The Rapture

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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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I have been down the path using the numbers you use. The problem is most theologians say a prophetic day is a year. Therefore the 1335 days is 1335 years. Then there is the starting point. This is hard to determine. These numbers have been used to try and predict when Jesus will return. Lots of guesses and failure every time. Go back to the drawing board and take Daniel's word the book is closed till the end times.

Why do so many try to make 70AD the end times? Jesus isn't sitting on the throne in Jerusalem.
Brother Locutus, how much patience are we supposed to have? Maybe I should stop trying to teach/help people.

70 AD was the end of Israel, not the world. Does Daniel say "end of the world?" Look again:

And he saith, `Go, Daniel; for hidden and sealed [are] the things till the time of the end;

What country was Daniel talking about pretty much throughout? What country was he concerned with? What people are in focus?

And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people, and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time, and at that time do thy people escape...

Who was the angel discussing in the above? THY PEOPLE!! Who were Daniel's people? Now what does Jesus say?


Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]then those in Judea -- let them flee to the mounts.

What country was most closely associated with Judea at the time Christ said this? Who are escaping, the world or some in Israel? Let's look at Luke's account:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her;

[SUP]22 [/SUP]because these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all things that have been written

What nation do you suppose Jesus was warning people to avoid during His coming wrath? Does anything come to mind? Where do you find Jesus sitting on a throne in Jerusalem? This is news to me.
 
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garee

Senior Member
Mar 28, 2016
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The word Revelation means to reveal or unveil. What you suggest is just the opposite. If you examine the book and compare it to parts of the Pentateuch,Prophets and Gospels you will find that a great deal of Revelation is connected to them.Examples are the plagues of Egypt, Ezekiel which appears to be used as a template to Revelation having at least 20 similar features shared by both books, Then there is the much debated Daniel and the Prophetic words of Jesus. Allusions to OT passages can be found throughout the book.
Yes it does mean to reveal. Just as signified means the thingor concept not seen is denoted by a sign, as that seen .

It’s the kind of thing that makes up parables. Notlooking to the things seen the temporal but to the things not seen that revealthe spiritual meaning hid from natural man


1While we look not at the things which are seen, but atthe things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; butthe things which are not seen are eternal.2 Corinthians 4;18


For instance in Chapter 20 it speaks of a key that bindsand loosens as that seen it points the unseen the eternal gospel .The gospelkey binds and loosens

The whole book is set forth as a parable without parablesChrist the Holy Spirit of God does not reveal.


Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 TheRevelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servantsthings which must shortly come to pass; and he sent "and" signified it by hisangel unto his servant John:
 
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PlainWord

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Jun 11, 2013
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The holy place is not the city of Jerusalem but the temple. Trying to wiggle around this fact is illogical!!! It is just trying to make 70AD end times ignoring the tribulation prophecies. There are trumpets and bowls causing massive destruction. One has to be shortened to prevent all life being killed. That one implies a nuclear war. Armageddon will start that war. You keep ignoring a lot of end times prophecies that have yet to take place. At no time in the past has there been a war that could wipe out all life. How do you explain away this??


What is the city called? Holy perhaps??? Can a city be a place or a holy place? Who was Jesus quoting, Daniel? Do we see Jerusalem referred to as “holy” in Daniel? Let’s see:

Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city..


Any other place where Jerusalem is called "holy."

Matthew 4:5
Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,


Matthew 27:53
and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Revelation 11:2
But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months
.

Nehemiah 11:1
Now the leaders of the people dwelt at Jerusalem; the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to dwell in Jerusalem, the holy city, and nine-tenths were to dwell in other cities.

Isaiah 48:2
For they call themselves after the holy city, And lean on the God of Israel; The Lord of hosts is His name


Here’s a god one. What would an uncircumcised and unclean Roman be called on sacred soil? An ABOMINATION perhaps?

Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Zion; Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city! For the uncircumcised and the unclean Shall no longer come to you.


In fact, what do many people call Israel today, "the Holy Land???" Some might ask, "have you ever been to the Holy Land?" Are they speaking only of the temple?

