The REAL Abomination that Maketh Desolate (1)

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nathan3

Guest
#21
Now, I want you to answer this very carefully.

Where in Dan 9:27 does it say WHAT the abomination of desolation is? Not interested in any other verses ANYWHERE else in Scripture. Just 9:27. Explain to me how you know this JUST BY USING 9:27.
If your not interested in any verses ANYWHERE in scripture,,,,, then your not interested in the chapter where Christ quoted Daniel ( the desolator )
and made it part of the new testament. So your always going to come up short, if you don't listen to Christ teaching on this. So what are you trying to do? because your only going to run in a circle.
 
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jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#22
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Twisting prophetic Scripture (as Therapon has done in his op) to make it fit your own personal opinion is a VERY grevious sin in the eyes of the Lord. Rev 22v18,19.

So maybe you want to direct Matt 12v36,37 towards him! :p
 
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Therapon

Guest
#23
Twisting prophetic Scripture (as Therapon has done in his op)
If you think Scripture was twisted in part (1), just wait until you read Part (2), LOL.

The inability of some to open mindedly look at Scripture in ways that depart from their unsupportable traditions is the main reason I'm not on this forum much anymore. For your edification, there is a monumental difference between twisting Scripture and seeing God's prophetic Word from a historic perspective.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#24
If you think Scripture was twisted in part (1), just wait until you read Part (2), LOL.

The inability of some to open mindedly look at Scripture in ways that depart from their unsupportable traditions is the main reason I'm not on this forum much anymore. For your edification, there is a monumental difference between twisting Scripture and seeing God's prophetic Word from a historic perspective.
You had first to twist the prophetic Scripture before you could manipulate it into a historical sense!

Whatever you teach here upon earth will have to be answered for before the Lord Jesus at His Second Coming, as I'm sure you know! :p
 
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doulos

Guest
#25
The context of that Scripture is "days" not making one day = one year!

Any idiot with a bit of commonsense can see that, or do you also fail to see it! :p
Augustine (AD 430)
Nahawendi (Jewish) (AD 8-9th century)
Jehoram (AD 10th century)
Abraham bar Hiyya (Jewish) (AD 1136)
Arnold of Villanova AD (1292)
Tichonius (AD 380)
Joachim of Floris (AD 1202)
John Wycliffe (AD c.1379)
Nicholas of Cusa (AD c.1452)
Martin Luther (AD 1522)
Phillip Melanchthon (AD 1543)
Johan Funck (AD 1558)
James I of England (AD 1600)

So would you say the list of people above had no common sense? Or how about those quoted below would you say they had no common sense?

In 1569, the great Anabaptist theologian, Thieleman van Braght, wrote the following in Martyrs Mirror, pages 21-24: 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days, which reckoned according to prophetic language means as many years… let it be reckoned as it may, say we, as a very long period of time.'


Two hundred years later, Matthew Henry, in his 'Commentary of the Whole Bible', came to the same conclusion (Vol VI, page 1157 column 1, para. 2): '….if the beginning of that interval could be ascertained, this number of prophetic days, taking a day for a year, would give us a prospect of when the end might be.'"


Isaac Newton - "She is nourished by the merchants of the earth, three times or years and an half, or 42 months, or 1260 days: and in these Prophecies days are put for years." - Observations Upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St.a John - Chapter 3


Also Jamison, Faucett & Brown commentary - "..... in the wilderness 'a thousand two hundred and threescore days.' In the wider sense, we may either adopt the year-day theory of 1260 years..."

I could add more names to the list and quotes above that believed a day = a year in many of the prophetic Scriptures, but why bother after all according to you even an idiot has enough common sense to see that a day can't possibly be = to a year in many of the prophetic Scriptures.

Nothing personal friend but I think there words carry a little more weight then yours.
 
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Therapon

Guest
#26
Whatever you teach here upon earth will have to be answered for before the Lord Jesus at His Second Coming, as I'm sure you know!
Right, and it is to the Lord that I most gladly answer because He can see my heart.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#27
beware of this FALSE TEACHING PPL.

the OP is willing to knowingly distort everything to (TRY TO) make this work....it DOES not work.
a 7 year old remotely familiar with the Gospels will know this is sleight-of-hand and all wrong.

ellis, your magic week; and your Dual Covenant teaches another gospel (there is no other). it's heresy.
you don't care though.
 
