The Rapture

[abcdef]

"And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but [the one] who now holds it back will continue to do so [till he] is taken out of the way. And then [the lawless one] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming."

In the scripture above, the One who is holding back i.e. restraining the full power of sin and the man of sin so that he will not be revealed until his appointed time, is the Holy Spirit through the indwelling of the church. Once the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way and the church with Him, then that lawless one will be revealed, the antichrist.

This passage is about the destruction of Jerusalem.

The Holy Spirit is removed when the Christians flee from Jerusalem and the Roman iron dragon beast armies.

The Antichrist who is revealed is Caesar. It is revealed the Rome and Caesar are the 4th beast/iron of Dan chs. 7&2.

The Antichrist is revealed in 70 ad., but the Antichrist that is destroyed by the brightness of His coming is not the Caesar of 70 ad, but the Antichrist/Caesar the comes out of the abyss at the 5th trumpet.

(He is destroyed at the 7th trumpet when the stone strikes Rev 11:15/Dan 2:34-35, and this planet ends).

The Holy Spirit being removed from Jerusalem in 70 ad is also shown as the heavens departing as a scroll in the sixth seal.

 

[abcdef]

NO, the Third Temple is part of GOD's plans for the End Times.

[video=youtube;F6prYdPPPaQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6prYdPPPaQ[/video]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hng2mVVjJs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EICu2C02sKk

The AoD temple was 70 ad.

The temple that is measured in Rev 11 is the 70 ad temple, not a future one.

 

[Ahwatukee]

so literally Holy Spirit is taken out of the way how is it psosible?????????? God is taken out of the way because the church is taken in a secret rapture mentioned nowhere in the bible.

I assure you that these are no word games, but the deeper things of God. So tell me, does the Holy Spirit indwell every believer in Christ? Who is capable of restraining the full power of sin and that man of sin from being revealed?

If the Holy Spirit, as being the restrainer, is taken out of the way, then those that He indwells would also have to be taken out of the way and that because Jesus said that the Spirit would always be with out. Therefore, when the Holy Spirit is removed, so also will the believers whom He indwells.

with this system you would have atleast 3 resurrections its impossible to come to this conclusion by just reading the bible........... matthew 24:31 and 1 thessalonains 4:16 is even a cross reference in all bibles so any reader would match that up and probably end up being a post-trib premillennial without further investigation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There are indeed three resurrections and two catching aways that fall under the banner of "first resurrection."

Jesus the first fruits of the first resurrection

Next will be the church at the Lord's appearing

The male child/144,000 in the middle of the seven

The two witnesses

The great tribulation saints after Christ returns to the earth to end the age (Rev.20:4-6)

All of these are phases or stages of the first resurrection. Many expositors make the mistake of interpreting "first resurrection" as "Only resurrection," but that is not what it says. The first resurrection has stages to it and Jesus initiated the first resurrection and the church is next.

By the way, Matt.24:31 is not a resurrection. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will send out His angels and they will be gathering living people still in their mortal bodies, who will have made it through that entire seven years. But according to the parable in Matt.13, the angels will first gather the weeds, which are those the "one's taken" and who will be taken to Armageddon and killed by the double-edged sword and who will be eaten by the birds. Then the angels will gather the wheat, which will be those great tribulation saints who, along with Israel, will repopulate the earth during the thousand year reign of Christ. Angels do not gather those who are resurrected. For they resurrect on their own and meet the Lord in the air. There is no mention of angels gathering us at the resurrection.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The AoD temple was 70 ad.

The temple that is measured in Rev 11 is the 70 ad temple, not a future one.

It is well know that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian who ruled from 81 AD to 96 AD. Therefore, John would have written Revelation well after the destruction of the temple. Consequently, he could not have been speaking about measuring the temple in 70 AD which would have already been destroyed.

By the way, do you see the results of John being told to measure the temple and to count the worshipers there? There is a reason why you don't see the results, but you should be able to figure that out, since you are so knowledgeable in these things.

 

[Ahwatukee]

This passage is about the destruction of Jerusalem.

The Holy Spirit is removed when the Christians flee from Jerusalem and the Roman iron dragon beast armies.

The Antichrist who is revealed is Caesar. It is revealed the Rome and Caesar are the 4th beast/iron of Dan chs. 7&2.

The Antichrist is revealed in 70 ad., but the Antichrist that is destroyed by the brightness of His coming is not the Caesar of 70 ad, but the Antichrist/Caesar the comes out of the abyss at the 5th trumpet.

(He is destroyed at the 7th trumpet when the stone strikes Rev 11:15/Dan 2:34-35, and this planet ends).

The Holy Spirit being removed from Jerusalem in 70 ad is also shown as the heavens departing as a scroll in the sixth seal.

Just keep watching abcdef and you will see the removal of the church, followed by the establishment of the that seven year agreement with Israel and the building of her temple. We already have the technology for the mark of the beast, with people already having chips implanted in the skin of the hands, which is according to prophecy. Everything is taking place just as we have been proclaiming to you. The next event that you will see is the Restrainer being removed and the church with him, which will be followed by the time of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

 

[abcdef]

The spirit of Christ is in me and I am in Him, the Holy Spirit is in me and Teaching me and giving me understanding, and I was born again nearly 40 years ago. My FAITH is unshakable, so all of your fine sounding arguments and worldly wisdom is meaningless to me. I see no evidence that you were ever born again. Your spirit does not minister to my spirit, like those of other born again believers do.

