The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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And tie this in with:

Rom 13:11 Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.

Rom 13:12 The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

"knowing the time, salvation is nearer, the day is near" all point to the very rapidly approaching "rapture" in their life time.

Post-Trib if ever I saw one...
And this.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Salvation apparently doesn't happen the moment you accept Christ, it happens at judgment. The wrath came in 70 AD.


[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, [SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Salvation comes when He appears (appeared) a second time or upon death. Our names have to be found written in the Book.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Actually, I've never watched a single episode of Sons of Anarchy...


Somethings just go right over peoples heads..

So does that mean you got your THEOLOGY from the TWILIGHT ZONE?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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Why is it so hard for most to see what is so clear to us? All they have to do is read and take the plain meaning (PLW). It's so simple and straightforward.
Because for them "at hand" means anytime in the future (or the big hand not the little hand), "shortly" means "longly", "quickly" means when ever it might happen it'll be quick, "the day" could be any day soon, "soon" means sooner or later.

And then they've got to cheek we don't take the scriptures literally......
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Because for them "at hand" means anytime in the future (or the big hand not the little hand), "shortly" means "longly", "quickly" means when ever it might happen it'll be quick, "the day" could be any day soon, "soon" means sooner or later.

And then they've got to cheek we don't take the scriptures literally......
Well said. Once this doctrine sets in, it's nearly impossible to root it out. Its all about timing. Our view is actually preferable.

They don't go through the tribulation because they think they are raptured
We don't go through it because its been over for 1947 years.

They slaughter millions of weak or new Christians during the GT
We don't because wrath doesn't apply to any Christian and the GT is over

They think only their soul goes to heaven upon death
I believe our souls go and we get our new body when we arrive, no waiting

I could probably go on, but I'm sleepy.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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[SUP]24 [/SUP]And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations.

When was the last time a conquering country took all survivors back captive and sold them as slaves to other nations? Is this being done anymore? Forget that, who uses swords?
 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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And this.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Salvation apparently doesn't happen the moment you accept Christ, it happens at judgment. The wrath came in 70 AD.


[SUP]27 [/SUP]And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, [SUP]28 [/SUP]so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

Salvation comes when He appears (appeared) a second time or upon death. Our names have to be found written in the Book.
"Salvation apparently doesn't happen the moment you accept Christ, it happens at judgment. The wrath came in 70 AD."

I wus jus thinking along those lines:

Luke 21:28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”


Strongs

G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis

from a compound of G575 and G3083;

(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,232
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"Salvation apparently doesn't happen the moment you accept Christ, it happens at judgment. The wrath came in 70 AD."

I wus jus thinking along those lines:

Luke 21:28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”


Strongs

G629 apolutrosis ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis

from a compound of G575 and G3083;

(the act) ransom in full, i.e. (figuratively) riddance, or (specially) Christian salvation.
Yes, this passage always bothered me. That interpretation would explain it. What does this do to "eternal security?"
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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I could probably go on, but I'm sleepy.
Yah, take a break, have a nap and keep up with the therapy.

I should be changing the air filter on my car, it's a pain because the front wheel has to come off and then the inner wheel arch liner...grrr....this is more fun, upsetting the futurist carts..:p
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
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Yes, this passage always bothered me. That interpretation would explain it. What does this do to "eternal security?"
Good question.....I think you do your best thinking when yer sleepy...
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,232
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Yah, take a break, have a nap and keep up with the therapy.

I should be changing the air filter on my car, it's a pain because the front wheel has to come off and then the inner wheel arch liner...grrr....this is more fun, upsetting the futurist carts..:p
Sounds like a bigger job than my knee replacement. Took the doctor just 35 minutes to replace it. Told him I couldn't change a tire that fast.

Take it easy brother. I feel bad for them, they are so passionately blind. They think we are the ones with unsound doctrine. Some day I'm going to document all the twisting they do.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
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Wow - that was quick - but nowadays they've got the hi-tech and the technique down to an art.
 

J7

Banned
Apr 2, 2017
1,915
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Lol.
No man knoweth the day nor the hour. Basic


And tie this in with:

Rom 13:11 Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.

Rom 13:12 The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light.

"knowing the time, salvation is nearer, the day is near" all point to the very rapidly approaching "rapture" in their life time.

Post-Trib if ever I saw one...
 
Jul 23, 2017
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Just letting yall folks know a lil something that "no man knows the day or the hour" is actually a hebrew idiom.
Its related to Rosh Hashanah and the trumpet being blown with 2 watchers not knowing the exact timing of when it is because it has to do with moon and sun as the hebrew calendar does.
could this mean da rapture might happen during or around tha time of rosh hashanah? this is an interesting thing. notice how Jesus fulfills all da jewish feasts, trumpets passover atonement all of it.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
6,488
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At the Rapture the time of the gentiles will be fulfilled. Then the time of the Jew will resume.


