The problem of being rich

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TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
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#21
Perhaps I was taught incorrectly, but I was always instructed that the wealth of such men in the Bible was a direct result of the blessings of the Lord.

When I read your post, I was thinking of Isaac in particular:

1. Gen. 6:12-23 -- "The Lord blessed Isaac, and his wealth continued to grow until he became exceedingly wealthy, that even the Philistines envied him."

2. I was also thinking of the fact that Laban continuously tried to cheat Jacob, such as with the speckled and spotted livestock, but yet God blessed him and made sure the herds had exactly those offspring which Laban had proclaimed as Jacob's wages.

Whatever Laban tried to cheat Jacob out of, God simply gave him more, as Jacob tells Laban in Genesis 31:42 -- "If the God of my father, the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac had not been with me, you would surely have sent me away empty-handed."

3. God also told Solomon that he had not asked for riches, but that God would granted them to him along with the wisdom he asked for: 2 Chronicles 1:11 -- "And I will also give you wealth, possessions and honor, such as no king before you and none after you will have." Clearly, Solomon's riches came at least in part, directly from the Lord.

4. Abraham's servant Eliezer declared: "The Lord has greatly blessed my master, so that he has become rich..." (Gen. 24:35). "He has given him flocks and herds, gold and silver, servants, and maids.

5. God tells David in 2 Samuel 12:8 -- "I gave your master's household to you."

I could not find a specific passage about Joseph of Arimathea, but I do believe that "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

Of course, any gift can be used for the good or for the bad, or can be seen as good or bad in nature.

In Joseph's case, he chose to use his gifts to supply the tomb where Jesus was laid.

Whatever these men may have had, God clearly had a hand in blessing them with it.
exactly how is blindness a blessing? https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Gen 27
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,848
975
113
#22
Jesus state the problem being rich, and that is difficult to enter heaven.

It do not mean impossible, some rich like Abraham king David go to heaven, but Jesus say difficult.

It may talking about procentation

It may 90 percent of heaven population was poor when they live on earth.

But Jesus never lie, and when He say it is difficult for rich enter to heaven, mean difficult.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,643
1,216
113
#23
Well, many churches preach that Jesus was financially poor in the 4 Gospels, using that popular passage about foxes have holes...but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

So after so many years of hearing that, many Christians naturally think that, to be like Jesus, to bear the cross, we should not pray for financial blessings. After all, even Jesus was poor. :)
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#24
Your are obviously invested in an interest bearing account that will one day provide great dividends.
Luke 12:16-21 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
16 Then Jesus used this story: “There was a rich man who had some land. His land grew a very good crop of food. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What will I do? I have no place to keep all my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘I know what I will do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger barns! I will put all my wheat and good things together in my new barns. 19 Then I can say to myself, I have many good things stored. I have saved enough for many years. Rest, eat, drink, and enjoy life!’

20 “But God said to that man, ‘Foolish man! Tonight you will die. So what about the things you prepared for yourself? Who will get those things now?’

21 “This is how it will be for anyone who saves things only for himself. To God that person is not rich.”
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
9,848
975
113
#25
Out of faith, hope, and charity, love in action, charity is the greatest.

Paul said without charity he is nothing, and the love of money is the root of all evil, for it neglects the poor and needy, and love is the fulfilling of the law, which if people love money they have erred from the faith.

James said without charity their faith is dead.

John said without charity the love of God does not dwell in them.

Love is the fulfilling of the law, which includes helping the poor and needy with their needs if possible.

The rich man asked Jesus what He must do to inherit eternal life, and Jesus said keep the 6 commandments that have to do with not offending people for that is love.

The rich man said he kept all those commandments from youth.

Then Jesus said he lacked one thing, and that is for him to sell all he has and give to the poor, which he lacked loving people in that area when he had the means to help them.

The early Church sold all they had that was not a necessity, and distributed the money to those that had need.

It is because it is all about love, and people that heap money to themselves, above their needs to enjoy their wants, do not love people like they should.

For love is the fulfilling of the law, and the rich fall short of that love.

And without love you are nothing, erred from the faith, your faith is dead, and the love of God does not dwell in you.

