The Rapture explained in two minutes

[MattTooFor]

Stay out of the woods. The woods are filled with wackos.

The great tribulation is pronounced upon Israel and the unsaved world. The great tribulation is not pronounced on the church. The church is not subject to judgment but the ungodly and unbelieving Israel.

Without a proper foundation you cannot build a correct doctrine. Sound doctrine eludes many because they cannot endure it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Answer this specific question: What perception did Peter, James and John have after hearing Jesus' words in the Olivet Discourse?

Jesus told them to look out for...NOT a "pre-70th Week" (i.e. "PreTrib") rapture...but rather to look for the Abomination of Desolation, followed by great tribulation, followed by the "gathering" of the believers,

So....what was their perception? Well...their perception was (LOL) to look out for the Abomination, followed by great tribulation, followed by the Gathering. If that was the perception of the Original Leaders of the Christian movement...are you saying they were wrong???

If that was Peter's perception...then it is MY perception and should be YOUR perception.

If you'd like to time-travel back to Peter's day and rebut Peter about his "erroneous" perception in which he believes he should do what Jesus told him to do...to keep a sharp look-out for the Abomination...please oh please let me go with you. I'd REALLY like to see you try to rebut Peter, James, John and Andrew. That would be a fun little event to observe:

Notuptome: Hey, Pete, Jimmy, Johnny...you guys hold to some false doctrines. There is no gathering AFTER the great tribulation. Haven't you guys read through the whole "Left Behind" phony novel series?

Peter: Left Behind? Nah, I'm more of a 'Bible guy' myself. So you say I err in accepting Jesus' words to me that we should expect to encounter the Abomination, followed by great tribulation? I'm pretty sure I should take Jesus' words over your words and these other guys you mention -- LaHaye, MacArthur, etc.

Notuptome: But...a belief in the Olivet Discourse is to believe in false doctrine.

Peter: Uh...what? Jesus taught me false doctrine? The Bible teaches false doctrine? I think you got mixed up somewhere. Have a nice trip back in your machine.

 

[MattTooFor]

It's amazing to me how far afield some people are dragging this thread -- LOL. The OP has a very simple question:

What was the perception of Peter, James and John when Jesus told them to look out for the Abomination of Desolation, an event which is DEEP inside the "70th Week" seven-year period. In fact, this event occurs at the mid-point.

If Jesus told them to look for this event and which is followed by "great tribulation", followed by the great and glorious "gathering"...then throughout their lives and throughout their earthly ministry...their perception would HAVE to have been (LOL) to look for the Abomination, followed by the Great Tribulation, followed by the "gathering".

Would you PreTribbers be willing to time-travel back to Peter's time...and REBUT Peter's belief? I'm sorry but...that would be a hilarious thing to watch.

 

[notuptome]

Answer this specific question: What perception did Peter, James and John have after hearing Jesus' words in the Olivet Discourse?

Jesus told them to look out for...NOT a "pre-70th Week" (i.e. "PreTrib") rapture...but rather to look for the Abomination of Desolation, followed by great tribulation, followed by the "gathering" of the believers,

So....what was their perception? Well...their perception was (LOL) to look out for the Abomination, followed by great tribulation, followed by the Gathering. If that was the perception of the Original Leaders of the Christian movement...are you saying they were wrong???

If that was Peter's perception...then it is MY perception and should be YOUR perception.

If you'd like to time-travel back to Peter's day and rebut Peter about his "erroneous" perception in which he believes he should do what Jesus told him to do...to keep a sharp look-out for the Abomination...please oh please let me go with you. I'd REALLY like to see you try to rebut Peter, James, John and Andrew. That would be a fun little event to observe:

Notuptome: Hey, Pete, Jimmy, Johnny...you guys hold to some false doctrines. There is no gathering AFTER the great tribulation. Haven't you guys read through the whole "Left Behind" phony novel series?

