The problem with discussing eschatology is both Daniel and Revelation are written in very symbolic language. Daniel even says it is closed until the end times implying Revelation is the same. Therefore eschatology is guesswork. That is why there are 4 different Biblical versions of it. Any time I read or hear anyone saying they know details I turn a deaf ear because in reality nobody knows.
The Rapture
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I am totally in agreement with you on this. A person who tries to do this on their own can not. My case is different but unfortunately I can not prove this. I would not even try this if it wasn't for this angel verifying these things in the Bible for me first. I am not coming up with this off the top of my head. I ask, he answers and sometimes elaborates more deeply on what the Bible says. True, not in scripture but does not contradict the Bible. He only clarifies questions on the Bible that I ask of him. Sometimes he tells me I'm not allowed to know certain things. Other times he says the answer is out there and I have to do research, which he will confirm it or not when I find the answers. Sometimes it takes months and is very aggravating. Sometimes he won't answer the question and tells me not to repeat what I've asked to anyone. Don't know why on this but I have to accept it. Other times He will make me wait while he gets permission to tell me something or not. Sometimes it takes days to do so.
He helps me with demonic work. Satan can not have a house divided. Jesus says this himself. He confessed the Gospel of Jesus Christ to me passing the test of 1st John 4: 1-3. Ask anyone who does exorcism or demonic warfare (if you know any) if one will do this? I have not heard of one doing this. They argue it or leave, that simple.
This angel gave a sign that should happen in May of this year. I'm sure by now your aware of this. I'm waiting like you all are to see what happens in May.
I have more serious work to do and it takes up a lot of my nights doing them So for now I'm going to leave this sight and do my primary work.
Again, I'm not a Prophet. Not trying to start a cult and wish to be anonymous as possible.
If what this angel said happens in May remember this only for what was written about the Rapture event. Not to make some kind of Prophet out of me. I am not worthy of that honor being I have not lived a pure life and I do not have the discipline to meditate long enough to become one. Praying 40 days is not my cup of tea.
So till June 1st I am going to duck out of here. I believe I've said enough and argued the possibility enough for everyone.
We just have to wait till the end of May and see.
May God's Peace and Blessing be upon all of my fellow Christians.
I have more serious work to do and it takes up a lot of my nights doing them So for now I'm going to leave this sight and do my primary work.
Again, I'm not a Prophet. Not trying to start a cult and wish to be anonymous as possible.
If what this angel said happens in May remember this only for what was written about the Rapture event. Not to make some kind of Prophet out of me. I am not worthy of that honor being I have not lived a pure life and I do not have the discipline to meditate long enough to become one. Praying 40 days is not my cup of tea.
So till June 1st I am going to duck out of here. I believe I've said enough and argued the possibility enough for everyone.
We just have to wait till the end of May and see.
May God's Peace and Blessing be upon all of my fellow Christians.
Firstly you need to take into consideration why there is this belief in a Pre Trib rapture at all. The answer is that it stems not from a direct statement in scripture but from a fundamental belief in a system whereby the the Church and Israel are two separate entities and that God has different plans for each of them. In this system it is believed that Israel had been set aside for 2000+ years and God has concentrated on the Church. In the last days the Church will be removed together with the Holy Spirit, whose presence on earth is preventing the Antichrist from being revealed and the seven year tribulation to commence. During this period God will turn his attention back again to Israel. So according to this system in order for the tribulation to commence the Church together with the Holy Spirit has to be removed.
It would take a a whole book or more for me give a full detailed explanation of all this. As there are many on sale for those interested. Meanwhile here is an order of events Paul gave to the Thessalonians:
1 A falling away/Rebellion
2 The Son of perdition being revealed
3 The Lord will slay him with the breath of his mouth at his coming
2 Thessalonians
In this passage he mentions the antichrist being restrained and being taken out of the way. It is assumed that the Holy Spirit that is taken out of the way. But does that mean he is taken from the Earth? If it does how are the 144000 sealed and how are all these so called tribulation saints sanctified that missed the rapture.