I have come to the Conclusion that Locutus and Plainword are not worth trying to debate at all anymore. They have proven themselves be the Prophecied SCOFFERS of the LAST DAYS, and therefore should be IGNORED. Locutus was making fun of the Proper interpretation of THIS GENERATION, when HE DOES NOT EVEN REALIZE that his rediculous interpretion that it referred to the people Jesus was talking to, came from his total failure to read the entire CONTEXT and to COMPARE IT TO OTHER SCRIPTURES ON THE SAME SUBJECT. Let me show you why their JANKING VERSES out of CONTEXT only CREATES those kinds of MISINTERPRETATIONS.


Matthew 24:3-44 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] While He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached Him privately and said,
“Tell us, when will these things happen?
And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”

[SUP]{THIS ENTIRE CONVERSATION THAT FOLLOWS IS IN RESPONSE TO THOSE TWO QUESTIONS.}
4
[/SUP] Then Jesus replied to them:Watch out that no one deceives you.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will deceive many.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] You are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, because these things must take place, but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines
and earthquakes in various places.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] All these events are the beginning of birth pains.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]
Then they will hand you over for persecution, and they will kill you.{Beheading of the Tribulation Saints who refuse the Mark of the Beast.} You will be hated by all nations because of My name. {The unsaved World will hate the JEWS even more after they get SAVED and believe JESUS IS THEIR MESSIAH. Rom. 11:26}
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Then many will take offense, betray one another and hate one another.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Many false prophets will rise up and deceive many.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] But the one who endures to the end will be delivered.

[SUP]14 [/SUP] This good news of the kingdom will be proclaimed in all the world as a testimony
to all nations.
And then the end will come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]
“So when you see the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place” (let the reader understand),
[SUP]16 [/SUP] then those in Judea must flee to the mountains!
*
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A man on the housetop
must not come down to get things out of his house.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And a man in the field must not go back to get his clothes.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers in those days!
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Pray that your escape may not be in winter or on a Sabbath.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For at that time there will be great tribulation, the kind that hasn’t taken place from the beginning of the world until now and never will again!
[SUP]22[/SUP]
Unless those days were limited, no one would survive {IN THE WHOLE WORLD}. But those days will be limited because of the elect.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] “If anyone tells you then, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘Over here!’ do not believe it!
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs
and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] So if they tell you, ‘Look, He’s in the wilderness!’
{New Age Gurus held big rallies in Northern California, in the woods near Mt. Shasta, when I lived near there. One of those Gurus even claimed to be the reincarnation of Christ.} don’t go out; ‘Look, He’s in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it.
{THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY (Jehovah Witnesses) actually teaches that Jesus returned Spiritually, and indwells the inner rooms of the WATCHTOWER PUBLISHING HOUSE insuring that everything published there is equal to the WORD OF GOD.}
[SUP]27 [/SUP] For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
{THAT IS NOT THE SECOND COMING, BECAUSE AT THAT SECOND COMING ALL THE WORLD'S ARMIES HAVE TIME TO GATHER TO BATTLE AT JERUSALEM (Rev. 19), therefore verse 27 refers to the Calling Out of the Bride to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven.}
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] “Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the celestial powers will be shaken.
{Isa. 34:4, Dan. 8:10}
[SUP]30 [/SUP] “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn;
and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
{THAT IS THE SECOND COMING.}

[SUP]31 [/SUP] He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, {That is for certain the Resurrection of the Martyred Saints of the Tribulation, and some think the O.T. Saints too, but I think the O.T. Saints go with us in the RAPTURE.}from one end of the sky to the other.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] In the same way, when
you see all these things, recognize that He is near—at the door!
{In Hebrew writings it is common to refer to FUTURE ISRAEL as YOU, when talking to ISRAELITES. I will prove that with the next portion of Scripture that I will use as my PROOF TEXT. I will mark it with an Asterik *, and it is the Proof Text for verse 16 above too.}
[SUP]34 [/SUP]{Then Referring to the Generation in the future that will be eyewitnesses to all the above, HE SAYS:} I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
{See HE IS STILL TALKING ABOUT THE DISTANT FUTURE.}
[SUP]36 [/SUP] “Now concerning that day and hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son—except the Father only.
[SUP]37 [/SUP] As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark.
[SUP]39 [/SUP] They didn’t know
until the flood came and swept them all away. So this is the way the coming of the Son of Man will be:
[SUP]40 [/SUP] Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and one left.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and one left.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] Therefore be alert, since you don’t know what day
your Lord is coming.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] But know this: If the homeowner had known what time
the thief was coming, he would have stayed alert and not let his house be broken into.
[SUP]44 [/SUP] This is why you also must be ready, because the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


I was Taught to always read the entire CONTEXT before you even try to INTERPRET it,
AND THEN, after reading it, you MUST also research other Scriptures on the same SUBJECT.
THEN, knowing that GOD DOES NOT CONTRADICT HIMSELF, You can then arrive at a good interpretation.