Peter: Left Behind? Nah, I'm more of a 'Bible guy' myself. So you say I err in accepting Jesus' words to me that we should expect to encounter the Abomination, followed by great tribulation? I'm pretty sure I should take Jesus' words over your words and these other guys you mention -- LaHaye, MacArthur, etc.

Notuptome: But...a belief in the Olivet Discourse is to believe in false doctrine.

Peter: Uh...what? Jesus taught me false doctrine? The Bible teaches false doctrine? I think you got mixed up somewhere. Have a nice trip back in your machine.

I understand that you have an attitude since your doctrine is running out of gas. The apostles were Jewish and knew much more than the gentiles. Jesus did not come to the gentiles but to the Jews. There is nothing prophetic in the end times for the gentiles.

The Holy Spirit does not witness with what you are endeavoring to teach. Who is going to be gathered after the tribulation? The Jews that endure to the end will be saved because they will look upon Him whom they have pierced. The 144,000 witnesses will witness to Israel that Jesus is their Messiah. The gentiles will come against Israel to destroy them from off the face of the earth so it isn't likely they will want to see Jesus.

Fight against it all you want it won't change what God intends to do in the matter. Just be careful of what you hope for.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GaryA]

It's amazing to me how far afield some people are dragging this thread -- LOL. The OP has a very simple question:

What was the perception of Peter, James and John when Jesus told them to look out for the Abomination of Desolation, an event which is DEEP inside the "70th Week" seven-year period. In fact, this event occurs at the mid-point.

If Jesus told them to look for this event and which is followed by "great tribulation", followed by the great and glorious "gathering"...then throughout their lives and throughout their earthly ministry...their perception would HAVE to have been (LOL) to look for the Abomination, followed by the Great Tribulation, followed by the "gathering".

Would you PreTribbers be willing to time-travel back to Peter's time...and REBUT Peter's belief? I'm sorry but...that would be a hilarious thing to watch.

I believe that the AoD is past history. And, when it occurred, the 70th week of Daniel was already past history.

Nonetheless, I do agree with your assessment regarding the order of events as Jesus told it in the Olivet Discourse -- AoD, then GT, then signs in the sun, moon, etc. - followed by His return and a "gathering" of the saints.

 

[Depleted]

OK. And this amazing, astounding, ultra-spectacular rapture ("gathering") with trumpets and shouts and huge unprecedented cosmic signs (the sun and moon and stars, etc.) and "great glory" and which causes all the wicked of the world to mourn and say "this is the great day of God's wrath"...

...when did that happen?

"Causes all the wicked in the world to mourn?" Honestly? The history isn't in on what the wicked did. History is written by the victors, so they thought it was "triumph!" I would imagine it was quite a bit like Germany in the 1930's and 40's though -- quite a bit of shame on the part of the people for what they saw happening and they kept quite.

Then again, we know the wicked won't all be coming to God, right? (Maybe you don't, because you're stuck on this hobby of yours.)

BUT the sun moon and stars? As in "blotted out?" Happened.

Jerusalem! They utterly and completely destroyed everyone in Jerusalem and as far as humanly possible on the structures. First they blockaded it. No food could get in and no people could get out. And they waited. And waited. The food was eaten. After the food, the rats and roaches were eaten. And then they waited a bit longer and went in to take it down.

A mother was roasting her baby to eat. They killed her and everyone else. They stacked the bodies in the temple's outer courts. Monstrous location, and yet the bodies were stacked four feet high. The gutters in the streets were ankle deep in blood. "Rivers of blood." Then they set them and it on fire. The entire city of Jerusalem was on fire. The smoke rose and blotted out the sun, moon and stars until the smoke abated. Been decades since I read this, so I don't remember how long, but no one saw the sky until there was no more fuel for the fire.

It happened. Past tense. It happened. A shame no one is taught the evilness of Man anymore. Rome tried to wipe out Christians and Jews. Thus another "great disbursement." And since Rome chased down Christians to kill them all for 200ish years, truly a Great Tribulation! Yet this travesty is covered up by lesser travesties like Stalin and Hitler.

