The Rapture

[shrume]

Peter uses almost exactly the same language as Josephus which proves the way they talked and described things back then. The literal earth and all of its elements do not burn up, at least not from this passage. The fire from the temple and city was so big that Josephus records that the "skies were on fire."

The "earth" often times refers to Israel. Old Israel was destroyed. The righteous fled and were protected in Pella. They returned after the Romans left after Masada in 73 AD. For the next 1,000 years, Jerusalem was a predominantly Christian city living in peace except for 2-3 occasions. See Isa 65.

Peter had no concept of the periodic table. The only elements he was aware of were, fire, air, earth and water.

Hello, PlainWord.
Do you have an example of that?

 

[shrume]

READY TO GET BLOWN AWAY??

Okay, now let's take a deeper dive into the language used in their day. An important word to understand is "works." Works is not "deeds" as most of us might think but rather "works" was the temple itself.

Again, quoting Josephus:

WHILE the holy house was on fire, every thing was plundered that came to hand, and ten thousand of those that were caught were slain; nor was there a commiseration of any age, or any reverence of gravity, but children, and old men, and profane persons, and priests were all slain in the same manner; so that this war went round all sorts of men, and brought them to destruction, and as well those that made supplication for their lives, as those that defended themselves by fighting. The flame was also carried a long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that were slain; and because this hill was high, and the works at the temple were very great, one would have thought the whole city had been on fire. Nor can one imagine any thing either greater or more terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamor of the seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword.

So now look again at 2 Peter 3:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up...

Translation? The "earth" is Jerusalem and the "works" are the temple. Therefore Peter is telling us that the city and the temple will be destroyed with fervent heat. Josephus also tells us that its destruction will be with a "GREAT NOISE" just as Peter predicted.

Another key word in understanding much of prophesy including 2 Pet 3 is "earth."

Isa 62: And give Him no rest till He establishes And till He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Lam 2: How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earth The beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.

All who pass by clap their hands at you; They hiss and shake their heads At the daughter of Jerusalem: “Is this the city that is called ‘The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth’?”

While we are at it, let's see if "heaven" is also related to "earth" and "Jerusalem." Heaven can also mean sky.

1 Chr 21: Then David lifted his eyes and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, having in his hand a drawn sword stretched out over Jerusalem. So David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell on their faces.

Let's not forget Gal 4:

but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

So when Jerusalem was utterly destroyed in 70 AD, the "heavens and earth" passed away.

I have never come across anyone so convinced Preterism is true.

I think you're in for a big surprise one of these days.

 

[Burninglight]

[VIDEO=youtube;5RUIY5t_cRI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RUIY5t_cRI[/VIDEO]

This guy is a false teacher. Why are you putting him up there? He called Obama the Messiah.

 

[shrume]

Biblical History started 6000 years ago as far as we can tell. The Scripture states that one day is as a thousand years and one thousand years as one day to the Lord. God creation took 6 six days and on the 7 day He rested. Could the last thousand years be the rule and reign of Christ with the saints where he rested?

Indeed it could.

 

[KJV1611]

Can anyone reconcile the idea of a literal Millennium with Christ ruling in Jerusalem with Peters statement in 2 Peter 3:10-13..

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise and the elements shall melt with fervent heat the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conversation and godliness looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of god wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nervertheless we according to his promise look for a new heavens and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Here are three verses that directly says the earth will last forever and there are many of verses that infer the earth will last forever. 2 Peter 3:10-13 is not talking about the literal earth.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 KJV
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Deuteronomy 4:40 KJV
Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Psalm 37:29 KJV
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

 

[Burninglight]

Indeed it could.

It is what I am leaning to until I see something more convincing.

 

[Burninglight]

Here are three verses that directly says the earth will last forever and there are many of verses that infer the earth will last forever. 2 Peter 3:10-13 is not talking about the literal earth.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 KJV
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Deuteronomy 4:40 KJV
Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Psalm 37:29 KJV
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Imagine how beautiful the earth will be when God renews it.

 

[KJV1611]

READY TO GET BLOWN AWAY??

Okay, now let's take a deeper dive into the language used in their day. An important word to understand is "works." Works is not "deeds" as most of us might think but rather "works" was the temple itself.