Apart from this there are many references to a second coming together and the resurrection of the dead but no mention of a secret silent Rapture that seems to be the Pre Trib requirement. In fact according to Paul its a noisy scene with a shout and a trumpet blowing. Finally Paul also writes about the second coming in 2 Thess 1:5-12
It would take a a whole book or more for me give a full detailed explanation of all this. As there are many on sale for those interested. Meanwhile here is an order of events Paul gave to the Thessalonians:
1 A falling away/Rebellion
2 The Son of perdition being revealed
3 The Lord will slay him with the breath of his mouth at his coming
2 Thessalonians
In this passage he mentions the antichrist being restrained and being taken out of the way. It is assumed that the Holy Spirit that is taken out of the way. But does that mean he is taken from the Earth? If it does how are the 144000 sealed and how are all these so called tribulation saints sanctified that missed the rapture.
Apart from this there are many references to a second coming together and the resurrection of the dead but no mention of a secret silent Rapture that seems to be the Pre Trib requirement. In fact according to Paul its a noisy scene with a shout and a trumpet blowing. Finally Paul also writes about the second coming in 2 Thess 1:5-12
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To slightly go off topic for a bit, with the falling away/rebellion, and we are seeing evidence of this on such a grand scale including moral declines, and the garbage being taught in the education system today, but there is one more thing I wanted to discuss about this.
I was reading a interesting article that got me thinking, and some past articles I have come across concerning the building of the 3rd temple, and in relation to this the animal sacrifices.
Now would the going back to the animal sacrifice system when the 3rd temple is rebuilt, indicate that those who take part in this ritual reject Messiah's finished work on the cross??
I was reading a interesting article that got me thinking, and some past articles I have come across concerning the building of the 3rd temple, and in relation to this the animal sacrifices.
Now would the going back to the animal sacrifice system when the 3rd temple is rebuilt, indicate that those who take part in this ritual reject Messiah's finished work on the cross??
A...,
The only reason the Jew is not doing animal sacrifices now is because there is no temple which they believe must exist for such sacrifices to be proper.
With or without the sacrifices the Jew rejects Christ, and always has. Thus the reason for their tribulations through out history including the terrible killing of Jews in the 1930-45 period.
We don't know if G-d is finished with tribulations upon the Jewish people or if there is more to come. Only time and world events will provide the answer.
As a Christian Hebrew I cannot believe they continue to reject Christ, given the OT, which they believe totally, except the reference to Christ in the future and given the fact that He did arrive in the NT. Proof of the Bible.
The only reason the Jew is not doing animal sacrifices now is because there is no temple which they believe must exist for such sacrifices to be proper.
With or without the sacrifices the Jew rejects Christ, and always has. Thus the reason for their tribulations through out history including the terrible killing of Jews in the 1930-45 period.
We don't know if G-d is finished with tribulations upon the Jewish people or if there is more to come. Only time and world events will provide the answer.
As a Christian Hebrew I cannot believe they continue to reject Christ, given the OT, which they believe totally, except the reference to Christ in the future and given the fact that He did arrive in the NT. Proof of the Bible.
You are ignoring that Daniel states it is a closed book until the end times. That is scripture that is easy to understand. And you claim poopycock!! Revelation obviously has the same status. This is the reason theologians have created 4 seperate Biblical views of the end times.
Here are a couple of sites discussing the 4 main eschatologyical views. Notice some have minor variations.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm
Eschatology, end times, & millennialism: Competing theories
Poopycock to you.
Here are a couple of sites discussing the 4 main eschatologyical views. Notice some have minor variations.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/mill.cfm
Eschatology, end times, & millennialism: Competing theories
Poopycock to you.