At one point in time, they gathered the Christians to take them back to Rome. To light the way of the leader, they impaled them at regular intervals, and lit them on fire as street lamps. They'd grab another one, set him or her on fire and drag the body behind a chariot as a "headlight" for the leader's chariot. And when that body went out, they grabbed the next Christian and do it again from Jerusalem to Rome!

And what was left when they got to Rome was put into the Coliseum as sport. 30 days. (Possibly 60. Like I said it's been a long time since I read this.) 24/7 any Roman could go down to the Coliseum to watch lions eating Christians. The only problem was they had more Christians than lions, and lions don't eat when they're full. So a bunch of Christians were put in at a time, lions would eat a some, and then lie down to rest. The rest of the Christians were stuck there waiting for the lions to get hungry again. Parents comforting their children with full understanding the entire family would, eventually, be eaten by the lions. Some were stuck waiting for up to two weeks.

100,000 Christians per day for 30 days! And then they went on to try and wipe out the rest. Can you really think of anything that would be greater than that Great Tribulation?

Why did Jesus, and then John, warn the people? Because God didn't want people to lose heart when they were facing this. THEY were facing this. Why tell what someone thousands of years late MIGHT face when it was already happening by the time John got his vision? It DID happen in their lifetime. It did happen. It continued to happen for 200 years!

What? You might get someone laughing at you for being a Christian? Sure beats being lit on fire, speared and then burned in the temple, hung on a cross, beheaded, and all the other disgusting ways the Romans really did kill Christians. If you think the left scoffing at Christians is tough, then you simply don't know what tough is! And, judging by how much time you pour into this hobby of yours (because again, it really has nothing to do with God, it has to do with your comfort), you really don't have any idea how tough it can get.

 

[Willie-T]

In case Lynn's narrative sounds too strong, give this a read... The Destruction of Jerusalem By: George Peter Holford Written in 1805

 

[Depleted]

In case Lynn's narrative sounds too strong, give this a read... The Destruction of Jerusalem By: George Peter Holford Written in 1805

Thanks. It wasn't that book I read it in, but it has been so long ago, I don't remember where I read it. And for some reason, "I can't remember where this much later" never works when asked for the proof.

 

[GaryA]

And since Rome chased down Christians to kill them all for 200ish years, truly a Great Tribulation!

And then, after / when "Rome" changed form, the Holy Roman Empire continued the Christian-killing for several more centuries...

 

[GaryA]

BUT the sun moon and stars? As in "blotted out?" Happened.

Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Did this "blotting out" of the sun and moon occur immediately AFTER the 200 year period you referred to as the Great Tribulation?

Did the stars fall from heaven? Were the powers of the heavens shaken?

Did Jesus then appear afterward, followed by a "gathering" of the saints?

Has ALL of what is described in the above verses come to pass?



The sun and moon may have been "blotted out" during the burning of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.; however, that is not what these verses are referring to...

 

[Locutus]

Did the stars fall from heaven? Were the powers of the heavens shaken?

You need to realise this is figurative language typical of apocalyptic imagery of the prophets:


Isa 30:25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.

Isa 30:26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

Isa 30:27 Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:

"and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold" - better hope they had Hiroshima strength sunscreen.......

 

[dcontroversal]

You see,,,,, DC that is where you are wrong.....I am looking for the rapture yet if it does not come by the time that I die, I will meet in Jesus in Heaven. If it does come before I die, I will meet Jesus in the Clouds. Either Way, I win.

Now what is your plan B when the Rapture does happen. Have you taken into account that at the time of the Rapture, Millions are also going to die and will not get another chance change their minds. SAD

It will happen...after the great tribulation and before the wrath of God and the dividing line is when the man of sin appears on the scene.....the delusion God sends and all who refuse to receive the love of the truth will be judged (damned).......and every point I made stands...so in reality what is your point, because you made none!