Forget Abomination and focus on the other word DESOLATION. What caused the desolation of Jerusalem? If you answered "The Roman Army" you would be correct.
[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]
 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
9,052
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What is the city called? Holy perhaps??? Can a city be a place or a holy place? Who was Jesus quoting, Daniel? Do we see Jerusalem referred to as “holy” in Daniel? Let’s see:

Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city..


Any other place where Jerusalem is called "holy."

Matthew 4:5
Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,


Matthew 27:53
and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Revelation 11:2
But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months
.

Nehemiah 11:1
Now the leaders of the people dwelt at Jerusalem; the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to dwell in Jerusalem, the holy city, and nine-tenths were to dwell in other cities.

Isaiah 48:2
For they call themselves after the holy city, And lean on the God of Israel; The Lord of hosts is His name


Here’s a god one. What would an uncircumcised and unclean Roman be called on sacred soil? An ABOMINATION perhaps?

Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Zion; Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city! For the uncircumcised and the unclean Shall no longer come to you.


In fact, what do many people call Israel today, "the Holy Land???" Some might ask, "have you ever been to the Holy Land?" Are they speaking only of the temple?

Forget Abomination and focus on the other word DESOLATION. What caused the desolation of Jerusalem? If you answered "The Roman Army" you would be correct.
[SUB][/SUB]
I always thought the holy place was where the sacrifical blood was offered... no?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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I always thought the holy place was where the sacrifical blood was offered... no?
That would be the alter, also a holy place:). Did anything on the alter cause the desolation? Something abominable caused Jerusalem to become desolate. Maybe Josephus, who was there, could shed some light on what caused the desolation of Jerusalem.

AND thus was Jerusalem taken, in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, on the eighth day of the month Gorpeius [Elul]. It had been taken five times before, though this was the second time of its desolation; for Shishak, the king of Egypt, and after him Antiochus, and after him Pompey, and after them Sosius and Herod, took the city, but still preserved it; but before all these, the king of Babylon conquered it, and made it desolate, one thousand four hundred and sixty-eight years and six months after it was built. But he who first built it. Was a potent man among the Canaanites, and is in our own tongue called [Melchisedek], the Righteous King, for such he really was; on which account he was [there] the first priest of God, and first built a temple [there], and called the city Jerusalem, which was formerly called Salem. However, David, the king of the Jews, ejected the Canaanites, and set-tied his own people therein. It was demolished entirely by the Babylonians, four hundred and seventy-seven years and six months after him. And from king David, who was the first of the Jews who reigned therein, to this destruction under Titus, were one thousand one hundred and seventy-nine years; but from its first building, till this last destruction, were two thousand one hundred and seventy-seven years; yet hath not its great antiquity, nor its vast riches, nor the diffusion of its nation over all the habitable earth, nor the greatness of the veneration paid to it on a religious account, been sufficient to preserve it from being destroyed. And thus ended the siege of Jerusalem.​


 

KJV1611

Senior Member
Nov 23, 2013
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That would be the alter, also a holy place:). Did anything on the alter cause the desolation? Something abominable caused Jerusalem to become desolate. Maybe Josephus, who was there, could shed some light on what caused the desolation of Jerusalem.

AND thus was Jerusalem taken, in the second year of the reign of Vespasian, on the eighth day of the month Gorpeius [Elul]. It had been taken five times before, though this was the second time of its desolation; for Shishak, the king of Egypt, and after him Antiochus, and after him Pompey, and after them Sosius and Herod, took the city, but still preserved it; but before all these, the king of Babylon conquered it, and made it desolate, one thousand four hundred and sixty-eight years and six months after it was built. But he who first built it. Was a potent man among the Canaanites, and is in our own tongue called [Melchisedek], the Righteous King, for such he really was; on which account he was [there] the first priest of God, and first built a temple [there], and called the city Jerusalem, which was formerly called Salem. However, David, the king of the Jews, ejected the Canaanites, and set-tied his own people therein. It was demolished entirely by the Babylonians, four hundred and seventy-seven years and six months after him. And from king David, who was the first of the Jews who reigned therein, to this destruction under Titus, were one thousand one hundred and seventy-nine years; but from its first building, till this last destruction, were two thousand one hundred and seventy-seven years; yet hath not its great antiquity, nor its vast riches, nor the diffusion of its nation over all the habitable earth, nor the greatness of the veneration paid to it on a religious account, been sufficient to preserve it from being destroyed. And thus ended the siege of Jerusalem.​