It does not matter how much money you make, as long as it is done by legal, moral ways, for that is not violating love if you only go by your needs, and help the poor and needy.

For it does not matter if you make 5 million dollars a year, or 50 thousand dollars a year, your lifestyle would be no different for you can only go by your needs, and to help the poor and needy.

Making more money only means more money for the poor and needy.

God only blesses us with our needs, not our wants, because it is all about loving people.

God said the last generation will devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men, and that is because technology caused money to flow like a raging river, and then they are scrambling to get as much of it as they can.

For the world is motivated by self exaltation, and money is one of the ways they exalt themselves above other people, and to also enjoy sin with the money.

God said that many will be lukewarm at this time, and say they are rich and increased with goods, and have need of nothing, but do not realize that they are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked.

Which we see many people that claim Christ that love money as they enjoy the world as the world enjoys it, and television evangelists that care about money being millionaires, as they try to convince the people they deserve it, and God is blessing them with it.

But the Bible says that the preacher in not to be in the ministry for the money.
The early church sold their belonging for the poor, it is because most of them are not rich, and their experience the strong present of the Holy Spirit. Apostle was work of love not greed.

Now some poor give to the pastor that are rich and greed and they think they give to the Lord.

I have a poor friend, she do not has a home and stay in his step son home. His husband give her a home, because he is old and when he die. His son may ask her to go.

She sold her house and give the money to her pastor, her pastor have a big house and base 50 Harly Davidson motorcycle.

Her pastor is multimillionaire.
 

seoulsearch

OutWrite Trouble
May 23, 2009
12,703
2,972
113
#26
What are you referring to when speaking of blindness?

My point was simply that some people, even those in the Bible, were/are financially blessed, and that it was God who chose to give them that blessing, as directly stated in the Bible.

What they do with the blessing, of course, is their own choice, whether for the Kingdom or not.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
4,650
3,900
113
#27
Perhaps I was taught incorrectly, but I was always instructed that the wealth of such men in the Bible was a direct result of the blessings of the Lord.

When I read your post, I was thinking of Isaac in particular:

1. Gen. 6:12-23 -- "The Lord blessed Isaac, and his wealth continued to grow until he became exceedingly wealthy, that even the Philistines envied him."

2. I was also thinking of the fact that Laban continuously tried to cheat Jacob, such as with the speckled and spotted livestock, but yet God blessed him and made sure the herds had exactly those offspring which Laban had proclaimed as Jacob's wages.

Whatever Laban tried to cheat Jacob out of, God simply gave him more, as Jacob tells Laban in Genesis 31:42 -- "If the God of my father, the God of Abraham and the Fear of Isaac had not been with me, you would surely have sent me away empty-handed."

3. God also told Solomon that he had not asked for riches, but that God would granted them to him along with the wisdom he asked for: 2 Chronicles 1:11 -- "And I will also give you wealth, possessions and honor, such as no king before you and none after you will have." Clearly, Solomon's riches came at least in part, directly from the Lord.

4. Abraham's servant Eliezer declared: "The Lord has greatly blessed my master, so that he has become rich..." (Gen. 24:35). "He has given him flocks and herds, gold and silver, servants, and maids.

5. God tells David in 2 Samuel 12:8 -- "I gave your master's household to you."

I could not find a specific passage about Joseph of Arimathea, but I do believe that "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows."

Of course, any gift can be used for the good or for the bad, or can be seen as good or bad in nature.

In Joseph's case, he chose to use his gifts to supply the tomb where Jesus was laid.

Whatever these men may have had, God clearly had a hand in blessing them with it.
I have been taught that OT physical and material blessings symbolize and foreshadow spiritual and everlasting blessings that are revealed in the NT. Those blessings were temporary, but ours are forever.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
33,735
11,461
113
66
Tennessee
#28
Luke 12:16-21 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
16 Then Jesus used this story: “There was a rich man who had some land. His land grew a very good crop of food. 17 He thought to himself, ‘What will I do? I have no place to keep all my crops.’

18 “Then he said, ‘I know what I will do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger barns! I will put all my wheat and good things together in my new barns. 19 Then I can say to myself, I have many good things stored. I have saved enough for many years. Rest, eat, drink, and enjoy life!’