 

[GaryA]

Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Is the sun being darkened literal, or just "figurative language"...?
Is the moon not giving her light literal, or just "figurative language"...?
Is the stars falling from heaven literal, or just "figurative language"...?
Is the shaking of the powers of heaven literal, or just "figurative language"...?

Are all four things mentioned literal, or just "figurative language"...?

Why would anyone ever think that all four are not either all literal or all "figurative language"...?

Isn't anything else a bit of picking-and-choosing / cherry-picking?

The 'grammar of the language' says that the literality of all four is the same.

If you accept that the first two are literal ( that they "happened" in some form of physical manifestation ), then you must accept the other two as being literal as well. Otherwise, you are just picking-and-choosing / cherry-picking...


Matthew 24:

[SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


Is the sign of the Son of man in heaven literal, or just "figurative language"...?
Will the tribes of the earth mourn, or is this just "figurative language"...?
Is the Son of man coming in the clouds literal, or just "figurative language"...?
Will He come with power and great glory, or is this just "figurative language"...?


Matthew 24:

[SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


What about the details of this verse -- literal, or just "figurative language"...?


I say -- every detail in these verses is quite literal!

I am not saying that there is no symbolism in the wording ( i.e. - the four winds ). However, as 'literal' things that actually "happen", I believe that they are real in that 'event' sense.

 

[popeye]

Uh no -- there has yet to be this spectacular supernatural "gathering"...where the angels gather the elect from the four winds and from one end of the heavens to the other...to say the very least. Buh-bye (please?).

From heaven.

Not earth.

You left that part out.

 

[popeye]

Matthew 24:

[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Did this "blotting out" of the sun and moon occur immediately AFTER the 200 year period you referred to as the Great Tribulation?

Did the stars fall from heaven? Were the powers of the heavens shaken?

Did Jesus then appear afterward, followed by a "gathering" of the saints?

Has ALL of what is described in the above verses come to pass?



The sun and moon may have been "blotted out" during the burning of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.; however, that is not what these verses are referring to...

I would love to hear the explanation of the flying scorpions,the mark of the AC,ETC.

 

[popeye]

It's amazing to me how far afield some people are dragging this thread -- LOL. The OP has a very simple question:

What was the perception of Peter, James and John when Jesus told them to look out for the Abomination of Desolation, an event which is DEEP inside the "70th Week" seven-year period. In fact, this event occurs at the mid-point.

If Jesus told them to look for this event and which is followed by "great tribulation", followed by the great and glorious "gathering"...then throughout their lives and throughout their earthly ministry...their perception would HAVE to have been (LOL) to look for the Abomination, followed by the Great Tribulation, followed by the "gathering".

Would you PreTribbers be willing to time-travel back to Peter's time...and REBUT Peter's belief? I'm sorry but...that would be a hilarious thing to watch.

Lets try one more time.

Do the dead in Christ per 1 thes 4 rise and meet Jesus in the air immediately before the believers rise as in rapture?

Do the dead resurrect before the living are gathered?

 

[GaryA]

You see,,,,, DC that is where you are wrong.....I am looking for the rapture yet if it does not come by the time that I die, I will meet in Jesus in Heaven. If it does come before I die, I will meet Jesus in the Clouds. Either Way, I win.

What if the rapture does not come by the time that you die, but you find yourself faced with worship-the-beast-or-be-beheaded?

Now what is your plan B when the Rapture does happen. Have you taken into account that at the time of the Rapture, Millions are also going to die and will not get another chance change their minds. SAD

What is your plan B when the rapture does not happen?

What do you mean by "millions are also going to die" that is closely associated with the rapture? Other than those-who-are-alive-and-remain receiving their immortal bodies before meeting the Lord in the air, who is supposed to 'die' at the time of the rapture?

How silly is it to ask such a question?!? If a pre-trib rapture were to actually happen, do you really actually believe that the Lord would leave behind anyone who was a true believer yet did not believe the Bible teached a pre-trib rapture? What about someone who was saved but never learned about any kind of rapture? The idea that "you have to believe in pre-trib rapture to be raptured" is utterly ridiculous!

