The Rapture of the Church is after the Tribulation

[tourist]

I'm just an old man banging away on the keyboard. I don't actually fit into any of the camps anymore and lost the urge to debate one of them. I look at it as we are all Christian who confess Jesus Christ and so together we could understand a whole lot more but we argue instead. To avoid being disappointed in me though you shoud look real close into what I argue for or against. Thank you for your kind words.

I always enjoy your down to earth sensible posts. Very refreshing.

 

[Endoscopy]

ROFL
Explain to me which one of the following is the one and only correct view of eschatology if any??

Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

 

[TabinRivCA]

Literal stars didn’t fall from heaven but the things that stars represent did fall from heaven.

My q is that Mt 24;21 says there will b gt such as the world has never seen or shall see again. Also 2Thes 2 about the lawless one who is to b revealed w/all signs and wonders and 'he' who is holding him back til 'he' is taken out of the way. Want a good vid of the trib positions....if so watch watch 'Rapture Timing Debate' pt 1-2 w/Hal Lindsey et al. Brilliant synopsis at the end by Paul & Jan Crouch.

 

[Locutus]

ROFL
Explain to me which one of the following is the one and only correct view of eschatology if any??

Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

None of the above

 

[Locutus]

My q is that Mt 24;21 says there will b gt such as the world has never seen or shall see again. Also 2Thes 2 about the lawless one who is to b revealed w/all signs and wonders and 'he' who is holding him back til 'he' is taken out of the way. Want a good vid of the trib positions....if so watch watch 'Rapture Timing Debate' pt 1-2 w/Hal Lindsey et al. Brilliant synopsis at the end by Paul & Jan Crouch.

Hal Lindsey - no wonder yer confused.

 

[KJV1611]

ROFL
Explain to me which one of the following is the one and only correct view of eschatology if any??

Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

Sealed until the end time of what?

The last days in the book of Hebrews certainly wasn’t talking about the last days of the earth, it was talking about the last days of Israel.

I don’t think Daniel nor Revelation are sealed books.

Heb 1:2 (KJV) Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[KJV1611]

Common sense and history show that the widely held view of anything in scripture is wrong.

 

[Locutus]

Common sense and history show that the widely held view of anything in scripture is wrong.

The church generally was amillennial until the 1800's when the JW's, SDA and Darby popped up out of no where.

 

[KJV1611]

My q is that Mt 24;21 says there will b gt such as the world has never seen or shall see again. Also 2Thes 2 about the lawless one who is to b revealed w/all signs and wonders and 'he' who is holding him back til 'he' is taken out of the way. Want a good vid of the trib positions....if so watch watch 'Rapture Timing Debate' pt 1-2 w/Hal Lindsey et al. Brilliant synopsis at the end by Paul & Jan Crouch.

The so called great tribulation happened many years ago and is not related to the rapture.

 

[TabinRivCA]

ROFL
Explain to me which one of the following is the one and only correct view of eschatology if any??

Here are 4 different links to the 4 theological Biblical views of eschatology.

This is because Daniel and Revelation are written in symbolic language. Daniel plainly states it is closed until the end times. Revelation is written the same way so it too is closed.

https://www.exploregod.com/biblical-prophecy-four-views-of-the-end-times

https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm

http://www.christianciv.com/eschatology_bs_Sect1.htm

http://executableoutlines.com/end/end_01.htm

If you'd like a classic debate on YT w/Hal Lindsey check out 'Rapture Timing Debate' pt 1-2. The

Hal Lindsey - no wonder yer confused.

Paul and Jan Crouch were not confused and stated at the end the worse thing that could happen is to let satan cause a riff over this issue. Btw all 3 positions were elaborately made with no winner declared, and yet they departed in peace.

 

[TabinRivCA]

The so called great tribulation happened many years ago and is not related to the rapture.

Agree to disagree.

 

[KJV1611]

Jacob had his trouble when Christ came the first time. Assuming that there are two “times of Jacobs trouble”, what is the purpose of the future one?

 

[Epiales]

Theologians and scholars have tried to figure this out for how many years now?

I just know IF and WHEN it happens. I'm going! YAY YESHUA!!!

In the meantime, I will learn all I can about the Word of God and the end times.

 

[KJV1611]

Theologians and scholars have tried to figure this out for how many years now?

I just know IF and WHEN it happens. I'm going! YAY YESHUA!!!

In the meantime, I will learn all I can about the Word of God and the end times.

It’s a very interesting topic for sure.

 

[Epiales]

It’s a very interesting topic for sure.

Yup yup yup, and why I just wait for it LOL! I've been all 3 at one time or another. I realized that i don't have a clue, and probably nobody else does either. Scriptures can point to all three, so I gave up trying to figure it out for now lol!

 

[iamsoandso]

The church generally was amillennial until the 1800's when the JW's, SDA and Darby popped up out of no where.

The current Jewish year is 5779. In many of the early Apostolic and Church fathers letters they speak of 6000 years as day 1,2,3,4,5 6 and then 7 is the Sabbath/mill. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennial_Day_Theory

That manner of thinking is why I agree that Matt.24:3 is "age/aeon" and not world and see Matt.24:34 as "genos,by implication,an age"...