20 “But God said to that man, ‘Foolish man! Tonight you will die. So what about the things you prepared for yourself? Who will get those things now?’

21 “This is how it will be for anyone who saves things only for himself. To God that person is not rich.”
I don't think you understand what exactly I was stating in my reply as I was saying that this member will have his riches in heaven. The verses you provided say nothing at all about treasure in heaven but only pertain to the pursuit of worldly gains.
 

Adelia

Junior Member
Apr 18, 2018
51
54
18
#29
Over the years I have observed that more Christians are obsessed with others money than people who have it. I see more coveting than legitimate statement. How many really know wealthy people? Of course I am talking financial stability. Why aren't people left with the blessing of wealth in terms of other things; Like the Love of God or eternal salvation? Your bank account is none of my business. My bank account is none of your business. My concern is being a good steward of what the Lord blesses me with and to be be His witness in feast or famine.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
9,910
3,606
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#30
I think financial wealth can end up being a curse as King solomon found out.
He had a huge palace and hundreds of wives but then he had to look after them all. And his wives turned his heart away from the Lord. If he just had ONE wife like normal people do, he probably wouldnt have that problem. instead he had about 600. Who is the covetous one? king solomon, he couldnt just stop at one.

We are already so blessed with salvation, so why are some people still obssesed with increased finanical blessings? paul was content either way, he could be wealthy or have nothing...he learned the secret of being content.

When you read Pauls letters. He was always thankful when the church was generous in giving out of their abundance to those brothers and sisters in need. And he never asked to be paid in kind, just food and clothing and lodgings. We can learn from his example and also James was very direct on the corruption that rich men showed and how skewed their priorities were, with their obsession with status.

In the world many people treat those unemployed with disdain but Ive found that those who do have jobs dont actually offer any to those that dont. They just tell them to go on the dole or go find one themselves. Its like telling someone whos shivering cold to be warm and you will pray for them but dont give them anything to warms themselves with!

This actually happened, I once graduated from a course that I thought ok now im trained I will be offered a job and I'm keen to start doing what I've trained in. But no, what the school did was go sorry, just look online for a job yourself we cant help you.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
5,912
706
113
36
Australia
#31
Over the years I have observed that more Christians are obsessed with others money than people who have it. I see more coveting than legitimate statement. How many really know wealthy people? Of course I am talking financial stability. Why aren't people left with the blessing of wealth in terms of other things; Like the Love of God or eternal salvation? Your bank account is none of my business. My bank account is none of your business. My concern is being a good steward of what the Lord blesses me with and to be be His witness in feast or famine.
Lol yep.. You don't have to have money to be a lover of money.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,989
9,677
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#32
Where does it say God made each of those named rich?

Let's look at Solomon.
Solomon said to God,
“You have dealt with my father David with great lovingkindness, and have made me king in his place.
Now, O LORD God, Your promise to my father David is fulfilled, for You have made me king over a people as numerous as the dust of the earth. Give me now wisdom and knowledge, that I may go out and come in before this people, for who can rule this great people of Yours?”
God said to Solomon,
“Because you had this in mind, and did not ask for riches, wealth or honor, or the life of those who hate you, nor have you even asked for long life, but you have asked for yourself wisdom and knowledge that you may rule My people over whom I have made you king, wisdom and knowledge have been granted to you. And I will give you riches and wealth and honor, such as none of the kings who were before you has possessed nor those who will come after you.
So Solomon went from the high place which was at Gibeon, from the tent of meeting, to Jerusalem, and he reigned over Israel.
(2 Chronicles 1:8-13)

God did indeed make Solomon rich.
this is also written in 1 Kings 3
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
29,989
9,677
113
#33
I think financial wealth can end up being a curse as King solomon found out.
He had a huge palace and hundreds of wives but then he had to look after them all. And his wives turned his heart away from the Lord. If he just had ONE wife like normal people do, he probably wouldnt have that problem. instead he had about 600. Who is the covetous one? king solomon, he couldnt just stop at one.
to be fair what you're describing is that his many wives got him in trouble, not his wealth..
.. tho, without great wealth, how you gonna keep so many wives?