And, for people who actually think like that --- that shows just how much 'pre-trib' has taken over their entire theology...

 

[JesusRules1]

The resurrection of the saints is all the saints who are left on earth at the end of the great tribulation,for many will perish during the great tribulation,which is for three and one half years,which the Bible says the saints will be given in to the beast's hand for three and one half years,and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people,then the resurrection will happen.

Concerning Matthew 24 which some people try to put in the first century,it is stating the end time which is now,for the saints will be hated of all nations,the Gospel will be preached in to all the world,the saints will be able to know of things happening on different parts of the world,which can only happen if they can view the world as today,there will be great spiritual deception,which would not be to the extreme back then as today,and in Zechariah 12,the whole earth shall be gathered together against Israel,and in 14,God will gather the whole world against Jerusalem to battle,and then come back with all the saints,which went up and then the wrath of God was poured upon the heathen,and came back with the saints to save Israel,and punish the whole earth for their sins and iniquities against Him(Isaiah 13),in which the LORD shall be king over all the earth,and in that day there shall be one LORD,and His name one,and the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD,when the saints take possession of the kingdom on earth.

The beast has power over all kindreds,nations,and tongues,the whole earth,and the people who followed the beast kingdom make war against the saints for three and one half years,and at the end of that time all that are left of the saints get resurrected,and then the wrath of God gets poured upon the world,leading up to the battle of Armageddon,which is part of the wrath of God,and God comes back with all the saints,for there is none left on earth,and fights the world and puts them down,and saves Israel.

The purpose of the beast kingdom is to end this sin business on earth,so God is allowing all people that do not love Him to follow it,so He can put them down,and th th th that's all folks.

God did not end the sin business back in the first century,so it is something future,the beast kingdom.

 

[GaryA]

Lets try one more time.

Do the dead in Christ per 1 thes 4 rise and meet Jesus in the air immediately before the believers rise as in rapture?

Do the dead resurrect before the living are gathered?

The way I have always interpreted it:

1) The dead-in-Christ are raised back to life.
2) All of the saved ( the 'previously-dead' and the 'still-remaining' ) are "changed" ( given their immortal bodies ) together.
3) All are "caught up" together in the clouds.

Otherwise:

1) The dead-in-Christ are raised back to life and are "changed" at the same time.
2) The still-remaining receive their immortal bodies.
3) All are "caught up" together.

 

[GaryA]

Concerning Matthew 24 which some people try to put in the first century,...

Certainly, some people do; however, I believe the span of time that Matthew 24 "covers" is ~2000 years. Some of it is more specifically about the "early" part of that period of time, and some of it is more specifically about the "later" part of that period of time -- with general reference that is "all-throughout" that period of time ( or, 'sections' of it ). If anyone is truly interested - for the sake of understanding - I could try to explain this in a little more detail. But, the point is - the Olivet Discourse is actually describing "human history" from the First Coming of Christ until the Second Coming of Christ.

Part of it is in the first century - just, not all of it...

 

[Bladerunner]

Okay. This is what I ask. Skip all the verses you've been taught prove the rapture and go straight to the source. Do a word study on the word "caught up" (rapturo in Latin, so the word is the same.)
****************************
Strong's Hebrew: 5595. סָפָה (saphah) -- to sweep or snatch ...
... 1 Chronicles 21:12 read נוּסְךָ (as "" 2 Samuel 24:13, see נוּס).
2 be caught up, captured, Isaiah 13:15 ("" נִמְצָא). ...

trong's Greek: 726. ἁρπάζω (harpazó) -- to seize, catch ...
... 2 Corinthians 12:2 V-APP-AMS GRK: θεὸς οἶδεν ἁρπαγέντα τὸν τοιοῦτον
NAS: such a man was caught up to the third KJV: such an ...

In your Latin which the RCC took up was only used by them even today. Rapio---Rapture is a word meaning taken away quickly, In the KJV it is simply "shall be caught up together".