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Therapon

Guest
#28
beware of this FALSE TEACHING PPL.

the OP is willing to knowingly distort everything to (TRY TO) make this work....it DOES not work.
a 7 year old remotely familiar with the Gospels will know this is sleight-of-hand and all wrong.

ellis, your magic week; and your Dual Covenant teaches another gospel (there is no other). it's heresy.
you don't care though.
Zone, you have been beating on that broken drum for years. You are wrong, but I'm not going to get into an unending spitting contest with you about it. Instead, I am once again putting you on IGNORE! So good-bye, I'll have peace and you can attack my posts without the inconvenience of me disputing you.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
#29
Zone, you have been beating on that broken drum for years. You are wrong, but I'm not going to get into an unending spitting contest with you about it. Instead, I am once again putting you on IGNORE! So good-bye, I'll have peace and you can attack my posts without the inconvenience of me disputing you.
i won't attack your posts.
i'll counter them with truth....from the scriptures.
anyone can do it.

~

the OP's theory is a crafty misuse of numerous passages, forcing them to say something they do not.
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#30
The context of that Scripture is "days" not making one day = one year!

Any idiot with a bit of commonsense can see that, or do you also fail to see it! :p
For starters...

[FONT=&quot]Num 14:34[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] and ye shall know my breach of promise.

[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Eze 4:5-6[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] them, lie on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]These two items gives me my authority.[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is done NOT using the literal weeks as days in Dan 9:24-27 but rather as weeks of YEARS!!! So, who's the idiot? The one without common sense? Just a pun on words you used! No harm intended. You pick and choose when you want to use days as day or days as years, whichever works best for your doctrine.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#31
beware of this FALSE TEACHING PPL.

the OP is willing to knowingly distort everything to (TRY TO) make this work....it DOES not work.
a 7 year old remotely familiar with the Gospels will know this is sleight-of-hand and all wrong.

ellis, your magic week; and your Dual Covenant teaches another gospel (there is no other). it's heresy.
you don't care though.
So, if you carry all the answers, do you care to share them with us? We would like to know EVERYTHING as to exactly who the two witnesses are and when we will see them. Anything else that we simply don't understand for we are apparently not wise!
 
Sep 6, 2013
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#32
Among other problems, there's the simple one that the Crucifixion did not occur in 33 AD.
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#33
If your not interested in any verses ANYWHERE in scripture,,,,, then your not interested in the chapter where Christ quoted Daniel ( the desolator )
and made it part of the new testament. So your always going to come up short, if you don't listen to Christ teaching on this. So what are you trying to do? because your only going to run in a circle.
The point I'm making is that Dan 9:27 NEVER SAYS what the abomination of desolation is, it only says WHERE it is.

Then, tell me where in the book of Daniel it tells us what it is.
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#34
beware of this FALSE TEACHING PPL.

the OP is willing to knowingly distort everything to (TRY TO) make this work....it DOES not work.
a 7 year old remotely familiar with the Gospels will know this is sleight-of-hand and all wrong.

ellis, your magic week; and your Dual Covenant teaches another gospel (there is no other). it's heresy.
you don't care though.
I will watch out for your false teaching. Thank you for that needed advice!:(
 
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doulos

Guest
#35
Among other problems, there's the simple one that the Crucifixion did not occur in 33 AD.
What year was the crucifixion and how do you prove it?
 
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nathan3

Guest
#36
The point I'm making is that Dan 9:27 NEVER SAYS what the abomination of desolation is, it only says WHERE it is.

Then, tell me where in the book of Daniel it tells us what it is.
The very fact, your told its the the abomination of desolation ,tells you who it is. It is Satan's name. You have to take in the whole chapter of Matthew24 Mark 13 and the side view of Luke 21 to see .
Among II Thess 2: A study of these scriptures slowly, in the king James a recommend, will help. Use a strong concordance to look up these Greek names Given for the angel of the bottomless bit in Revelation 9.
 