Well the true Holy Place that the old testament holy place was foreshadowing was the cross of Christ wasn't it? This where the ultimate sacrifice was made. Did the crucifixion of Christ cause Jerusalem to be left desolate? Not being dogmatic lol, just asking. :)
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Well the true Holy Place that the old testament holy place was foreshadowing was the cross of Christ wasn't it? This where the ultimate sacrifice was made. Did the crucifixion of Christ cause Jerusalem to be left desolate? Not being dogmatic lol, just asking. :)
Not directly. Indirectly yes, because Christ didn't come to bring peace, but a sword. A "sword" is AKA "division." He brought division between families and between the nation. See Mat 10 and 24. Those who accepted Christ as Messiah were persecuted and even ratted out by their own family members who rejected Christ. Some where arrested and others were killed. This is what Paul (and others) were doing, raiding home churches and arresting Christians using information from unbelieving family members who opposed this new way of worship. This "house divided" became Jerusalem and Israel by the time 70 AD rolled along.

The zealots in 66 AD convinced Eleazor (Chief of the Temple) to stop the sacrifices to foreign gods such as Caesar, Zeus, etc. The cessation of these regular sacrifices is what started the War with Rome and ultimately their desolation. The zealots wanted to get back to regular order under the Law. Christ ended the Law and the need for the Law. This conflict threatened the very existence of regular order whereby the thousands of Jewish priests made their living and obtained their status. This is why they put Christ to death. Christ was a clear and present danger to their way of life.

It all came to a head in 70 AD when the presence of Christ returned assisting Rome to overthrow Jerusalem. Christ helped Rome in this effort with several key divine interventions. But you would have to read Josephus to understand all of this, which so far you are unwilling to do. Don't forget God always used a pagan army to bring punishment to Israel in the past and He did so again in 70 AD.

Nothing related to Christ is abominable. Thus the abominable thing which caused the desolation of Jerusalem can only be the Roman army as Josephus affirms. Ask any Jew what caused their last desolation and I bet 90+% will say Rome. An arch in Rome, right next to the coliseum to Titus's defeat of Jerusalem still stands today in Rome. I've been there and have seen it.
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
2,097
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48


What is the city called? Holy perhaps??? Can a city be a place or a holy place? Who was Jesus quoting, Daniel? Do we see Jerusalem referred to as “holy” in Daniel? Let’s see:

Daniel 9:24
“Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city..


Any other place where Jerusalem is called "holy."

Matthew 4:5
Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple,


Matthew 27:53
and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.

Revelation 11:2
But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months
.

Nehemiah 11:1
Now the leaders of the people dwelt at Jerusalem; the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to dwell in Jerusalem, the holy city, and nine-tenths were to dwell in other cities.

Isaiah 48:2
For they call themselves after the holy city, And lean on the God of Israel; The Lord of hosts is His name


Here’s a god one. What would an uncircumcised and unclean Roman be called on sacred soil? An ABOMINATION perhaps?

Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake! Put on your strength, O Zion; Put on your beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city! For the uncircumcised and the unclean Shall no longer come to you.


In fact, what do many people call Israel today, "the Holy Land???" Some might ask, "have you ever been to the Holy Land?" Are they speaking only of the temple?

Forget Abomination and focus on the other word DESOLATION. What caused the desolation of Jerusalem? If you answered "The Roman Army" you would be correct.

