THE POWER OF THE TONGUE PROVERBS 18:21
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Here is a view about Job and the power of the tongue that "creates" things. I like to use this website from time to time as it has articles based on the finished work of Christ and in light of the New Covenant and how that is different than in the Old Testament way of things.
I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.
People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15
Ten Little Known Facts about Job
Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:
I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.
“But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.
But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:
1. Job was superstitious
Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).
2. Job was sin-conscious
Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).
3. Job was full of fear
Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).
4. Job was full of self-pity
Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.
5. Job allowed bitterness to take root
Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).
6. Job was self-righteous
Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).
Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).
7. Job thought God didn’t care
“Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).
8. Job blamed God for his troubles
It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).
Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).
9. Job thought God was trying to kill him
“Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).
10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead
Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).
Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.
But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).
As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!
Unquote:
Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/22/little-known-facts-about-job/
I also like the fact that we can ask questions at the bottom of the article and I have learned from others there as well. This may "conflict" with some things we were taught in our church teachings in the past - depending on which denomination we were under.
People are free to have a different view too without personal attacks and biting and devouring each other as Paul says in Gal. 5:15
Ten Little Known Facts about Job
Many people consider Job a great man and a champion of the faith. Job, you will recall, lost everything (his family, wealth and health), then sat on a dunghill scratching himself with a broken plate while having a theology debate with seminarians. As a result of this rich, life-affirming experience, many people now believe the following lies:
- God gives and takes away good things like children, health, jobs
- God uses sickness to punish or discipline me
- God puts me through hard times to teach me humility
- God uses Satan as a sheepdog to keep the sheep in line
I want to offer a different perspective. The Book of Job is not about a great man but a flawed man. The Job we read about was not the man of God many think he was, but a superstitious and fearful man who said some stupendously dumb things. His story is not about the triumph of the human spirit, but the awesome grace God gives to broken humanity.
“But Job was a righteous man.” Actually, he was a self-righteous man and basically an unbeliever, as we shall see. I’m not knocking Job. My purpose is to show you how grace changes broken people like you, me, and Job. By the time we get to the end of this short series, you’re going to be amazed at some of the good things God says about this imperfect man.
But to finish well we must begin with a proper understanding of Job’s state apart from God. So here are ten little known facts about Job:
1. Job was superstitious
Like many religious people, Job believed in karma. He subscribed to the faithless wisdom of sowing and reaping. If his kids threw a wild party, Job would bring a sacrifice. “They might’ve sinned; I’d better do something about it.” Debits and credits. “This was Job’s regular custom” (Job 1:5).
2. Job was sin-conscious
Not his sins, of course, because he didn’t have any. (Cough!) He was a good man who kept the ledger clean. But Job viewed sin like kryptonite (see Job 31:11-12). He was terrified of it and thought about it constantly (see Job 31).
3. Job was full of fear
Job was insecure and bound with fear. He would’ve been the perfect customer for an insurance salesman because he feared calamities and disasters that would wipe him out (Job 31:23). When that happened he said, “What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me” (Job 3:25).
4. Job was full of self-pity
Read Job’s words and you get a strong sense of “Woe is me.” Although his woes were legitimate, he was utterly focused on his own sorry state. He was self-indulgent to the point of whining. “I will give free rein to my complaint” (Job 10:1). And complain he did.
5. Job allowed bitterness to take root
Bitterness is a grace-killer, but Job allowed that evil weed to flourish in the garden of his heart. “I will complain in the bitterness of my soul” (Job 7:11).
6. Job was self-righteous
Job’s confidence was not in the Lord but his own good behavior. “How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin” (Job 13:23). Like an indignant Pharisee Job had an inflated sense of his moral performance. “Let God weigh me in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless” (Job 31:6).
Job’s self-trust reinforced his victim mentality. “Can anyone bring charges against me?” (Job 13:19). Eventually his self-righteousness became so odorous that it even silenced the self-righteous men who came to counsel him. “These three men stopped answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes” (Job 32:1).
7. Job thought God didn’t care
“Even if I summoned him and he responded, I do not believe he would give me a hearing” (Job 9:16). Job’s self-pitying distorted his perception of God’s character. Like many people going through hard times, Job thought God was opposed to him (Job 13:24).