i figure most of these were sort of political marriages. Solomon had peace throughout his reign, and fame, and it seems like other kingdoms would maybe send him daughters as wives to ally themselves with his kingdom. how many did he actually treat as wives in the way we think of a wife in these days and this culture?

i wonder, too, when i read what he said about it being '
better to live on a corner of a roof than in a broad house with a quarrelsome wife' if he had one wife in particular in mind, or was he like, 'good grief, those 400'
at any rate the lesson probably wasn't lost on him.
 

obedienttogod

Well-known member
Jan 3, 2019
1,012
342
83
#34
I absolutely see no reason why anyone of us cannot have more than just meeting our bills and more than just having enough to enjoy a few wants. But I do see having enough to do as I mentioned, and then not helping those who are in need, to be absolutely wrong and sinful.

I buy 2 powerball and mega every week. That is a whopping $8 that falls into my category of having enough to enjoy a few wants.

People have asked me what I would do if I won.

For one, I would build an auditorium stadium seating around 150,000 people. I would have as much Gospel activity as possible and let people in for free. Outside of having "live wire" people of God to come and share their testimonies and preach, I would pay groups like (Ricky Skaggs daughter Molly) to come and hold concerts so we can worship Yeshua and sound the Battle Cry!!

This song is a true uplifting Holy Ghost inspired BATTLE CRY!! It has a WAR beat to it and I have not stopped listening to if for 4 days straight :)

This is the kind of hillbilly swamp music my families church had growing up. This song brings me back home!!


 

Hungry

Senior Member
Nov 26, 2012
2,499
809
113
#35
There’s a study that concludes that the happiest people earn about $70,000 in America. It’s generally an amount that provides you with all of your needs but still keeps your wants in check. However I never trust statistics at face value. Some may conclude this is a number that one should strive for and then they can be happy. Also it could just be that the people who were already happy reached this plateau and realized they had enough so quit climbing.

Regardless, money is not damning in and of itself. It is a tool. Like a tool, in the hands of one who knows how to use it, it can be useful and benefit many. In the hands of an idiot, can hurt the idiot and those around him. In the hands of a tyrant, the tool can be used to build weapons and enslave masses. What is damning is why you want the money. What will you build with it? Passing on wealth that wasn’t earned is hazardous to future generations.

I’ve been fortunate to rub shoulders with doctors, lawyers, accountants, business owners, CEOs, tradesmen and poor folk alike. Travel sports bring the most unlikely people together. There is definitely differences in their personalities. As well, you can tell who struggled for their wealth and who had it handed to them. Those most content in their wealth are those who worked for it, no matter the amount. There is value attached to it. They traded their skills and time and imagination for a more liquid form to exchange for goods. Many of them are honest and helpful providing a wonderful service, as well employment for others.

Many of the people who walked with Christ were poor. There was great division between the rich and poor. The wealthy were born wealthy and poor born poor. It stayed that way for generations. Today we all have opportunity to change our circumstances. One shouldn’t use the excuse for the trappings of wealth as a cop out to be an underachiever. What ever you decide to do in life, bring value. If that generates physical wealth, enjoy it. If that translates to spiritual wealth, you will have longer to enjoy it.
 

Subhumanoidal

Well-known member
Sep 17, 2018
2,385
1,966
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#36
Well, many churches preach that Jesus was financially poor in the 4 Gospels, using that popular passage about foxes have holes...but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.