Jews are unique in history. All other groups that were removed from their location have vanished in history. Nobody knows where they ended up. Jews alone kept their identity for thousands of years. They are God's chosen people. He said He would chastise them but still claim them. The devastation visited on Germany is an example of God's vengeance. Japan escaped a similar fate by surrendering after the atomic bombs.
The war went up Italy but the devastation was not nearly as bad as Germany. Bomber command devastated entire cities. There are videos on Netflix and Amazon Prime Video about this. The scenes of the view from above with the first low level wave dropping incindieries as a beacon to the rest of higher level wave after wave of bombs being dropped causing the spread of the fire throughout the city. This happened to several war manufacturing cities. Thousand of civilians killed and hundreds of thousands made homeless in each of several cities. Factories demolished.
The war went up Italy but the devastation was not nearly as bad as Germany. Bomber command devastated entire cities. There are videos on Netflix and Amazon Prime Video about this. The scenes of the view from above with the first low level wave dropping incindieries as a beacon to the rest of higher level wave after wave of bombs being dropped causing the spread of the fire throughout the city. This happened to several war manufacturing cities. Thousand of civilians killed and hundreds of thousands made homeless in each of several cities. Factories demolished.
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Here is Matthew talking about the second coming of Jesus and other things.
Matthew 24 NIV Return of Jesus
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Oops!
Verse 36 roadkill.
Verse 22 for those who do not understand how devastating the tribulation will be.
Verse 36 is the rapture.
Matthew 24 NIV Return of Jesus
3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.
9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Oops!
Verse 36 roadkill.
Verse 22 for those who do not understand how devastating the tribulation will be.
Verse 36 is the rapture.
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Stupid 5 minute rule!!
Verse 30 is rapture.
First edit is always getting rid of the added line feed creating extra blank lines. Then after fixing that and saving it I see text problems to fix. Sometimes I see more after doing a fix. Oops 5 minute rule. If I take my time being careful and try to save it. Oops 5 minute rule!! There is a reason other forum sites use 15 minutes. Seems like this Admin ignores these issues. The 5 minute rule is absolutely ridiculous.
Verse 30 is rapture.
First edit is always getting rid of the added line feed creating extra blank lines. Then after fixing that and saving it I see text problems to fix. Sometimes I see more after doing a fix. Oops 5 minute rule. If I take my time being careful and try to save it. Oops 5 minute rule!! There is a reason other forum sites use 15 minutes. Seems like this Admin ignores these issues. The 5 minute rule is absolutely ridiculous.
Glad you agree he is a nut job doing harm to the church. However, there is no prophesy of a new earthly temple to be built and even if one were to be built, God would never honor it or dwell there as He does not reside in buildings built by men. What did Jesus say? He would tear the temple down and rebuild it in 3 days. What was He talking about? Do you not understand what the temple is today and who makes it up? This is the temple were God and Christ reign. It has been more than 3 days, right?
The "rapture" was associated with the resurrection which occurred in the first century AD, just as Christ and Paul taught. This stuff was a big deal back then because 2,000 years of doing things a certain way were changing. 2,000+ years of dead saints destined for heaven put on hold in Hades was about to end along with their separation from God as in Christ, the captives were set free. Christ had victory over death. He doesn't need to come back in our days and times to do anything.
The old age ended and we entered the new age back in the first century and have been in this new age ever since. Why do you think we got a new calendar and starting counting years? We are counting the years of this age, the "age to come" as they called it back then. The old ways (the Law, etc.) passed away. We have a new path to salvation and to Heaven. When we die, we immediately go to heaven transformed into spiritual beings. We don't need to wait for a new body, a "rapture" or anything else. We die, we go to heaven, we are judged and receive our rewards PERIOD, end of story. Hallelujah!!
The "rapture" was associated with the resurrection which occurred in the first century AD, just as Christ and Paul taught. This stuff was a big deal back then because 2,000 years of doing things a certain way were changing. 2,000+ years of dead saints destined for heaven put on hold in Hades was about to end along with their separation from God as in Christ, the captives were set free. Christ had victory over death. He doesn't need to come back in our days and times to do anything.