I am not trying to erode your faith.

I don't have to prove to you that I am born again.

I am trying to confirm your prophecy interpretations, or not confirm them.

That is, will they stand the test of scripture?

Can your understanding, stand up to the hard questions that must be asked?

Can you answer the questions?

If you can, then maybe you are right and I am wrong.

I don't judge a person's salvation, by prophecy interpretation alone, there are many more essential teachings that are more important.

Brother Ahwatukee and I disagree many times on prophecy, but on the important salvation issues, I think that we agree on them.

Think, about the questions that I ask, that is why I ask them, so that you think about the scriptures.

I am nobody, if you cannot answer questions from a nobody, how will you answer anyone?

When the Holy Spirit gives you understanding, all the worldly arguments anyone can present, holds even less water as this bucket.

Colossians 2:2-4 (NIV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments.

1 Corinthians 2:9-16 (NIV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

Friend,

The answer to the questions, is not, I have faith and you don't.

I was expecting something more.

 

[popeye]

Getting away from all the wafflers Muzungu, all you need is a proper understanding of Hebrew.

Matthew 23:38
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate

Jesus told the Jews that their House was left desolate.

Even if they do not believe it, it is do not make it any less true. The fact is though, that once your country has been razed to the ground, the majority of your countrymen unceremoniously slaughtered, and the few remaining hostages are sent abroad as slaves, even if you are a total cretin, even if you vigorously deny Christ, you still understand that a desolating event has occurred. Now when you add in that the focal point of your temple system has been torched and gutted, and there's nary a priest in sight, you understand that An Abomination has also taken place.

Practicing Orthodox Jews believe the Bible, they just don't have spiritual eyes to see Jesus. But they are in fact much more likely to have a better handle on Daniel, because they will understand Hebrew much better than Amerkins and the rest of us..

You are using as your source and proof,a people that Jesus said is blind.

Ie the blind leading you.

You forgot something,as all historicist do.

Israel is reborn as a nation.

It restarted and reset the prophetic clock.

 

[abcdef]

It is well know that John was exiled to Patmos during the reign of Domitian who ruled from 81 AD to 96 AD. Therefore, John would have written Revelation well after the destruction of the temple. Consequently, he could not have been speaking about measuring the temple in 70 AD which would have already been destroyed.

By the way, do you see the results of John being told to measure the temple and to count the worshipers there? There is a reason why you don't see the results, but you should be able to figure that out, since you are so knowledgeable in these things.

In my opinion, the measurements are not given because the temple being measured is, not perfect.

The measurement of perfection are given at the heavenly temple of Rev 21:15-17.

The temple of 70 ad became obsolete after the veil was torn.

The worshipers of the temple measured, were also lacking as they continued to try to worship under the Law.

 

[abcdef]

Just keep watching abcdef and you will see the removal of the church, followed by the establishment of the that seven year agreement with Israel and the building of her temple. We already have the technology for the mark of the beast, with people already having chips implanted in the skin of the hands, which is according to prophecy. Everything is taking place just as we have been proclaiming to you. The next event that you will see is the Restrainer being removed and the church with him, which will be followed by the time of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

My Brother,

I will meet you in the air with Jesus, this I know.

Iran will soon attack Israel and Jerusalem with the powers of Magog, and Jerusalem will fall.

Then I hope you will understand that the 7th/last trumpet is going to sound.

5th trumpet, 1929, Roman iron dragon beast comes out of the place of the dead, the abyss.

1967, Jerusalem restored to military control of Israel and the times of the gentiles end Lk 21:24.

6th trumpet, 9/11, begins the drying of the Euphrates and the way for the kings of the East, Iran.

7th trumpet, Jerusalem falls and Jesus comes for the kingdom/bride 3 1/2 days after.

 

[J7]

You are using as your source and proof,a people that Jesus said is blind.

Ie the blind leading you.

You forgot something,as all historicist do.

Israel is reborn as a nation.

It restarted and reset the prophetic clock.

No, you are simply not reading what I say with any diligence

Even if they do not believe it, it is do not make it any less true

 

[J7]

You are using as your source and proof,a people that Jesus said is blind.

Ie the blind leading you.

You forgot something,as all historicist do.

Israel is reborn as a nation.

It restarted and reset the prophetic clock.

Why did God incessantly punish Israel?

Because he is a sadist?

No, because he wanted them to get the message

You ask someone nicely, but if they are impervious to reason, then you have to use the rod.

God's punishments on Judah make no sense whatsoever if Judah does not even realize it is being punished

 

[J7]

Leviticus 26:18
And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seventimes more for your sins.