This is 2018 and we don't think like that anymore I know,but they as Jews saw it as Thursday(ending) Friday(beginning) and that six days they would labor(6000 years) and on the 7th rest,mill/Sabbath.

After Jesus spoke at the Mount of Olives is when Judas Iscariot betrays him. Judas heard him say the temple would be destroyed and it did not match what he believed(Jewish thinking) and after they ask him Matt.24:3 he no longer believed Jesus was Christ,Satan entered him and he betrayed Christ.

 

[Absolutely]

lol, some have studied this 20 years,some 3 or 4 times that long. You cant preach to your own feet because you might tell them tomorrow their going to go here and find that tomorrow they went somewhere else. Some babies are being born today and some are falling asleep.

It's very difficult to read someones post and see what they fully mean(or meant). At times I notice some threads descend into nothing more than chaos over someone posting something and another misunderstanding their intention. We toss that off as a simple misunderstanding and sometimes the two resolve the difference and sometimes not.

It's the same thing though in reading the Scriptures one reads a scripture and they think it means this and another reads the same Scripture and thinks it means something else and so they argue about it. The quest is then to read it and come to what the one who wrote it meant.

I'll give an example Matthew 24:3,,, everyone reads it and sees "sign of thy coming" and the first thing that hits their mind is "sign of thy 2nd coming" why I don't know but it don't matter I notice if their post trib,pre trib. preteist, futureist Amill ect. they all see "sign of thy 2nd coming"...

I never saw that at all and why is that in all four Gospels Jesus tells them he's going to be betrayed and die but they all argue with him about it and the scripture says they didn't understand. After Jesus is crucified they think he is a spirit when he appeared to them and the women go to his grave as if he died just the same as everyone else in the past and think the gardener moved his body.

I've scratched my head and thought it was just me for a long time and wondered why I didn't see the same thing you all see about it. I felt ashamed that I couldn't see them asking about the second coming like all of you. Years ago I took the Gospels and divided them at Matt.24,Mark 13 and Luke 21 and examined if they understood to ask him about his 2nd coming at that point and then examined how they reacted after his death.

Thomas said he wouldn't believe it was Jesus unless he put his fingers in the nail holes and the spear hole. Cleopas said outright "but we trusted it HAD been he which should have redeemed Israel"(Luke 24:21) and Peter was going to go fishing. But none of them were reacting to Jesus being dead as if they understood he was about to return from the grave.

So in Matthew 24:3(and parallels) they ask him something and he knew what they ask and answered it. In it if they ask him what was the sign of his coming and meant the way all Jews thought like then they were asking when he was coming(1st and only) to set up and restore the kingdom to Israel and sit on the throne as King. If so the answer that Jesus gave is that. Now his answer could include things about his 2nd coming even though they didn't understand that at that time. lol, But it's kind like a hologram tilt it this way and it's this and the other and it's that.

I chunk bits of this out at times but in all truth I'm a big coward. I knew I saw this different from you all but was always afraid of ridicule and spent a whole long part of my life trying to hide what I saw. I would be saying something that 99 percent of Christianity says something different about so like I said i was always afraid and thought it was me seeing it wrong and tried to force myself to see the same as you all. I think I'm wrong for doing that.

You are an asset to the board big time.
I sense a certain goodness about you.

And enjoy your depth.!!!

 

[Absolutely]

I notice when I work in my garden that it all belongs to me. I can row up rows wheresoever I chose and plant anything I like. If I chose I can cut down the weeds or I can let them grow. If I see a tomato growing to close to the ground and bugs might get to it I can pull it and let it ripen in the window seal. A man is just like it I think planted in Gods garden and he pulls up the weeds as he chooses and plants what he wants to grow and pulls the tomatoes he sees to ripen in his window and leaves the other to ripen on the vine.

When i read your posts,it reminds me of that series " kung fu" like you are wise and only give us little glimpses of your wisdom.
Whats weird is reading this post i could even hear the music from the series theme song lol.

Maybe you look like david caridane.
Lol

 

[Locutus]

The current Jewish year is 5779. In many of the early Apostolic and Church fathers letters they speak of 6000 years as day 1,2,3,4,5 6 and then 7 is the Sabbath/mill. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennial_Day_Theory

Ya - I'm not in that camp - I'm in a canoe paddling against a futurist current of obfuscation

That manner of thinking is why I agree that Matt.24:3 is "age/aeon" and not world and see Matt.24:34 as "genos,by implication,an age"...

This is 2018 and we don't think like that anymore I know,but they as Jews saw it as Thursday(ending) Friday(beginning) and that six days they would labor(6000 years) and on the 7th rest,mill/Sabbath.

After Jesus spoke at the Mount of Olives is when Judas Iscariot betrays him. Judas heard him say the temple would be destroyed and it did not match what he believed(Jewish thinking) and after they ask him Matt.24:3 he no longer believed Jesus was Christ,Satan entered him and he betrayed Christ.

So when do you think the end of the age (of Matt 24:3) came?

 

[iamsoandso]

You are an asset to the board big time.
I sense a certain goodness about you.

And enjoy your depth.!!!

thank you,

Irenaeus(140-202ad approx) explains this in AH book 5 chapter 28 paragraph 3 http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103528.htm I am not Catholic but use there source(easier to search) but if its uncomfortable here is a different source http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book5.html