Of course the Greek word for the harpazo' means approximately the same thing.

Instead of a word search I suggest you use it as it was written. Lets just simply take a part of (1 Thess 4:17) to look at. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together

Now keep in mind that the Holy Spirit is Giving Paul his words. If you do not believe that then indeed read no further.

Then= "at that time",
we [/COLOR]= One or more people (together),
WHich are alive. = Have not Died
Remain= Continue to Exist
shall be= To be, Become
caught up= and here is the RUB

The word Caught-up in English has many different defs. depending upon how you are using the adj. However, in Hebrew, סָפָה (saphah),means to sweep or snatch...
There FOUR (4) times this phrase is used in the Bible and all four had the same Biblical meaning. [The KJV translates Strong's G726 in the following manner: catch up (4x), take by force (3x), catch away (2x), pluck (2x), catch (1x), pull (1x).]

together= "At the same time"

Ok this concludes our word search. Because the next phrase is "IN THE CLOUDS" which does not "MEAN ON EARTH".

********************************

And then tell me, in context, why those words were put in that spot. i.e. why those words were used, not "how I can make the use fit into my theory."

Why the context statement.... it was and is GOD's PLAN.. They are HIS words so I will no second guess him.

I really did used to believe in the rapture. And then two things changed my mind:
1. The tracts (now more likely websites online, but they were tracts when we were young) changed. Back when we were young Gog and Mogog were big. Somehow they went from The Chinese were going to attack the US (Vietnam was still happening) to the USSR was going to. The Antichrist changed up to three times a year. Sometimes the Beast was the Antichrist, sometimes not, but that one kept changing too. These have been changing from before my time, and they're still changing.

I agree but that is because the Bible was so designed as to continue giving out its secrets as Man Knowledge increased. Today, the Computer lets us search, etc. the Bible in ways unheard of in 1978. Prior to the 1600s , the RCC was the Main church and it killed people who were brave enough to read the Bible. Only the Pope would interpret it. In the 1700s, Lutherine and Calvinist protestants appeared but they both came from the RCC.

And then there is ye old pre vs. post debate. If it is clear in the Bible, then why haven't everyone gotten on board on the same side? Did half the believers become nonbelievers because they're on the wrong side? And that's a trick question, because frankly if the right belief in rapture saves us, then there is at least two ways to be saved -- Christ or correct eschatology.

There are believers like yourself who believe in Jesus Christ but do not believe in his WORD as it is written. To deny prophecies in Revelation, well one needs to simply throw out the Bible and just write your own. To not believe and support Israel is to Curse yourself as spoken in Genesis 12:3.... I know the OT is outdated...NO, it is an integral part of the whole. Revelation actually refers to the OT some 800 times.

The Rapture does not SAVE US to Eternity. ONLY Belief in Jesus Christ can do that...The Rapture only removes us from the Wrath that is to comein the time after.



2. So, I studied it. First by doing that word study. (After doing that alone, I was stricken by how Paul was raptured and then dumped back on earth. Seems like a mean trick.)

Paul was RAPTURED???????? That is news to me..... WOW,,,,I misssed that one..lol


Then I studied the history. (The history matches the Bible. Rapture is but a theory.) What kind of History..... Did you go back to the History of the BCs. Or maybe the History of the AD, what about the History of the RCC. ..I could go on and on and on. You are right, the History and the Bible prove each other. Including Daniel's 9:24-27prophecy. That was history as well.


And then I studied Revelation through a classic study aid -- More Than Conquerors.

That too is a new one,,,WIll have to take a look at it......


So, if you want to prove it to me, do the word study and then the history, and then disprove Hendriksen.

I just did because:Hendriksen's work has been described as "a classic representation of replacement theology"

At least do the word study without preconceived notions. There is a caught-up, but nothing like Rapture theorists teach -- any of them.

Well, Really I should just simply cancel this response but hopefully there is someone out there that might get use of it.

Have a Nice Day,,,Depleted Hope you find what you are searching for.

Blade