The Rapture

[J7]

The on-going problem is your interpreting the fig tree as referring to Israel. In addition, you are misapply scriptures that have nothing to do with each other. When Jesus cursed the fig tree, he was just cursing the fig tree. There was no underlying reference to Israel in what he did.

Also, the reference to the 6th seal regarding the unripe figs, is just an illustration of how the stars (meteorites, asteroids) are going to fall to the earth. Below is the scripture:

"And when I saw the Lamb open the sixth seal, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black like sackcloth of goat hair, and the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, like unripe figs dropping from a tree shaken by a great wind. The sky receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved from its place."

The above is a literal event that is going to take place when the 6th seal is opened. Notice in the scripture that the sun will be darkened and the moon will be turned blood red. The fact that the scripture is speaking about what is literally going to happen to the sun and moon, would demonstrate that the reference to the stars must also be literal and not symbolic representing Israel. These are events that will be literally happening to the sun, moon and the stars. And since we know that it can't be referring to literal stars, then it must be the other objects in heavens such as meteorites or asteroids. Below is another example:


Matthew 24:32

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its branches become tender and sprout leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that He is near, right at the door."

Do you think that the above scripture that the mentions the fig tree, that it is referring to Israel?

Luke 21:29

"Then Jesus told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31So also, when you see these things taking place, you will know that the kingdom of God is near.

And now with the addition of "and all the trees" is the reference to the fig tree still referring to Israel? By including "all the trees" it becomes clear that the scripture is just an example to show that in the same way that when the trees blossom it is a sign that summer is near. In the same way, when all of those signs begin to take place, you can know that the end of the age is near. Point being that, it is just a comparative example and has nothing to do with Israel being represented by the fig tree.

Just so, so, so, so ignorant.

[FONT=&quot]Jeremiah 24 After Jehoiachin[/FONT][FONT=&quot][a][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and the officials, the skilled workers and the artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] showed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif].[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]2 One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3 Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4 Then the word of the Lord came to me: 5 “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.[b] 6 My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. 7 I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8 “‘But like the bad figs, which are so bad they cannot be eaten,’ says the Lord, ‘so will I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain in this land or live in Egypt. 9 I will make them abhorrent and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a byword, a curse[c] and an object of ridicule, wherever I banish them. 10 I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.’”[/FONT]

 

[Bogadile]

I am still studying this out as I mentioned before and Daniel 7:27 certainly does seem to indicate an earthly rule, what do you think valiant and the rest?

Daniel 7:27 "Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.'"

On the other hand we see that Jesus is a our High Priest in heaven and if He is not in heaven He cannot be a High Priest

Hebrews 8:1-4 "Now the main point in what has been said is this: we have such a high priest, who has taken His seat at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a minister in the sanctuary and in the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer both gifts and sacrifices; so it is necessary that this high priest also have something to offer. Now if He were on earth, He would not be a priest at all, since there are those who offer the gifts according to the Law;"

I also notice in Isaiah 31:4 that the Lord coming down to do something is used, not only here but multiple times in the Old Testament. This is the reason why I would conclude that interpreting every single Old Testament prophecy literally will lead one to error, having either multiple ends of the world or contradicting scenarios of one end of the world.

I however admit as I stated before that Daniel 7:27 does suggest an earthly rule since it says "under heaven", but the kingdom is said to be everlasting and not 1000 years.

 

[PlainWord]

Alright this concludes my research into preterism, here is what I learned: Nothing means what it says.

Thats about it folks have a good night!

You need to study up on the use of Biblical hermeneutics.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Alright this concludes my research into preterism, here is what I learned: Nothing means what it says.

Thats about it folks have a good night!

Regarding preterism, you pretty much hit it on the nail head Issachar. That is exactly how it is with them: nothing means what the scripture says. It is all spiritualized.

 

[J7]

Whilst certainly no preterist, I feel compelled to put in a word.

The language of God, Hebrew, is figurative by design. Not only the language though, God also speaks in figurative terms. You either get it, or you don't.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

'Prick' here is just a figure of speech, it does not mean that Paul was actually physically kicking pricks.

 

[garee]

If Jesus was just cursing the fig tree for the heck of it and it didn't tie into Israel then maybe you can explain these verses. Jesus cursed the fig tree and PRESENTLY it whithered. THEN when the disciples saw the withered fig tree, they asked Jesus "How soon is the fig tree withered away". If the fig tree was already whithered when the disciples saw it, why were they asking Jesus when would the fig tree would be whithered away?