The old age ended and we entered the new age back in the first century and have been in this new age ever since. Why do you think we got a new calendar and starting counting years? We are counting the years of this age, the "age to come" as they called it back then. The old ways (the Law, etc.) passed away. We have a new path to salvation and to Heaven. When we die, we immediately go to heaven transformed into spiritual beings. We don't need to wait for a new body, a "rapture" or anything else. We die, we go to heaven, we are judged and receive our rewards PERIOD, end of story. Hallelujah!!
Let's get real and understand this. Most of you are waiting for an event that happened nearly 2,000 years ago.
2 Thessalonians 2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
This already happened in 70 AD. What are the key elements in this passage?
1. Deception - Lie
2. Someone opposing and raising himself up above God in the temple
3. People following this lie and dying as a result
4. This Lawless One is destroyed by the Lord's presence
5. Before this, there will be a "falling away" (from the Law)
Josephus records this very event. All the elements of Paul's story can be found except #5 which he describes in great detail before this passage. You have a false prophet, you have 6,000 deceived people. All 6,000 died as a result of the deception. The prophet himself dies on the very day the temple was destroyed which happens at the "Day of the Lord" where the Presence of God and Christ were evident. Here, what else do you need?
2 Thessalonians 2 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
2 And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- [the day doth not come].
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Do ye not remember that, being yet with you, these things I said to you?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and now, what is keeping down ye have known, for his being revealed in his own time,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]for the secret of the lawlessness doth already work, only he who is keeping down now [will hinder] -- till he may be out of the way,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,
[SUP]9 [/SUP][him,] whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie...
[SUP]2 [/SUP]that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,
[SUP]4 [/SUP]who is opposing and is raising himself up above all called God or worshipped, so that he in the sanctuary of God as God hath sat down, shewing himself off that he is God -- [the day doth not come].
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Do ye not remember that, being yet with you, these things I said to you?
[SUP]6 [/SUP]and now, what is keeping down ye have known, for his being revealed in his own time,
[SUP]7 [/SUP]for the secret of the lawlessness doth already work, only he who is keeping down now [will hinder] -- till he may be out of the way,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]and then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the manifestation of his presence,
[SUP]9 [/SUP][him,] whose presence is according to the working of the Adversary, in all power, and signs, and lying wonders,
[SUP]10 [/SUP]and in all deceitfulness of the unrighteousness in those perishing, because the love of the truth they did not receive for their being saved,
[SUP]11 [/SUP]and because of this shall God send to them a working of delusion, for their believing the lie...
This already happened in 70 AD. What are the key elements in this passage?
1. Deception - Lie
2. Someone opposing and raising himself up above God in the temple
3. People following this lie and dying as a result
4. This Lawless One is destroyed by the Lord's presence
5. Before this, there will be a "falling away" (from the Law)
Josephus records this very event. All the elements of Paul's story can be found except #5 which he describes in great detail before this passage. You have a false prophet, you have 6,000 deceived people. All 6,000 died as a result of the deception. The prophet himself dies on the very day the temple was destroyed which happens at the "Day of the Lord" where the Presence of God and Christ were evident. Here, what else do you need?
The soldiers also came to the rest of the cloisters that were in the outer [court of the] temple, whither the women and children, and a great mixed multitude of the people, fled, in number about six thousand. But before Caesar had determined any thing about these people, or given the commanders any orders relating to them, the soldiers were in such a rage, that they set that cloister on fire; by which means it came to pass that some of these were destroyed by throwing themselves down headlong, and some were burnt in the cloisters themselves. Nor did any one of them escape with his life. A false prophet was the occasion of these people's destruction, who had made a public proclamation in the city that very day, that God commanded them to get upon the temple, and that there they should receive miraculous signs of their deliverance.