What location is called the Holy of Holies. Oops!! Part of the temple. That is the only place where something called the abomination that causes desolation can take place. Your foolish attempt to make a sacred place out of a city is a self serving attempt to make your non Biblical view of eschatology take place in 70AD. You ignore all of the many prophecies that have not taken place. When was the part of the tribulation that if not shortened would kill all life on the planet? Here are the words of Jesus on the subject. Please tell me when these things happened.

Matthew 24

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.


 
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tanakh

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Dec 1, 2015
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You are ignoring that several prophecies of end times didn't happen yet. The biggest one is the abomination of desolation. Titus had a gold statue made of himself and ordered it put in the temple. That would have been it but the statue was damaged before it could be placed there. He then had a hissy fit and ordered the temple and most of Jerusalem destroyed. Josephus records the viewing of the temple complex be destroyed. It happened just as Jesus prophecied. No stone left on another one. Oops that requires a temple to desecrate. In order for that to be fulfilled a new temple will have to be built.

The Jews in Israel have been excavating in the north part of the City of David and have found underground evidence of required items used in the temple including a spring. This then is the location of the temple since there is no other spring anywhere near this site and flowing water is mandatory. In addition there is a channel for blood to flow away from an alter there. Also grooves for other items.

Your eschatology has severe problems.
Where did you get your history from? Everything I have read says it was Nero who wanted a statue of himself placed in the Jerusalem Temple but killed himself so it never came about. Titus never had a ''hissy fit'' quite the reverse He wanted the temple to be preserved but it was set on fire by Idumean mercenaries and pulled apart by them to extract the molten Gold that was in between the stones.

''The Abomination of Desolation'' was an expression used by the Jews at the time to describe any person or thing that desecrated the Temple or the City. It was not restricted to a Statue but did stem from the time that Antiochus Epiphanes set up statue of himself in the Temple and the Maccabees launched a war of resistance against his occupation of Judea.

The festival of Hanukkah,(Dedication), was celebrated in remembrance of the events and still is. Matthew used the expression in chapter 24 because his Gospel was written mainly for Jewish readership who understood this. If you turn to Luke's account he replaces it by describing Jerusalem surrounded by armies. One reason for this is believed to be that his Gospel was read mainly by Gentiles who may not have understood the meaning of this Jewish expression.

Any Temple built in Israel today would not be a Holy because the whole sacrificial system was destroyed by God using Rome to do it and replaced with the shed blood of Christ who is our Sacrifice, High Priest and King and at present enthroned and ruling from Heaven Also any Temple constructed with the blessing of the Beast would hardly be described as Holy. Wherever the old Temple stood is irrelevant. One thing is certain. It isn't there. now.

As for my eschatology I believe in the second coming. I also believe that the last days started with the first coming. If you check the NT you will find that the expression is used by the writers in a number of places not as a distant future expectation
but as a present experience. Some events leading up to the second coming haven't yet happened and contrary to popular opinion there is no certainty that they will in our lifetime. No one knows the day or the hour.
 
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Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Where did you get your history from? Everything I have read says it was Nero who wanted a statue of himself placed in the Jerusalem Temple but killed himself so it never came about. Titus never had a ''hissy fit'' quite the reverse He wanted the temple to be preserved but it was set on fire by Idumean mercenaries and pulled apart by them to extract the molten Gold that was in between the stones.

''The Abomination of Desolation'' was an expression used by the Jews at the time to describe any person or thing that desecrated the Temple or the City. It was not restricted to a Statue but did stem from the time that Antiochus Epiphanes set up statue of himself in the Temple and the Maccabees launched a war of resistance against his occupation of Judea.

The festival of Hanukkah,(Dedication), was celebrated in remembrance of the events and still is. Matthew used the expression in chapter 24 because his Gospel was written mainly for Jewish readership who understood this. If you turn to Luke's account he replaces it by describing Jerusalem surrounded by armies. One reason for this is believed to be that his Gospel was read mainly by Gentiles who may not have understood the meaning of this Jewish expression.