8. Job blamed God for his troubles
It is often taught that Job never blamed God (which is a misreading of Job 1:22; more on this later). However, Job did not hesitate to point the finger at “the Almighty, who has made my life bitter” (Job 27:2). A storm killed his kids and tribal raiders stole his herds, yet Job attributed his loss to a God who gives and takes away (Job 1:21). Again and again Job said God was the cause of his trouble (see Job 2:10, 6:4).
Given his good behavior, Job couldn’t make sense of this divine unfairness. “Don’t you have better things to do than pick on me?” (Job 7:20, MSG). God moves in mysterious ways, thought Job. At any time he might “crush me with a storm and multiply my wounds for no reason” (Job 9:17).
9. Job thought God was trying to kill him
“Although I am blameless… He destroys both the blameless and the wicked” (Job 9:21-22). Job actually thought that God was trying to kill him. “You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me… I know you will bring me down to death” (Job 30:21,23).
10. Consequently, Job despaired of life and wished he was dead
Job loathed his life (see Job 7:16). “Who can see any hope for me?” (Job 17:15). This so-called hero of the faith had a death wish. “I prefer strangling and death, rather than this body of mine” (Job 7:15). Job had no faith in a God who heals and restores, but said, “the only home I hope for is the grave” (Job 17:13).
Many people honor Job as a giant of the faith who was renowned for his great patience. However, Job is not listed in Hebrews 11 among the other heroes of the faith and the only righteousness he exhibited was the stinky, self-made kind.
But stick around because we’re going to see that God’s grace is for imperfect people like Job. “He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth the needy out of the dunghill” (Psa 113:7).
As we will see, Job’s life had a second act. Before he met the Lord Job was a whiner who falsely blamed God for his troubles; but afterwards he become a brand new man, a man that God saw as righteous and upright. It is an amazing story and you won’t want to miss it!
Unquote:
Here is the web address if anyone wishes to look at the questions.
https://escapetoreality.org/2015/10/22/little-known-facts-about-job/
Another post worth posting here about Job. I notice no anger., no offence given., no condemnation from the poster. This Christian is able to discuss differences without anger or malice to those who don't see the same about Job as he does.
S
your friend did not clear up anything
it turns out that Brian Houston is subjective about what he tells the truth about
I don't post hearsay or rumors
I check the facts before I post
Houston has a record of putting a spin on truths that reveal a different side of Hillsong and United then the shiny CD's that people purchase
so ignore it and tell someone who knows nothing other than what he has read or heard, that he cleared it up
that's an awful dark window he is putting in front of you. I'm sorry that is going on
This is how I handle angry people here on CC who judge my heart because of what I believe and post. I stop reading their posts after a while completely. I start reading the first few sentences.., and then when they are obviously guessing and judging my feelings and then later in their posts begin stating their feelings about me as facts I regard their posts as unfruitful. I'm aware that words can be poisonous.
So I believe we who don't travel that way here on CC should keep posting healing words and not contend with those who seek to harm and hurt with their words against another Christian. Being challenged as to why we hold to the truths of the Bible is a good thing. It's something we should learn how to do well. But contending to defend our place as Christians here is not good when we are being condemned as of the devil
This kind of accusation is not worthy of our time and only causes fuel to the fire of condemnation. satan wants that. And he can use even angry believers using mis quoted Words of God just like he did in the garden against Adam and Eve. We shouldn't be ignorant of his devices by answering back in like manner. So stop., regroup in the love of God in Christ and begin again.
So I believe we who don't travel that way here on CC should keep posting healing words and not contend with those who seek to harm and hurt with their words against another Christian. Being challenged as to why we hold to the truths of the Bible is a good thing. It's something we should learn how to do well. But contending to defend our place as Christians here is not good when we are being condemned as of the devil
This kind of accusation is not worthy of our time and only causes fuel to the fire of condemnation. satan wants that. And he can use even angry believers using mis quoted Words of God just like he did in the garden against Adam and Eve. We shouldn't be ignorant of his devices by answering back in like manner. So stop., regroup in the love of God in Christ and begin again.
I agree we should focus on what they teach and see how it lines up with scripture.