Matthew 21:19-20 KJV
And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
[20] And when the disciples saw it , they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

I would also offer the thing that most miss from my experience is the “time of reformation” had come restoring the government of God to another time period (Judges) before the use of a outward Jews in Temples filled with metaphors that preached the gospel of Christ in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that did come marked by the reformation. It had come to an end the outward flesh being cut off as in circumcision as a representative fruit. The leaves that of the healing of all nations will remain until the last day

 

[Ahwatukee]

Whilst certainly no preterist, I feel compelled to put in a word.

The language of God, Hebrew, is figurative by design. Not only the language though, God also speaks in figurative terms. You either get it, or you don't.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

'Prick' here is just a figure of speech, it does not mean that Paul was actually physically kicking pricks.

Yes, but it is not all figurative and that is the problem. The word of God, including the book of Revelation, should be read in the literal sense unless a symbolic interpretation is obvious. One of the major problems today is people interpreting what is meant to be literal as being symbolic and vise versa, which distorts the meaning.

 

[J7]

Revelation should be read as a book of symbols, with annotations, not the other way around

 

[KJV1611]

Lying in bed last night I was thinking to my self, why do these dumb asses keep robotically posting the same LENGTHY - totally out of context verses over and over no matter what question is asked of them.

Why did Peter say Joel 2 was fulfilled? Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah... I'm a true Christian that's how I know this.

When was the spirit of grace poured out? Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah. if you weren't blind you would see this.

When did the fig tree cast her untimely figs? - Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah... if you really knew God you would know this.

I was thinking about Ahwatukee's statement about Israel NOT being the fig tree and then it hit me! These guys don't know anything about the bible nor prophecy, they spout the same LENGTHY out of context answers over and over because that's all they know.

I would ask Ahwatukee, VCO, Bladerunner and Issachar to please STOP talking about things that you don't know about because you are likely leading TRUE truth seekers astray.

My rant for the morning.

 

[Bogadile]

Lying in bed last night I was thinking to my self, why do these dumb asses keep robotically posting the same LENGTHY - totally out of context verses over and over no matter what question is asked of them.

Why did Peter say Joel 2 was fulfilled? Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah... I'm a true Christian that's how I know this.

When was the spirit of grace poured out? Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah. if you weren't blind you would see this.

When did the fig tree cast her untimely figs? - Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah... if you really knew God you would know this.

I was thinking about Ahwatukee's statement about Israel NOT being the fig tree and then it hit me! These guys don't know anything about the bible nor prophecy, they spout the same LENGTHY out of context answers over and over because that's all they know.

I would ask Ahwatukee, VCO, Bladerunner and Issachar to please STOP talking about things that you don't know about because you are likely leading TRUE truth seekers astray.

My rant for the morning.

Good morning buddy! I do not think eschatology is a salvation issue, but I do appreciate your attitude in that you are still searching (like me) and praying and knocking fitting the puzzle together so to speak.
It is very difficult to fit the Old and New Testament together, putting new wine into old wineskins.
I must admit that after reading Daniel 7:27 I have started to reconsider an earthly reign because that passage unlike Revelation 20 is straight forward about them ruling on earth (under heaven).

 

[garee]

Whilst certainly no preterist, I feel compelled to put in a word.

The language of God, Hebrew, is figurative by design. Not only the language though, God also speaks in figurative terms. You either get it, or you don't.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

'Prick' here is just a figure of speech, it does not mean that Paul was actually physically kicking pricks.

Yes it would be another of the without parables Christ the word of God spoke not .The Holy Spirit hiding the spiritual not seen understanding from natural man. To others trying to make sense out of what they hope is a literal understanding missed the mark.

Kicking the pricks could be compared to one who has leprosy a disease used to show men are dead in he trespasses and sins, the disease of no feeling pain, the second sign to the rebellious shown to Moses by the burning bush.

Saul who was following a law of the fathers as an improper zeal for knowing God resisted the Holy Spirits commandments they had no effect on him. Killing what he perceived was the competitionon (Christians) by the walking by sight doctrines of men (out of sight out of mind)

Better things like the redemption of our soul accompany salvation.

Having the ability of hard and calloused heart that cannot be sensitive to the hearing of faith as one that does bear thorns and briars shows an unreceptive hard heart.

But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak Heb 6:8

 

[KJV1611]

Good morning buddy! I do not think eschatology is a salvation issue, but I do appreciate your attitude in that you are still searching (like me) and praying and knocking fitting the puzzle together so to speak.
It is very difficult to fit the Old and New Testament together, putting new wine into old wineskins.
I must admit that after reading Daniel 7:27 I have started to reconsider an earthly reign because that passage unlike Revelation 20 is straight forward about them ruling on earth (under heaven).