Any Temple built in Israel today would not be a Holy because the whole sacrificial system was destroyed by God using Rome to do it and replaced with the shed blood of Christ who is our Sacrifice, High Priest and King and at present enthroned and ruling from Heaven Also any Temple constructed with the blessing of the Beast would hardly be described as Holy. Wherever the old Temple stood is irrelevant. One thing is certain. It isn't there. now.

As for my eschatology I believe in the second coming. I also believe that the last days started with the first coming. If you check the NT you will find that the expression is used by the writers in a number of places not as a distant future expectation
but as a present experience. Some events leading up to the second coming haven't yet happened and contrary to popular opinion there is no certainty that they will in our lifetime. No one knows the day or the hour.


Go back to the drawing board with your mistaken history. Jesus prophesied that not one stone of the temple complex would be left on top of each other. Josephus wrote he watched the Roman soldiers tear it down He stated that if he hadn't seen it he would not have known where the temple complex was. Titus ordered it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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Go back to the drawing board with your mistaken history. Jesus prophesied that not one stone of the temple complex would be left on top of each other. Josephus wrote he watched the Roman soldiers tear it down He stated that if he hadn't seen it he would not have known where the temple complex was. Titus ordered it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

Please refer to The Jewish War Book VI Chapter 2 Paragraph 4

I am well aware of Christs Prophecy its a pity some on site try to ignore it.
 
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PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,232
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What location is called the Holy of Holies. Oops!! Part of the temple. That is the only place where something called the abomination that causes desolation can take place. Your foolish attempt to make a sacred place out of a city is a self serving attempt to make your non Biblical view of eschatology take place in 70AD. You ignore all of the many prophecies that have not taken place. When was the part of the tribulation that if not shortened would kill all life on the planet? Here are the words of Jesus on the subject. Please tell me when these things happened.

Matthew 24

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days
“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.



Does Christ say, "Holy of Holies" or does He just say, "Holy Place?" Geez, I cited 7 examples of the entire city being called "Holy" and a city is a place. There are more than 7 examples but I stopped figuring I proved my point.
 

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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Does Christ say, "Holy of Holies" or does He just say, "Holy Place?" Geez, I cited 7 examples of the entire city being called "Holy" and a city is a place. There are more than 7 examples but I stopped figuring I proved my point.
"The Holy Place" specifically refers to the Holy Place within the temple at Jerusalem. It does not mean "holy city". Daniel connects the sacrifice and oblation (which pertain to the temple) with the abomination of desolation:

...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate... (Dan 9:27).
 

Troubled65

Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
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Where did you get your history from? Everything I have read says it was Nero who wanted a statue of himself placed in the Jerusalem Temple but killed himself so it never came about. Titus never had a ''hissy fit'' quite the reverse He wanted the temple to be preserved but it was set on fire by Idumean mercenaries and pulled apart by them to extract the molten Gold that was in between the stones.

''The Abomination of Desolation'' was an expression used by the Jews at the time to describe any person or thing that desecrated the Temple or the City. It was not restricted to a Statue but did stem from the time that Antiochus Epiphanes set up statue of himself in the Temple and the Maccabees launched a war of resistance against his occupation of Judea.

The festival of Hanukkah,(Dedication), was celebrated in remembrance of the events and still is. Matthew used the expression in chapter 24 because his Gospel was written mainly for Jewish readership who understood this. If you turn to Luke's account he replaces it by describing Jerusalem surrounded by armies. One reason for this is believed to be that his Gospel was read mainly by Gentiles who may not have understood the meaning of this Jewish expression.

Any Temple built in Israel today would not be a Holy because the whole sacrificial system was destroyed by God using Rome to do it and replaced with the shed blood of Christ who is our Sacrifice, High Priest and King and at present enthroned and ruling from Heaven Also any Temple constructed with the blessing of the Beast would hardly be described as Holy. Wherever the old Temple stood is irrelevant. One thing is certain. It isn't there. now.