I think if someone is public figure and their teachings are for the wider public we do have to be discerning and we can point out concerns, but again it does not have to be a personal attack.
I will also state that sometimes some preachers do make it difficult because of their lifestyle to discuss Jesus with non-believers since we are often put in a position we we have to explain why they should not be the focus only Jesus.
Having said that before I was saved I remember having a strong dislike for Billy Graham and I had no real basis for it only that I could not understand what he was teaching.
I think if someone is public figure and their teachings are for the wider public we do have to be discerning and we can point out concerns, but again it does not have to be a personal attack.
I will also state that sometimes some preachers do make it difficult because of their lifestyle to discuss Jesus with non-believers since we are often put in a position we we have to explain why they should not be the focus only Jesus.
Having said that before I was saved I remember having a strong dislike for Billy Graham and I had no real basis for it only that I could not understand what he was teaching.
I must admit to you sister that for many years I was so entrenched in legalism it became a part of my personality. To this day I have a hard time going to churches where people show any emotion. So fast my mind goes to judging their heart motives. It has limited me for years before the Holy Spirit began to show me what I was doing.
When Christians would raise their arms in church and worship I was annoyed. It took the Holy Spirit to show me the error of my ways and for me to (even today) work through my feelings when Christians start to worship that way. Even when other Christians pray and they go on and on I'm very judgmental and must check myself. Yet in all this I've learned there is no condemnation for me or them. Even if we are stupid, the blood of Jesus has paid for our stupidity from start to finish.
What is left for me to do is keep working out my salvation with the seriousness of using what I've learned. Jesus has worked in so many things at the time of my salvation. One of them is no condemnation and no judgment. Now it's my job as a daughter to work that out. It takes time and I wish it didn't but it's a reality of living in this flesh and blood body.
When there are very rich believers in the world I used to also harshly judge them as well. But then the Holy Spirit showed me how to work out some of the prosperity that Jesus worked in me and I saw that it's our job to work out how to be prosperous too.
We will be judged by other believers and the world for having huge blessings. Blessings that others have not yet learned how to work out of their salvation. But that cannot stop us from working these things out ourselves no more that believing in the healing Jesus blessed us with at the time of our salvation.
Some believers will not always understand why we hold to the truths of healing the way we do and the truths of not allowing poverty and sickness be in our lives. They will misunderstand and judge and condemn. They don't know our intimate stories of life and the way Jesus has led us up and out. I didn't until He began to reveal the walk to me through the Holy Spirit. I'm learning how and will continue to learn until I leave planet earth. I have not yet "arrived" but I'm daily working at working it out.
Judging others has become a part of me that I am daily learning how to get rid of. The fear of being judged is a biggie for me but one I've taken a hold of and am ferociously learning to get rid of. It's much like we love God because He first loved us. We can't learn how to love others until we know how much God in Christ has loved and does love us. So when we are taken apart wrongfully even on CC it challenges me to remember how harshly I judge and yet God has not condemned me and thrown me away. He keeps working with me graciously. And He loves those here the same exact way.
It comes back to the love of God in Christ and how we received first our salvation. By grace through faith. The Holy Spirit can teach us where we went wrong and we can learn graciously without being condemned because He will never condemn us. He shows us our righteousness in Christ and we learn from that stepping board at all times. So just because He challenges us does not mean He is condemning us. The enemy condemns. The Holy Spirit always affirms who we are IN Christ and that He will continue with us till we leave this planet. If I'm feeling an anger that is in any way seething I know that is not of Jesus but of my flesh.
Then it's "stop...go back....detour..." Go the right way not the flesh way. Challenge yes.. condemn... no
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The thing I continue to not understand, is why these error filled, hypergrace Joseph Prince devotionals are allowed at all. They are so rife with lies, untruths and egregious speculation, I wouldn't use them in an outhouse, for fear of contaminating the outhouse!
I had hoped we had seen the last of this hypergrace inventor, JP, and I do faithfully report every one Joanie-Marie posts, according to the stickie on this topic.
I guess money talks in more places than just Hillsong, or Word Faith preachers who get rich fleecing the flock.