Also consider that a day is as a thousand years. 7 days of the literal creation is a foreshadow of the spiritual creation... God worked 6 literal days and on the 7th day he rested. God has been working on the spiritual creation for 6000 years and we are in or about to enter into the 7000th year.

 

[KJV1611]

Whilst certainly no preterist, I feel compelled to put in a word.

The language of God, Hebrew, is figurative by design. Not only the language though, God also speaks in figurative terms. You either get it, or you don't.

14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

'Prick' here is just a figure of speech, it does not mean that Paul was actually physically kicking pricks.

Things that stick or prick - thorns, represent sin. Jesus wore a crown of thorns and bore our sins. Paul was given a thorn in his flesh to keep him humble.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Why did Peter say Joel 2 was fulfilled? Answer - The church is raptured and the antichrist makes a 7 year peace treaty blah blah blah... I'm a true Christian that's how I know this.

Here's the scripture:

‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days,and they will prophesy.

Peter should have stopped before proceeding with the following and that because there has been no fulfillment of it, but is yet future. The information in those verses below have to do with end-time events. Verse 20 is in reference to the 6th seal, which definitely has not yet taken place.

19I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below,blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’

I would ask Ahwatukee, VCO, Bladerunner and Issachar to please STOP talking about things that you don't know about because you are likely leading TRUE truth seekers astray.

I would ask you the same thing, because you really don't understand scripture. All of you who think that all of the end-time events have already taken place are in for a big surprise. You'll know it when you see some political figure make a seven year covenant with Israel, which will allow them to build their temple. Following that will be the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. So, just keep watching. By the way, none of my responses are out of context, but speak directly from scripture.

 

[J7]

The moon represents Jerusalem, you agreed all this regarding Joseph and the dream.

The moon will be turned to blood ==

Jerusalem will be a bloodbath

Here's the scripture:

‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days,and they will prophesy.

Peter should have stopped before proceeding with the following and that because there has been no fulfillment of it, but is yet future. The information in those verses below have to do with end-time events. Verse 20 is in reference to the 6th seal, which definitely has not yet taken place.

19I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below,blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’



I would ask you the same thing, because you really don't understand scripture. All of you who think that all of the end-time events have already taken place are in for a big surprise. You'll know it when you see some political figure make a seven year covenant with Israel, which will allow them to build their temple. Following that will be the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. So, just keep watching. By the way, none of my responses are out of context, but speak directly from scripture.

 

[J7]

Matthew 11:15

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear

Favourite verse, as of now.

 

[KJV1611]

Here's the scripture:

‘In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days,and they will prophesy.

Peter should have stopped before proceeding with the following and that because there has been no fulfillment of it, but is yet future. The information in those verses below have to do with end-time events. Verse 20 is in reference to the 6th seal, which definitely has not yet taken place.

19I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below,blood and fire and billows of smoke. 20The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord. 21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’



I would ask you the same thing, because you really don't understand scripture. All of you who think that all of the end-time events have already taken place are in for a big surprise. You'll know it when you see some political figure make a seven year covenant with Israel, which will allow them to build their temple. Following that will be the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. So, just keep watching. By the way, none of my responses are out of context, but speak directly from scripture.

I'm sorry, I've gone over this over and over. I'm done, J7 gave the correct reply. We know J7 is right because Peter said those things happened. Wonders were shown in heaven, there were signs in the earth, blood and fire and vapor of smoke... all symbolic language, not literal. The sun was turned to darkness, the moon to blood not literal. The only thing we can't say for sure was fulfilled was the day of the Lord. Because all those things I just mentioned happened BEFORE the day of the Lord came.

Acts 2:19-20 KJV
And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: [20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

 

[J7]

All Peter is saying is that Jerusalem will be turned into a charnel house (the moon will turn to blood) and the Land of Judea (Israel) will have God's blessing and protective covering removed (the sun shall turn to darkness), i.e. will be ravaged by Roman troops, before Jesus returns.

So in AD70 those things happened, and Jesus has not returned yet.

QED

 

[KJV1611]

All Peter is saying is that Jerusalem will be turned into a charnel house (the moon will turn to blood) and the Land of Judea (Israel) will have God's blessing and protective covering removed (the sun shall turn to darkness), i.e. will be ravaged by Roman troops, before Jesus returns.

So in AD70 those things happened, and Jesus has not returned yet.

QED

I agree, the sun was turned to darkness and the moon to blood and THEN in Ad 70 the day of the Lord came.
Since that is the case, I don't think the moon turning to blood means the blood bath of AD 70.

 

[J7]

The great and notable Day of the Lord is the Second coming.

AD67-73, the destruction of Judea ( & Jerusalem) were the Days Of Vengeance.

Two different things completely.