HERE IS MY PROOF TEXT FOR THE ABOVE:


Zechariah 14:1-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided in your presence.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle. The city will be captured, the houses looted, and the women raped. Half the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be removed from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations as He fights on a day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west,
forming a huge valley, {THAT IDENTIFIES IT AS STILL IN THE FUTURE.}so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You * will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains* will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
{THAT TERM "living water", comes from the Temple, where the PRIESTS had to purify everything with "living water", which they meant to be moving water from Streams or Springs, so once again it is STILL IN THE FUTURE.}
[SUP]9 [/SUP] On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] All the land from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem will be changed into a plain. {So once again it is STILL IN THE FUTURE.} But ⌊Jerusalem⌋ will be raised up and will remain on its site from the Benjamin Gate to the place of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] People will live there, and never again will there be a curse of complete destruction. So Jerusalem will dwell in security. {So once again it is STILL IN THE FUTURE.}
[SUP]12 [/SUP] This will be the plague the LORD strikes all the peoples with, who have warred against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
{So once again it is STILL IN THE FUTURE.}
[SUP]13 [/SUP] On that day a great panic from the LORD will be among them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Judah will also fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected: gold, silver, and clothing in great abundance.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The same plague as the previous one will strike the horses, mules, camels, donkeys, and all the animals that are in those camps.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
{So once again it is STILL IN THE FUTURE.} [SUP]
17 [/SUP] Should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, rain will not fall on them.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] This will be the punishment of Egypt and all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Booths.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] On that day, ⌊the words⌋ HOLY TO THE LORD will be on the bells of the horses. The pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling basins before the altar.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] Every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts. Everyone who sacrifices {First Fruits grain wave offering is sometimes called a Sacrifice, because it pictures the Sacrifice and Resurrection of our LORD.} will come and take some of the pots to cook in. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of Hosts.


Many of the SAME EVENTS are described in both of those portions of Scripture, and when you read them back to back it becomes VERY CLEAR THAT IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE LAST SEVEN YEARS before the Second Coming and on into the Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ.
 
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Dec 21, 2012
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Luke 21:28 “But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (Greek - apolutrosis) is drawing near.”


Yes, this passage always bothered me. That interpretation would explain it. What does this do to "eternal security?"
Redemption can also be applied towards receiving your first inheritance; the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus to be received as a vessel unto honor in His House.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]30 [/SUP]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Ephesians 1:[SUP]1 [/SUP]In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:[SUP] 12 [/SUP]That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,[SUP] 14 [/SUP]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Which is why Esau and the prodigal son is used as a reference to those who gave up that first inheritance for iniquity and unless they repent with the help of the Good Shepherd before the Bridegroom comes, they run the risk of becoming castaways to be received later on after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House.

Can Jesus as the Bridegroom, have time to sit down and eat with the O.T. saints ( Luke 13:24-30 ) if when He comes back, He is doing battle with Satan and the world's armies as the King of kings to establish His milleniel reign on earth ( Zechariah 14:1-5 )?

So there are 2 events that will occur, and the reason it is "hid" from most believers is because they are not asking Him about this to confirm that there is a pre trib rapture when God will judge His House first when He will receive His disciples with hospitality to the Marriage Supper BEFORE His return as King of kings to deal with Satan & the world's armies at Jerusalem before the first resurrection takes place in raising those saints left behind and new saints after the great tribulation when He is already on earth. Do note Revelation 20th chapter has Satan in the pit for a thousand years before the so called "first resurrection" takes place that many believers misread as deferring from the rest of the dead that shall be resurrected later on and therefore not meaning the only resurrection since Jesus Christ. The pre trib rapture will come first.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
3,779
78
48
I have come to the Conclusion that Locutus and Plainword are not worth trying to debate at all anymore. They have proven themselves be the Prophecied SCOFFERS of the LAST DAYS, and therefore should be IGNORED. Locutus was making fun of the Proper interpretation of THIS GENERATION, when HE DOES NOT EVEN REALIZE that his rediculous interpretion that it referred to the people Jesus was talking to, came from his total failure to read the entire CONTEXT and to COMPARE IT TO OTHER SCRIPTURES ON THE SAME SUBJECT. Let me show you why their JANKING VERSES out of CONTEXT only CREATES those kinds of MISINTERPRETATIONS.
You ain't shown nothing with that Great Wall of Text Manwell.






 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,058
40
48
Lol. That is a bad joke.
You are totally off base again VCO, you have confused the Abrahamic Covenant with the Mosaic Covenant....

Then I would like to hear about this "Mosaic" Covenant