The Rapture of the church, REAL or NOT REAL?

[Psalm1]

I remember the scriptures speaking highly of the Bereans and in churches, if you were a knowledgable person of the bible they would often say, "You are a good Berean."

Yes thank you.
I recieve that compliment regularly.
I pretty much live in God's Word.
I have the entire Bible on DVD.
It plays non stop .
At the end of Revelation it automatically goes to Genesis.
Never stops and fills my home with the fragrance of God's word.
Even I'm my sleep ot plays and I regularly have dreams alongside what is playing and entering my spirit

It is like a person is sitting in my house reading the Bible day and night for free.

I am definately a berean, pouring into the word as the Word pours into me.
Thanks for the compliment

BTW, It takes 3 days for the bible to complete reading with no breaks.

 

[Psalm1]

Yes, I understand how hard-hearted and hard-headed my fellow Israeli's can be within the Orthodox community. Please keep in mind that they are "blinded in part," not entirely, otherwise I would never have come over onto the side of Messianic Judaism...although I'm not hardline in that realm compared to many of my fellow Messianic Jews who still believe in the requirement for adhering to the Mosaic Law. I am not of that stripe.

What you encountered is the stiff-necked nature of Orthodoxy, which is near impossible to sway, just like most Muslims. Barring a visitation within dreams and/or in visions, Orthodox Jews and Muslims are very difficult to convert over to the side of Christ Jesus. Messiah is a Jewish designation. I do not see Jesus from that perspective. Son of man is also a Jewish-centric label that Gentile professors of Christ have illegitimately adopted. Messiah and son of man are terms that have everything to do with our roots and our alignment with Yahshuah as fellow Jews in relation to His earthly ministry. Paul never referred to Christ as Messiah to the Gentiles to whom he was sent, but I fully reside under his Gospel of Grace rather than the Kingdom Gospel. I am saved through the Gospel of Grace, not the Kingdom Gospel since the latter has passed away with the fall of Israel.

Hope that helps you with your understanding about my Orthodox brethren.

MM

MM

..which is the ONLY "2gospel" dynamic from heaven, or found in the Bible.
1) the gospel preached to the Jew is: "Messiah has come, the one we await has already come. And He died for your sins"
We give them Jesus.
2) to the Gentile we give them Jesus. They know nothing of Messiah.
We take them to the second Adam after they see their dilemma of "Holy God vs sinful man dilemma Via the dilemma in the first Adam"

To both we give them Jesus as ALL THE APOSTLES AND JESUS HIMSELF DID.

 

[Musicmaster]

Your warning reminds me of a rather comical thing that happened. I was at church in Wasilla, Alaska in the fellowship hall. It was after church and people had prepared food for all of us to enjoy and have fellowship after church.
As a backdrop to understanding why this is kind of funny, My family, I was raised in the Midwest around a LOT of hog farms. I knew absolutely NOTHING of any Jewish food laws. My family was all military vets. My father was a Navy Seal back during the 1960s and he was trained in part by Israeli Musod as well as ATF, FBI, and so on. One of my uncles was in Marine Recon in Vietnam while his brother my other uncle was U.S. Army Special Forces in Vietnam. So we had discipline but in a VERY different way than in church. I was raised in a military home. A family of warriors we were. So my spiritual experience really did not begin for me until later on in life. On my mother's side were all ENGLISH. On my father's side was Scottish, English and European Jewish. Yes I have some Jewish blood. German Jew or I think it is called Ashkenazi Jew. OK and so with that in mind, it sets the stage up for what happens at church. My friends and I would talk about our bloodlines and where each family stems from. It was my thing back then and is still a deep curiosity of mine. My friend is an EXPERT on the Hebrew language and is in fact JEWISH. OK so, he had gone around and dished out himself a plate of food. He say down as I went and started placing food items on my plate according to what I like. There was all different types of meats and cheeses as well as summer sausage. I was raised on summer sausage. So I placed a bit of it on my plate to enjoy. I walk over and sit down among my friend's family. As I am eating he notices the sausage and quietly informs me; "You should not be eating that.". I gave him a rather strange look as it hit me by surprise. "Excuse me, come again?". He smiled and said; "You should not be having that summer sausage, it's made out of pork.". I was confused so I asked him; "Why is this bad?". He smiled again and said; "You are a jew with Jew blood in you. Don't eat pork.". I scratched my head and then remembered what the Apostle Paul said in that if it causes a man to sin for you to eat meat then do not eat meat.". SO, I did not further partake of the summer sausage I like in order to honor and save the relationship. I looked over at him and said; "Oh I am sorry. I was never raised that way.". He said to me, "That's ok. I understand you are a Jew who does not know how to be Jewish.". I shrugged my shoulders and said; "Um I guess.". He told me that in Israel they would feel sorry for me because I genuinely do not know the ways." Of course being raised in a military family who served our country, we don't like sympathy too much. It's not offensive but just not something we seek after nor do we go around feeling sorry for ourselves as soldiers, sailers, and airmen. Me, I just thought that was kind of funny. All I ever knew about being a Jew was asking my father a few times if we were Scottish or English or what were we? His answer, "We are German Jews." and that was pretty much it entirely. No elaboration, no nothing. That's litterally all I knew except our German Jewish surname, "STARK", that means "Strong and Sturdy!" "men of strength and Gaul!". Which brought me relief because I feared it might be a Nazi name which I hate the Nazis!