As for my eschatology I believe in the second coming. I also believe that the last days started with the first coming. If you check the NT you will find that the expression is used by the writers in a number of places not as a distant future expectation
but as a present experience. Some events leading up to the second coming haven't yet happened and contrary to popular opinion there is no certainty that they will in our lifetime. No one knows the day or the hour.
I thus far haven't found one single disagreement with your beliefs. I haven't read them all of course, but you have been blessed. So as not to flatter, Glory be to God!
Keep giving instruction. We all need it.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
6,232
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"The Holy Place" specifically refers to the Holy Place within the temple at Jerusalem. It does not mean "holy city". Daniel connects the sacrifice and oblation (which pertain to the temple) with the abomination of desolation:

...and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate... (Dan 9:27).
This is a different "sacrifice and oblation." Christ caused these to cease in the middle of week 70. Because of their many abominations, Christ will (has) make (made) the city desolate (in 70 AD) by the use of the Roman armies. God almost ALWAYS punished wicked countries by overthrowing them with other wicked countries.

Of the matter we are discussing, let scripture solve scripture:

Mat 24 (YLT):

Whenever, therefore, ye may see the abomination of the desolation, that was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever is reading let him observe)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]then those in Judea -- let them flee to the mounts

=

Luke 21 (YLT):

`And when ye may see Jerusalem surrounded by encampments, then know that come nigh did her desolation;
[SUP]21 [/SUP]then those in Judea, let them flee to the mountains; and those in her midst, let them depart out; and those in the countries, let them not come in to her...

Thus we can know with absolute certainty that the Roman armies caused the desolation of Jerusalem. We also know they first raised embankments which starved the people inside causing the worst tribulation EVER known to mankind, or ever will.
[SUB][/SUB]
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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This is a different "sacrifice and oblation." Christ caused these to cease in the middle of week 70.

If Christ caused them to cease, then He would be deemed to be the Antichrist! Do you see how absurd your conclusion is? Daniel's 70th week is a long way off, and the Antichrist will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease in the 3rd temple, which is being planned for right now.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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If Christ caused them to cease, then He would be deemed to be the Antichrist! Do you see how absurd your conclusion is? Daniel's 70th week is a long way off, and the Antichrist will cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease in the 3rd temple, which is being planned for right now.[/SIZE]
You've been brainwashed my friend. The 70 weeks were continuous and they ended a 1/2 week early at the Cross when Messiah was cut off. The term "anti-Christ" is not found anywhere in the Book of Daniel. What is found is the "(people) of the prince to come". The "prince" was Titus and his people were the Roman soldiers under him which caused the desolation and the consummation (by fire) of Jerusalem.

Ask yourself, "Who were the 70 weeks for, the entire planet or Daniel's people and holy city?" I'll copy and paste it for you in case you are stumped by this:

"Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city"


There is nothing in Daniel for us or yet to be determined.
 

abcdef

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
2,516
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You've been brainwashed my friend.


Brother PlainWord,

What kind of soap do you use when you are brainwashing someone? ha ha..


The 70 weeks were continuous
Yes


and they ended a 1/2 week early at the Cross when Messiah was cut off.
No, they continued unbroken until 37 ad when the covenant was broken by the natural branches. (no gaps)

The term "anti-Christ" is not found anywhere in the Book of Daniel.
The Antichrist throughout the Bible can be seen as the head of the gentile nations that rule or try to rule over Jerusalem and the people of Israel.

What is found is the "(people) of the prince to come". The "prince" was Titus and his people were the Roman soldiers under him which caused the desolation and the consummation (by fire) of Jerusalem.
Caesar was shown to be the Antichrist when Jerusalem fell in 70 ad., the prince.

The Antichrist that is destroyed by the brightness of His coming is not the original Caesars, but the ones that comes out of the abyss, after the 1st beast is destroyed.


Ask yourself, "Who were the 70 weeks for, the entire planet or Daniel's people and holy city?" I'll copy and paste it for you in case you are stumped by this:

"Seventy weeks are determined for thy people, and for thy holy city"


There is nothing in Daniel for us or yet to be determined.
Dan. 12:7, The verse is talking about the last vision only, not about all the different visions recorded.