The REAL Abomination that Maketh Desolate (1)

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T

Therapon

Guest
#1
Back in 1978, I was asked to teach a seminar on Daniel & Revelation. While doing so, the thought crossed my mind, “What if the 1290 and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 are not the first or last half of the great tribulation, and what if Dan 9:27 isn’t about a seven-year tribulation.”

While in Bible college (class of ‘54), I’d studied all the usual explanations about the 69 weeks of Daniel 9:24-26 (from the decree of Artaxerxes I to the cross), but the way most theologians explained them, you had to fudge the numbers to make them fit recorded history. Then I remembered from the book of Jubilees found at Qumran, that for religious reasons, Old Testament Jews used a somewhat complicated 19 year calender, each year of which had only 360 days. Since Daniel was an Old Testament book, it occurred to me that the Lord may have used a calendar with which Daniel was familiar for the 69 weeks, a year of 360 days, so I tried it.

Bingo, it was exactly 483 Hebrew (476 solar) years from the decree of Artaxerxes 1 (444BC-445BC) to the cross! (32-34AD).

So we could now prove those 69 weeks were not weeks of days, but weeks of years. Then I remembered that the prophet Ezekiel (who lived at the same time as Daniel) had already written that prophetic days should be understood as years . . .

Ezekiel 4:5-6 “For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. “

Maybe prophetic days elsewhere in Scripture should also be understood as years. I then asked myself, “If the 69 weeks aren’t literal 24 hour days, maybe the 1290 and 1335 days of Dan 12:11-12 aren’t literal days either. We don’t have the authority to arbitrarily decide that days in Dan 12 are literal do we, particularly if they aren’t literal in Dan 9. Hadn’t God had just proven a day for a year in Dan 9:27? I looked at Dan 12:11 again with that idea in mind:

Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.”

Years possibly, but to which abolition of temple sacrifices might God be referring? I just had to try for a fit.

Historically, sacrifices were abolished four times. Once before Daniel, once during Daniel’s lifetime, then in 168 B.C. by Antiochus epiphanies, and in 70 A.D. when Titus the Roman sacked Jerusalem. Since sacrifices were indeed abolished during Daniel’s time, wasn’t it reasonable to conclude that the Lord was telling Daniel about an abolition of sacrifices he knew all about, an event to which Daniel could relate?

The temple was destroyed in 586 B.C. + 1290 Hebrew (1271.5 solar) years = 685.5 A.D.. That’s when the Muslim Califah Abd el Malik Ibn Marwan started clearing the temple mount. But the construction of the Islamic Dome of the Rock didn’t begin for another three years, so I thought there ought to be a better fit.

I went back to Scripture. In Jeremiah 41:5 we find that temple sacrifices continued AFTER the temple was burned, so when were they abolished? In Jeremiah 52:30 we find that Nebuzaradan, Captain of Nebuchadnezzar’s guard, took the final captivity back to Babylon three years AFTER the temple was destroyed, in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, 583 B.C..

Bingo! 583 B.C. + 1290 Hebrew (1271.5 solar) years = 688.5 A.D., and that, my friends, is the exact year when the Muslims started to build a memorial to Muhammad, The Dome of the Rock, on the temple mount of God Most Holy.

And what did the Bible call it? “The Abomination that maketh desolate!”
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#2
Welcome back. I couldn't agree more. Fits like a glove!
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#3
Interesting, Im not much in understanding such, but always did question the dome of the rock as being this.

God bless
pickles
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#4
Act 7
[SUP]48 [/SUP]“However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:

[SUP]49 [/SUP]‘Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the Lord,
Or what is the place of My rest?
[SUP]50 [/SUP]Has My hand not made all these things?’
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
the abomination which makes desolate must be sitting in the temple. in other words, there must be a temple and holy of holys to have an abomination. considering the dome is not IN the temple. no jew in daniels day nor in any of the prophets day would consider it an abomination.

not to mention you now have the great tribulation. which Jesus himself said would be far greater than the world has ever seen before or after, a time so great he will cut it short because if he did not, no flesh would survive (all life on earth would be destroyed) going on for well over a thousand years now.. this does not fit scripture either.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#6
Why would the Dome of the Rock be any more abominable than the Roman worship of Jupiter, or whatever, in the same place hundreds of years earlier?

Also, how could the Dome of the Rock be the abomination that makes desolate when Jerusalem and the temple were already completely desolated in 70 AD?

And why would the ceasing of animal sacrifices be considered an abomination, when the offering of animal sacrifices after Christ was sacrificed an abomination itself?

And really, what has ever been more abominable than the murder of the son of GOD?
 

