Power
Literal words have actual power contained within them. That’s why people often refer to them as “name it and claim it” or “blab it and grab it.” WOF teachers will quote a verse like Matthew 11:24, emphasizing only the belief aspect of it: “Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours” (NIV).
The Bible, however, teaches that God’s will determines the answer to our prayers
One of the most sickening things to happen to Christianity is the infiltration of the Word of Faith Movement. Those that adhere to this “theology” follow the most extreme of heretical doctrines. Word of Faith preachers are commonly seen on TV and many have amassed a large group of followers. How people are so naive as to buy into their beliefs is beyond me. Generally speaking they teach that God wants his people to be healthy, wealthy, and happy all the time, and that if you say the right words (I mean literally speak in the correct “formula”), in faith, then God is obligated to deliver. God is approached as some sort of Cosmic Genie in a bottle.
The Word of Faith (WOF) movement is false and twists Scripture in order to support their erroneous views and to continue enriching the Word of Faith leaders themselves. Many of them live in mansions, wear expensive designer clothes, drive the most prestigious vehicles, and some even have private jets. The teachers rationalize their lavish, wasteful lifestyles as being “proof” that the Word of Faith teachings are true.
The Word of Faith (WOF) movement is false and twists Scripture in order to support their erroneous views and to continue enriching the Word of Faith leaders themselves. Many of them live in mansions, wear expensive designer clothes, drive the most prestigious vehicles, and some even have private jets. The teachers rationalize their lavish, wasteful lifestyles as being “proof” that the Word of Faith teachings are true.