Again, quoting Josephus:

WHILE the holy house was on fire, every thing was plundered that came to hand, and ten thousand of those that were caught were slain; nor was there a commiseration of any age, or any reverence of gravity, but children, and old men, and profane persons, and priests were all slain in the same manner; so that this war went round all sorts of men, and brought them to destruction, and as well those that made supplication for their lives, as those that defended themselves by fighting. The flame was also carried a long way, and made an echo, together with the groans of those that were slain; and because this hill was high, and the works at the temple were very great, one would have thought the whole city had been on fire. Nor can one imagine any thing either greater or more terrible than this noise; for there was at once a shout of the Roman legions, who were marching all together, and a sad clamor of the seditious, who were now surrounded with fire and sword.

So now look again at 2 Peter 3:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up...

Translation? The "earth" is Jerusalem and the "works" are the temple. Therefore Peter is telling us that the city and the temple will be destroyed with fervent heat. Josephus also tells us that its destruction will be with a "GREAT NOISE" just as Peter predicted.

Another key word in understanding much of prophesy including 2 Pet 3 is "earth."

Isa 62: And give Him no rest till He establishes And till He makes Jerusalem a praise in the earth.

Lam 2: How the Lord has covered the daughter of Zion With a cloud in His anger! He cast down from heaven to the earth The beauty of Israel, And did not remember His footstool In the day of His anger.

All who pass by clap their hands at you; They hiss and shake their heads At the daughter of Jerusalem: “Is this the city that is called ‘The perfection of beauty, The joy of the whole earth’?”

While we are at it, let's see if "heaven" is also related to "earth" and "Jerusalem." Heaven can also mean sky.

1 Chr 21: Then David lifted his eyes and saw the angel of the Lord standing between earth and heaven, having in his hand a drawn sword stretched out over Jerusalem. So David and the elders, clothed in sackcloth, fell on their faces.

Let's not forget Gal 4:

but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.

So when Jerusalem was utterly destroyed in 70 AD, the "heavens and earth" passed away.

"Works is not "deeds" as most of us might think but rather "works" was the temple itself." That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life lol.

The works in the temple was the building material and furniture. If Josephus would have said the FURNITURE in the temple was very great, would that mean that furniture = the temple? You need to rethink that one.

 

[KJV1611]

Yes Israel is wicked. No one is denying it, Lord brought em back before its gon happen again Romans 11:25-26

Romans 11:26 KJV
And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Do you think that verse means that all flesh descendant of Israel will be saved? I'm not Jewish but I am of Israel and I'm Abraham's seed too. I'm a part of the Israel mentioned in Romans 11:25-26.

So then, ALL Israel, the ones who are ethnic SAVED Jews AND people like me, SAVED non-ethnic Jews shall be saved.... does that make sense?

 

[KJV1611]

You got that 100% backwards.

I realize you don't agree and that's fine.

 

[KJV1611]

You got that 100% backwards.

Revelation 6:13 KJV
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Do you think the literal stars are going to literally fall to earth? Try to keep the comment to just this question.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Here are three verses that directly says the earth will last forever and there are many of verses that infer the earth will last forever. 2 Peter 3:10-13 is not talking about the literal earth.

Ecclesiastes 1:4 KJV
One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.

Deuteronomy 4:40 KJV
Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.

Psalm 37:29 KJV
The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Hey KJV1611,

Regarding this earth lasting forever, what do you think about the following:

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One who sat on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them."

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

 

[VCO]

Just a a statement for anyone else who casts doubt on my salvation. I gave my life to Christ at a Baptist Church in 1971 and undertook water Baptism on Easter Sunday 1972. My position held with regard to the last days was Pre Trib for a number of years until I realised it was a false one. I now believe that the Rapture happens at the seventh trumpet Rev 11:15-19 which is numerically the last mentioned in Revelation and called the last trump by Paul in 1 Cor 15:50

The Last Trump has been known in ISRAEL for thousands of years. You would do well to Study the Feast of Trumpets to find out what the Last Trump Really is:

[h=2]~ Yom Teruah ~[/h]
[h=4]The Feast of Trumpets is also known as Yom Teruah which literally means the “Day of Blowing”. This is the only Feast Day when the shofar is blown during the service 100 times! They are blown in a set pattern of 3 different sounds, blown 3 times each for a total of 9 blasts. This series of patterns is repeated 11 times for a total of 99 blasts. The 100th blast is set apart and this is the blast that is known as the “Last Trump”![/h]http://www.elshaddaiministries.us/messages/rosh_hashanah.php
[h=4]

[/h]
https://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/121


IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUMPET JUDGEMENTS.