So after so many years of hearing that, many Christians naturally think that, to be like Jesus, to bear the cross, we should not pray for financial blessings. After all, even Jesus was poor. :)
That doesn't sound at all like the majority of Christians i've ever met in my nearly 30 years of being a Christian. Prosperity preachers are rich for a reason. Because so many gullible people send them money in hopes of getting rich themselves.
And even the ones i've known that didn't buy into that dribble (which is most since i never believed it myself) still never believed being poor had anything to do with following Jesus. In fact most wanted more money (not necessarily getting rich, but being more stable financially).
There is a segment that believes such things about needing to be poor, but to suggest it as such a broad statement doesn't line up with my 30 years of seeing otherwise.
More often than not i've seen that scripture taught as a reminder of what Christ's struggles were here on earth, which we may also have to contend with. It was typically seen as a way to ensure we focus on the spiritual, not the physical. Notice i did Not say to neglect the physical.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,355
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#37
Being rich is not the problem....loving money and trusting money over God is the problem....many rich people have been faithful tot he Lord and used their money to help and or support the people of God...with GOD all thing are possible....!
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,643
1,216
113
#38
That doesn't sound at all like the majority of Christians i've ever met in my nearly 30 years of being a Christian. Prosperity preachers are rich for a reason. Because so many gullible people send them money in hopes of getting rich themselves.
And even the ones i've known that didn't buy into that dribble (which is most since i never believed it myself) still never believed being poor had anything to do with following Jesus. In fact most wanted more money (not necessarily getting rich, but being more stable financially).
There is a segment that believes such things about needing to be poor, but to suggest it as such a broad statement doesn't line up with my 30 years of seeing otherwise.
More often than not i've seen that scripture taught as a reminder of what Christ's struggles were here on earth, which we may also have to contend with. It was typically seen as a way to ensure we focus on the spiritual, not the physical. Notice i did Not say to neglect the physical.
What about you? Do you think Jesus was materially poor, when he was preaching during the 4 Gospels?
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,728
113
Texas
#39
Funny thing is, The rich seem to steal more than the poor! (and they steal it FROM the poor.)
Comparing the worldly to the Godly is a fail. And no the rich don't steel more than the poor. The worldly steal stuff. As layed out as wisdom in Proverbs 30, the Godly seek to be neither rich nor poor, but to be content.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
1,610
360
83
#40
The early church sold their belonging for the poor, it is because most of them are not rich, and their experience the strong present of the Holy Spirit. Apostle was work of love not greed.

Now some poor give to the pastor that are rich and greed and they think they give to the Lord.

I have a poor friend, she do not has a home and stay in his step son home. His husband give her a home, because he is old and when he die. His son may ask her to go.

She sold her house and give the money to her pastor, her pastor have a big house and base 50 Harly Davidson motorcycle.

Her pastor is multimillionaire.
1. Whosoever then comes and teaches you all these things aforesaid, receive him.
2. But if the teacher himself be perverted and teach another doctrine to destroy these things, do not listen to him, but if his teaching be for the increase of righteousness and knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord.
3. And concerning the Apostles and Prophets, act thus according to the ordinance of the Gospel.
4. Let every Apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord,
5. But let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet.
6. And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night's lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.
7. Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, "for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven."
8. But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known.
9. And no prophet who orders a meal in a spirit shall eat of it: otherwise he is a false prophet.
10. And every prophet who teaches truth, if he do not what he teaches, is a false prophet.
11. But no prophet who has been tried and is genuine, though he enact a worldly mystery of the Church, if he teach not others to do what he does himself, shall be judged by you: for he has his judgment with God, for so also did the prophets of old.
12. But whosoever shall say in a spirit "Give me money, or something else," you shall not listen to him; but if he tell you to give on behalf of others in want, let none judge him.

1. "Watch" over your life "let your lamps" be not quenched "and your loins" be not ungirded, but be "ready," for ye know not "the hour in which our Lord cometh."
2. But be frequently gathered together seeking the things which are profitable for your souls, for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you except ye be found perfect at the last time;
3. For in the last days the false prophets and the corruptors shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall change to hate;
4. For as lawlessness increaseth they shall hate one another and persecute and betray, and then shall appear the deceiver of the world as a Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders and the earth shall be given over into his hands and he shall commit iniquities which have never been since the world began.
5. Then shall the creation of mankind come to the fiery trial and "many shall be offended" and be lost, but "they who endure" in their faith "shall be saved" by the curse itself.
6. And "then shall appear the signs" of the truth. First the sign spread out in Heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet, and thirdly the resurrection of the dead:
7. But not of all the dead, but as it was said, "The Lord shall come and all his saints with him."
8. Then shall the world "see the Lord coming on the clouds of Heaven."

http://www.thedidache.com/