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danschance

Guest
#37
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#38
The very fact, your told its the the abomination of desolation ,tells you who it is. It is Satan's name. You have to take in the whole chapter of Matthew24 Mark 13 and the side view of Luke 21 to see .
Among II Thess 2: A study of these scriptures slowly, in the king James a recommend, will help. Use a strong concordance to look up these Greek names Given for the angel of the bottomless bit in Revelation 9.
If you are correct, tell me where it says the abomination of desolation IS Satan. I'd love to see that. I read it many times and it's not there. The only reference that is there that says where to go to find out what the abomination of desolation is will be found in Daniel.

I ask yet once again. Where in Daniel does it say WHAT the abomination of desolation is?
 
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Saved_Forever

Guest
#39
Back in 1978, I was asked to teach a seminar on Daniel & Revelation. While doing so, the thought crossed my mind, “What if the 1290 and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 are not the first or last half of the great tribulation, and what if Dan 9:27 isn’t about a seven-year tribulation.”

While in Bible college (class of ‘54), I’d studied all the usual explanations about the 69 weeks of Daniel 9:24-26 (from the decree of Artaxerxes I to the cross), but the way most theologians explained them, you had to fudge the numbers to make them fit recorded history. Then I remembered from the book of Jubilees found at Qumran, that for religious reasons, Old Testament Jews used a somewhat complicated 19 year calender, each year of which had only 360 days. Since Daniel was an Old Testament book, it occurred to me that the Lord may have used a calendar with which Daniel was familiar for the 69 weeks, a year of 360 days, so I tried it.

Bingo, it was exactly 483 Hebrew (476 solar) years from the decree of Artaxerxes 1 (444BC-445BC) to the cross! (32-34AD).

So we could now prove those 69 weeks were not weeks of days, but weeks of years. Then I remembered that the prophet Ezekiel (who lived at the same time as Daniel) had already written that prophetic days should be understood as years . . .

Ezekiel 4:5-6 “For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. “

Maybe prophetic days elsewhere in Scripture should also be understood as years. I then asked myself, “If the 69 weeks aren’t literal 24 hour days, maybe the 1290 and 1335 days of Dan 12:11-12 aren’t literal days either. We don’t have the authority to arbitrarily decide that days in Dan 12 are literal do we, particularly if they aren’t literal in Dan 9. Hadn’t God had just proven a day for a year in Dan 9:27? I looked at Dan 12:11 again with that idea in mind:

Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.”

Years possibly, but to which abolition of temple sacrifices might God be referring? I just had to try for a fit.

Historically, sacrifices were abolished four times. Once before Daniel, once during Daniel’s lifetime, then in 168 B.C. by Antiochus epiphanies, and in 70 A.D. when Titus the Roman sacked Jerusalem. Since sacrifices were indeed abolished during Daniel’s time, wasn’t it reasonable to conclude that the Lord was telling Daniel about an abolition of sacrifices he knew all about, an event to which Daniel could relate?

The temple was destroyed in 586 B.C. + 1290 Hebrew (1271.5 solar) years = 685.5 A.D.. That’s when the Muslim Califah Abd el Malik Ibn Marwan started clearing the temple mount. But the construction of the Islamic Dome of the Rock didn’t begin for another three years, so I thought there ought to be a better fit.

I went back to Scripture. In Jeremiah 41:5 we find that temple sacrifices continued AFTER the temple was burned, so when were they abolished? In Jeremiah 52:30 we find that Nebuzaradan, Captain of Nebuchadnezzar’s guard, took the final captivity back to Babylon three years AFTER the temple was destroyed, in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, 583 B.C..

Bingo! 583 B.C. + 1290 Hebrew (1271.5 solar) years = 688.5 A.D., and that, my friends, is the exact year when the Muslims started to build a memorial to Muhammad, The Dome of the Rock, on the temple mount of God Most Holy.

And what did the Bible call it? “The Abomination that maketh desolate!”
Where's part two? I'm growing impatient!!!:cool:
 
Feb 9, 2010
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#40
The abomination of desolation will occur when the antichrist rules which will be the last three and one half years of the tribulation which he will cause craft to prosper on earth and spread that throughout the world.

The Bible says the prince to come will cause this to happen who is the antichrist and he will come from the Roman Empire who will have dominion during that time in which Europe and Caucasian led nations will be his power base which will pull all nations governments together.