God punishes Israel to get them to wake up

 

[popeye]

Yes, he did prophecy of the destruction of the temple Mz
Yes, AD70 was the 2nd AoD - the first was Antiochus Epiphanes

Why do Jews agree with it but Christians not? I am guessing because the Jews had first hand experience which has been communicated orally for centuries. These things were not fun to live through. Epiphanes had several Jews fried to death in a giant pan for observing Mosaic Law.

Modern day Christians eat so much corn syrup garbage they can barely remember two days ago, let alone centuries back.

Ok,it seems you are hisoricist.
That is the basis of my reply.

Historicist simply does not work.

 

[J7]

Jesus is a historical figure

 

[valiant]

I assure you that these are no word games, but the deeper things of God.

So deep that you fall into a hole

So tell me, does the Holy Spirit indwell every believer in Christ?

Of course, but He is not the restrainer of Satan and his minions. That is the restraining angel (Rev.9.1-2; 20.1)

Who is capable of restraining the full power of sin and that man of sin from being revealed?

The restraining angel?

If the Holy Spirit, as being the restrainer, is taken out of the way,

But He isn't the restrainer and He isn't taken out of the way'

then those that He indwells would also have to be taken out of the way and that because Jesus said that the Spirit would always be with out. Therefore, when the Holy Spirit is removed, so also will the believers whom He indwells.

But as the Holy Spirit isn't being removed neither will Christians. He as been present since creation. LOL how can GOD be removed?

There are indeed three resurrections and two catching aways that fall under the banner of "first resurrection."

LOL that's five. And no one discovered them til the 19 th century,

Jesus the first fruits of the first resurrection

And with Him in a spiritual resurrection are all the saints (Eph 2.5-6; Col 3.1; John 5.25).

Next will be the church at the Lord's appearing

That is the general physical resurrection (John 5.28-29; 1Cor 15)

The male child/144,000 in the middle of the seven

The male child is Jesus, They represent the church.

The two witnesses

the church leaders.

The great tribulation saints after Christ returns to the earth to end the age (Rev.20:4-6)

where does it mention returning to earth? They are Christ and His saints ruling over the earth,

All of these are phases or stages of the first resurrection.

LOL I prefer Jesus version (John 5.28-29) and the Spirit's version (1 Cor 15)

Many expositors make the mistake of interpreting "first resurrection" as "Only resurrection," but that is not what it says.

It was first in time. Jesus rose, then His saints were joined with Him in a spiritual resurrection.

The first resurrection has stages to it and Jesus initiated the first resurrection and the church is next.

LOL FIVE stages determined by YOU.

By the way, Matt.24:31 is not a resurrection. When the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, He will send out His angels and they will be gathering living people still in their mortal bodies, who will have made it through that entire seven years.

He will call out the risen saints and combine them with the living saints (1 Thess 4.13 on). It is the resurrection at the end of the world.

. But according to the parable in Matt.13, the angels will first gather the weeds, which are those the "one's taken" and who will be taken to Armageddon and killed by the double-edged sword and who will be eaten by the birds.

The parable does not give an order. It merely describes the 'wicked' and 'the righteous' being divided up. There is no suggestion of Armageddon or of bird's eating them.

Then the angels will gather the wheat, which will be those great tribulation saints

and no one knew til the 19th century? Funny how Jesus gave the impression that it was the same judgement as the others?

who, along with Israel, will repopulate the earth during the thousand year reign of Christ

.

Jesus forgot to mention that LOL But then He had never heard of a millennium

Angels do not gather those who are resurrected. For they resurrect on their own and meet the Lord in the air. There is no mention of angels gathering us at the resurrection.

LOL except in Matthew 13 and parallels. They resurrect on their own? The angels aren't interested? You must be joking.

 

[valiant]

You forgot something,as all historicist do.

Israel is reborn as a nation.

But as a nation in total unbelief and not relying on God but on their armaments. And it is questionable how many really are Israel. I prefer the Israel that responded to God after the resurrection and accepted Gentiles into one new body. (Eph 2.11-22; 1 Peter 2.9).

It restarted and reset the prophetic clock.

LOL IN UNBELIEF?

 

[valiant]

Jesus is a historical figure

You mustn't tell them that. They'll never believe you

 

[Issachar92]

So you are saying the Jews lie about their history? Holocaust...popcorn.

You need to explain why in your view the AoD = Millenial Kingdom, NJ, etc

Dont go there I had family members die in the holocaust.

And this is why AoD = Millennial Kingdom, NK, etc : When you see the AoD you know the end is near and son of man is coming in the clouds, now certainly this hasn't happened. And its been more than 1000 years.

Why do I have to explain things like this? This is like alphabets come on now

 

[J7]

Dont go there I had family members die in the holocaust.

And this is why AoD = Millennial Kingdom, NK, etc : When you see the AoD you know the end is near and son of man is coming in the clouds, now certainly this hasn't happened. And its been more than 1000 years.

Why do I have to explain things like this? This is like alphabets come on now

I am not going there, but you went there.
You said Jews version of History cannot be trusted.

Learn to think before you speak

 

[J7]

And this is why AoD = Millennial Kingdom, NK, etc : When you see the AoD you know the end is near and son of man is coming in the clouds, now certainly this hasn't happened. And its been more than 1000 years.

Where does the Bible say this?