Kreation

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2013
169
4
0
#7
Sometimes biblical verses have multiple reasons. Especially prophecies.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#8
the abomination which makes desolate must be sitting in the temple. in other words, there must be a temple and holy of holys to have an abomination. considering the dome is not IN the temple. no jew in daniels day nor in any of the prophets day would consider it an abomination.
Daniel tells us the abomination would be on a wing of the temple, not in the inner sanctuary called the holy of holies. Christ only said the abomination would stand in a holy place. The temple mount is a holy place, the whole city of Jerusalem is a holy place. The DOR stands in the court of the Gentiles which is in the holy city so it does match the Scriptural requirment of being in a holy place per Christ’s words. It does stand in the location of the court of the Gentiles so it also meets Daniel’s requirement that it stand of the wing of the temple.
not to mention you now have the great tribulation. which Jesus himself said would be far greater than the world has ever seen before or after, a time so great he will cut it short because if he did not, no flesh would survive (all life on earth would be destroyed) going on for well over a thousand years now.. this does not fit scripture either.
Remember Christ referred us back to Daniel to gain an understanding of the AOD. The book of Daniel was written to the Jews (the only elect at that time). Many historians say that if the U.S. had not entered the war it would have lasted much longer. In addition many of those same historians also believe had the U.S. not entered the war when it did the Jews would have been eliminated.
 
D

doulos

Guest
#9
Why would the Dome of the Rock be any more abominable than the Roman worship of Jupiter, or whatever, in the same place hundreds of years earlier?
Construction of the temple of Jupiter was never completed as a result of natural disasters (did God have a hand in that? Sure He did). But the DOR (dome of the rock) was completed with all of it’s blasphemous inscriptions declaring God has no Son and that blasphemous building has been standing for 1400 years and still stands today. As a result to this day neither Jews or Christians are allowed to worship on the temple mount as a result.

Also, how could the Dome of the Rock be the abomination that makes desolate when Jerusalem and the temple were already completely desolated in 70 AD?
The events of 70AD were certainiy norrific and while it is true a building that Christ had declared desolate almost 40 years earlier was destroyed and roughly a million Jews were murdered, few Christians took a hit. But Jerusalem was not left desolate, badly damaged yes, desolate no. In fact Jerusalem continued to thrive after 70AD, that’s why the Romans had to come back approximatelt 60-65 years during Bar Kokhba revolt and slaughter another 650,000 or so Jews, but even that did not leave Jerusalem desolate. But all of this fails to compare to the desolation of Jerusalem under Islamic control where Jews and Christians were no longer even allowed to worship on the temple mount. In addition while under islamic control Jerusalem’s population dropped to approximately 550 people, yes 550 people by the early 1800’s.

And why would the ceasing of animal sacrifices be considered an abomination, when the offering of animal sacrifices after Christ was sacrificed an abomination itself?

While I agree that animal sacrifices are an abomination and a temple that Christ had declared desolate approximately 40 years earlier was destroyed, nothing that occurred in 70AD actually made it where the Jews had to stop animal sacrifices. Just because a desolate temple was destroyed did not mean the Jews could no longer offer sacrifices at that location. Remember the temple was also destroyed in 586BC but sacrifices still continued on the temple mount then until 583BC when the priests were taken captive.


And really, what has ever been more abominable than the murder of the son of GOD?
The Crucifixion is not the AOD. Are you suggesting the crucifixion was the abomination of desolation? Doesn’t Scripture tell us the abomination is placed on a wing of the temple? Doesn’t Scripture tell us the AOD stands until the end?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10
Daniel tells us the abomination would be on a wing of the temple, not in the inner sanctuary called the holy of holies. Christ only said the abomination would stand in a holy place. The temple mount is a holy place, the whole city of Jerusalem is a holy place. The DOR stands in the court of the Gentiles which is in the holy city so it does match the Scriptural requirment of being in a holy place per Christ’s words. It does stand in the location of the court of the Gentiles so it also meets Daniel’s requirement that it stand of the wing of the temple


Not sure where you get wind of the temple. It said on the wind of abominations.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,

Jesus says when you see the abomination spoken of by daniel the prophet. Thus they are one and the same. Jesus tells us where it will be standing. In the Holy Place.


Remember Christ referred us back to Daniel to gain an understanding of the AOD. The book of Daniel was written to the Jews (the only elect at that time). Many historians say that if the U.S. had not entered the war it would have lasted much longer. In addition many of those same historians also believe had the U.S. not entered the war when it did the Jews would have been eliminated.
Not sure what your trying to get at here. could you explain further?
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#11
Back in 1978, I was asked to teach a seminar on Daniel & Revelation. While doing so, the thought crossed my mind, “What if the 1290 and 1335 days of Daniel 12:11-12 are not the first or last half of the great tribulation, and what if Dan 9:27 isn’t about a seven-year tribulation.”

While in Bible college (class of ‘54), I’d studied all the usual explanations about the 69 weeks of Daniel 9:24-26 (from the decree of Artaxerxes I to the cross), but the way most theologians explained them, you had to fudge the numbers to make them fit recorded history. Then I remembered from the book of Jubilees found at Qumran, that for religious reasons, Old Testament Jews used a somewhat complicated 19 year calender, each year of which had only 360 days. Since Daniel was an Old Testament book, it occurred to me that the Lord may have used a calendar with which Daniel was familiar for the 69 weeks, a year of 360 days, so I tried it.

Bingo, it was exactly 483 Hebrew (476 solar) years from the decree of Artaxerxes 1 (444BC-445BC) to the cross! (32-34AD).

So we could now prove those 69 weeks were not weeks of days, but weeks of years. Then I remembered that the prophet Ezekiel (who lived at the same time as Daniel) had already written that prophetic days should be understood as years . . .