I don't know, if constantly posting devotionals from the hypergrace man himself, each devotional reinforcing the lies of this heresy, isn't an infraction of the above post, I don't know what is! To say nothing of the division and outrage they cause. You know when Arminians, Calvinists, Pentecostals and non charismatics band together unanimously, something is deeply wrong with what Joseph Prince is saying!
I had hoped we had seen the last of this hypergrace inventor, JP, and I do faithfully report every one Joanie-Marie posts, according to the stickie on this topic.
I guess money talks in more places than just Hillsong, or Word Faith preachers who get rich fleecing the flock.
I don't know, if constantly posting devotionals from the hypergrace man himself, each devotional reinforcing the lies of this heresy, isn't an infraction of the above post, I don't know what is! To say nothing of the division and outrage they cause. You know when Arminians, Calvinists, Pentecostals and non charismatics band together unanimously, something is deeply wrong with what Joseph Prince is saying!
S
the rhetoric about people attacking the op is not true as I tried to point out
what I have noticed, is that this and other errors, when pointed out, does not matter how polite you are (and of course we know not everyone is polite) generates a 'personal attack' response
in other words, the emotions rise to the surface and instead of dealing with the objections, and the exposure of the error, the person digs in and says they are being attacked
well they are not being attacked, of course
however these errors are held close to the heart because they appeal to the flesh because THEIR god would never be the God of the Old Testament
their god is the God of the New Testament and Jesus was mixed up with law and stuff
the deceiver is very busy and since only some of Jesus words need attending to, everything He said concerning deception is out the window because we all have the Holy Spirit now
we are all self taught. it would be funny if it wasn't tragic. on the one hand they will do a smack down on a cessationist but on the other they seem to think that the gift of teaching means self taught
only God can sort out the mess
and one more thing
this lie about judging the heart? that's another false arguement like the personal attack excuse
I have said many times that we do not judge the heart
the lies, exaggerations and bad excuses are giving off an odor that has nothing to do with the real fragrance of Christ
For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing;
II Cor. 2:15
U
You feel qualified to judge someone's heart?
Where is that in what Jesus taught?
Oh and by the way, it has always been a mess....Satan was there from the start and I am told he does not take a day off
Best thing I ever did was give away thirty years worth of books of supposed theological teaching
Spurgeon, Bonehoffer, Sproul, Tillich, MacArthur, Bunyan, Lewis, MacDonald, Piper, Edwards, Tournier, Martin-Lloyd Jones and on and on.....
I do not own any book by JP and have listened to him a few times to see what the commotion was about ....
but one thing I am sure of, if MacArthur was posted every day it would not be a problem, yet Lordship salvation is far from biblical too.
Where is that in what Jesus taught?
Oh and by the way, it has always been a mess....Satan was there from the start and I am told he does not take a day off
Best thing I ever did was give away thirty years worth of books of supposed theological teaching
Spurgeon, Bonehoffer, Sproul, Tillich, MacArthur, Bunyan, Lewis, MacDonald, Piper, Edwards, Tournier, Martin-Lloyd Jones and on and on.....
I do not own any book by JP and have listened to him a few times to see what the commotion was about ....
but one thing I am sure of, if MacArthur was posted every day it would not be a problem, yet Lordship salvation is far from biblical too.
On the one hand those who disagree with me even here on this thread of mine say it has nothing to do with a personal attack. It only has to do with bringing forth truth. Really? It's always about personal attacks from the usual people when someone like me disagrees with the status quo of any long held interpretation of the Bible. Such as Job even when Job was not the topic of the OP to begin with. The devotional was about the power of the tongue. But the discussion evolved into the struggles Job went through and we began discussing that.
Although many here who have posted against me can't fathom it., there are many believers in the world who do not agree with them. And there are many who don't agree with me. How should we each react when someone else in the body of Christ doesn't see the same things in the Bible as we do and see something a bit differently? I believe I'm not to condemn their personal character by judging their hearts and motives. It's ok and even healthy for us to agree to disagree. To know no one person on the planet has the Bible truth in their mind 100% except for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
We will be learning the truth from the Word of God for as many years as we are alive. Disagreeing with someone about certain Bible interpretations is not holding the hand of satan himself as Meggido posted here about me. Until Christians stop such false accusations they will not be any good at discussion about the Bible. This kind of condemnation does nothing for good.