 

[KJV1611]

Hey KJV1611,

Regarding this earth lasting forever, what do you think about the following:

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One who sat on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them."

"Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

Let's start with heaven first because I understand it better.

John 3:13 KJV
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Which heaven is Revelation talking about, the heaven where Jesus came down from or the heaven he was in while he was on the earth... I don't know which one it is, what do you think?

 

[VCO]

Revelation 6:13 KJV
And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Do you think the literal stars are going to literally fall to earth? Try to keep the comment to just this question.

6:13 stars of heaven fell. The word stars can refer to any celestial body, large or small, and is not limited to normal English usage. The best explanation is a massive asteroid or meteor shower. late figs. Winter figs that grow without the protection of leaves and are easily blown from the tree.

The MacArthur Bible Commentary.

When you understand that at the time John wrote Revelation, STARS meant any Celestial Body; YES I think it is VERY LITERAL. I also believe it will be a WAY BIGGER Asteroid Shower than we have ever experienced. WAY BIGGER in NUMBER and IN SIZE, meaning a GREAT NUMBER OF THEM WILL ACTUALLY HIT THE EARTH.

 

[KJV1611]

The Last Trump has been known in ISRAEL for thousands of years. You would do well to Study the Feast of Trumpets to find out what the Last Trump Really is:


[/h]
https://www.levitt.tv/media/watch/121


IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TRUMPET JUDGEMENTS.

Here is an old testament foreshadow of the last trump. The 2 trumpets below were used to call the assembly and for the journey's they went on. The first trumpet was the old testament, the second or LAST TRUMP was the new testament.

Numbers 10:2 KJV
Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps.

The old testament and new testament calls the lost person to Christ, the collective name of those called out is called the ASSEMBLY of beleivers aka the church. The two trumpets are used by the church for their journey in this life... the last trump has been sounding for quite a while.

 

[KJV1611]

When you understand that at the time John wrote Revelation, STARS meant any Celestial Body; YES I think it is VERY LITERAL. I also believe it will be a WAY BIGGER Asteroid Shower than we have ever experienced. WAY BIGGER in NUMBER and IN SIZE, meaning a GREAT NUMBER OF THEM WILL ACTUALLY HIT THE EARTH.

So you're saying that it's not really stars as we know them today, but asteroids.

 

[KJV1611]

Let's start with heaven first because I understand it better.

John 3:13 KJV
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Which heaven is Revelation talking about, the heaven where Jesus came down from or the heaven he was in while he was on the earth... I don't know which one it is, what do you think?

Now that I've thought about some more, I think the heaven that passes away in Revelation is the heaven that Jesus was in while he was on earth because it sounds like heavenly Jerusalem, when she comes down, is actually the heaven where God resides coming down to earth.

 

[KJV1611]

Now that I've thought about some more, I think the heaven that passes away in Revelation is the heaven that Jesus was in while he was on earth because it sounds like heavenly Jerusalem, when she comes down, is actually the heaven where God resides coming down to earth.

I'm sure that's right because the heaven that Jesus was in while he was on earth had LEAVEN and TARES in it!

As for what the 2 different types of earth are, I don't think I know the answer to that one... it is interesting though and I would like to find out.

 

[Bladerunner]

Matthew 24 31 [FONT=&]And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

[/FONT][FONT=&]This is the Church. It is no-one else. It can be no-one else.

Anybody who says it is not the Church, ('because that does not fit in with my hopelessly convoluted theology'), needs....I don't know,
a lobotomy probably.[/FONT]

I do believe that you got something right..... Yes it is the Church in Heaven, Not on earth...or not in the elevator coming up to meet him.