I too am what some call a "mongrel mix." I hail from Irish Jews.

What your other uncle didn't understand, as you know, is that it is he and most of those Jews in Israel who don't understand the errors within their own adopted belief system. In Christ we have the expansiveness of not only the fulfillments through the Jewish Messiah, but also this dispensation of grace that Peter stated was too difficult for him to understand within the content of Paul's preaching. Being prone to error, this comes as no surprise to me, especially when Paul had to get in Peter's face about his hypocrisy. Peter should never have sat at table with the Gentiles either in the presence of the Jerusalem council members or not...thus at least sticking to his chosen path of faith and remaining under the Kingdom Gospel, which saves nobody today given that the Kingdom Gospel is on long since on hold for the time being.

It's horribly sad to me that so many continue the historic practice of trying to intermix the Kingdom Gospel elements with the Gospel of Grace. I attribute much of this phenomenon to the lack of critical thinking skills within public schools. The elite wanted a dumbed down culture willing to go along with whatever the glorified instruments of Satan teach them, and this is one of many results. They inject entire words and phraseology into verses and contexts where they clearly do not belong, thus corrupting the very word of God to us.

Blessings to you and yours.

MM

 

[GaryA]

If you would, please explain how there could possibly be a distinction to the extent that the Lord Himself, opening the seals with His own Hand to release the four horsemen upon the earth, killing one fourth of the entire world's population, is not His wrath.

So, please explain to us all how you drive that wedge of distinction for wrath between the vials and the seals and trumpets.

Perhaps, this may help...

From https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...the-modern-church.201091/page-48#post-4655208 (2021-09-20) :

Don't confuse 'Judgment' and 'Wrath'.

The Seals, Trumpets, and Vials all represent 'Judgment', but not all represent 'Wrath'.

Learn to see the 'events' of the End Times Scenario as events.

The 'Wrath of God', for example, is an 'event' - having a starting point in time and an ending point in time.

A careful examination of scripture will reveal that the 'Great Tribulation' (also an 'event' - scripture tells us when it starts and when it ends - relative to other 'events') ends before the 'Wrath of God' begins.

There is no overlap.

In fact, there are 'events' between the two:

Great Tribulation (ends)
Two Witnesses / Trumpet Events
Jesus appears (Second Coming)
Resurrection & Rapture
Wrath of God "poured out" on wicked

It is very straight-forward and easy to see - IF you look at the order of 'events' based on these criteria:

~ What happens before what?

~ What happens after what?

~ What happens at the same time as what?

Please see: http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Order_Of_Events.html


From https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/rapture-true-or-false.210286/page-9#post-5057777 (2023-04-13) :

'seals' occur over the past ~2000 years (part past, part present, part future)

'trumpets' occur over a period of time that is at least 3.5 years

'vials' occur over a period of time that is somewhere between hours and days

(Needless to say, I believe the three are clearly separate.)

Two Witnesses after end of Great Tribulation and before Second Coming of Christ

Two Witnesses actually cause the 'trumpet' events to occur during their prophecy/testimony

Please see: http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Time_Line.html

As an Israeli, and am therefore well aware of our past and why the 70 weeks were leveled against us, and will continue in the 70th, and against the unbelieving world in totality. I'd very much like to see your thoughts on that.

My thoughts on the 70 weeks:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html