Ezekiel 4:5-6 “For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel. And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. “

Maybe prophetic days elsewhere in Scripture should also be understood as years. I then asked myself, “If the 69 weeks aren’t literal 24 hour days, maybe the 1290 and 1335 days of Dan 12:11-12 aren’t literal days either. We don’t have the authority to arbitrarily decide that days in Dan 12 are literal do we, particularly if they aren’t literal in Dan 9. Hadn’t God had just proven a day for a year in Dan 9:27? I looked at Dan 12:11 again with that idea in mind:

Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.”

Years possibly, but to which abolition of temple sacrifices might God be referring? I just had to try for a fit.

Historically, sacrifices were abolished four times. Once before Daniel, once during Daniel’s lifetime, then in 168 B.C. by Antiochus epiphanies, and in 70 A.D. when Titus the Roman sacked Jerusalem. Since sacrifices were indeed abolished during Daniel’s time, wasn’t it reasonable to conclude that the Lord was telling Daniel about an abolition of sacrifices he knew all about, an event to which Daniel could relate?

The temple was destroyed in 586 B.C. + 1290 Hebrew (1271.5 solar) years = 685.5 A.D.. That’s when the Muslim Califah Abd el Malik Ibn Marwan started clearing the temple mount. But the construction of the Islamic Dome of the Rock didn’t begin for another three years, so I thought there ought to be a better fit.

I went back to Scripture. In Jeremiah 41:5 we find that temple sacrifices continued AFTER the temple was burned, so when were they abolished? In Jeremiah 52:30 we find that Nebuzaradan, Captain of Nebuchadnezzar’s guard, took the final captivity back to Babylon three years AFTER the temple was destroyed, in the 23rd year of Nebuchadnezzar, 583 B.C..

Bingo! 583 B.C. + 1290 Hebrew (1271.5 solar) years = 688.5 A.D., and that, my friends, is the exact year when the Muslims started to build a memorial to Muhammad, The Dome of the Rock, on the temple mount of God Most Holy.

And what did the Bible call it? “The Abomination that maketh desolate!”
So the 1290 days "magically" become 1290 years!

LOL!

You don't improve with age dear boy! :p
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#12
Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

In the translation, "the desolate", it is a person, and should be translated "desolator". That desolator is the Antichrist. and is Satan himself. It is not a king in Europe, or the middle east, for Satan is the "star" that fell to the earth in Revelation 9:1, and he will be given the key, or the authority to the bottomless pit.

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand : )"

This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27.

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Mark 13 :
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


First understand that Judaea is the state that Jerusalem lies in. What takes place in the final days of this earth age, will originate out of Jerusalem and Judaea. We call that tiny state today "the nation of Israel". So first of all we must know what Daniel was talking about, and what this "abomination of desolation" that the world will see is all about.

Jesus Christ made the book of Daniel part of the New Testament and the book of Revelation. This is because He said, when you see those events that Daniel was speaking of, let him that readeth them, understand that the end of this age is not far away. It is time to get out of Jerusalem for that is where all this is going to take place, and that is where this false messiah, Satan is going to rule from.

There is no word in Greek, for : " it, he , she " etc. The subject, determines what that word will be. Since the subject is Satan, then the word " it" should be translated "he " .




A Christian interested in learning this just inbox me .
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#13
The events of 70AD were certainiy norrific and while it is true a building that Christ had declared desolate almost 40 years earlier was destroyed and roughly a million Jews were murdered, few Christians took a hit. But Jerusalem was not left desolate, badly damaged yes, desolate no.
The entire city was destroyed and dismantled: the temple, the wall, the buildings; everything was torn down. The only things left standing were a few towers to commemorate the Roman victory.

From Josephus
[Titus] Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and Temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as they were of the greatest eminence; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison [in the Upper City], as were the towers [the three forts] also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall [surrounding Jerusalem], it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it [Jerusalem] had ever been inhabited.
 
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Jul 26, 2013
1,451
5
0
#14
The temple of God is our bodies. It is our own selves who makes desolate.
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#15
Why would the Dome of the Rock be any more abominable than the Roman worship of Jupiter, or whatever, in the same place hundreds of years earlier?

Also, how could the Dome of the Rock be the abomination that makes desolate when Jerusalem and the temple were already completely desolated in 70 AD?

And why would the ceasing of animal sacrifices be considered an abomination, when the offering of animal sacrifices after Christ was sacrificed an abomination itself?

And really, what has ever been more abominable than the murder of the son of GOD?
Did you ever read the inscriptions on the walls of the Dome of the Rock? Tell me if you were God, would you classify this as an abomination against you?

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Surah 4:157 [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not[/FONT].

Or...[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth![/FONT]

and if that don't work for you, how about this?

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Sura 4:171: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son.[/FONT]

Each one of those statements are PLASTERED on the walls of the Dome and that Dome is built for the honor of Muhammad, the creator of Islam! EVERYTHING plastered on the Dome of the Rock is indeed a blasphemy against God. That's how I take it.

Also, the Bible NEVER stated that the abomination of desolation will be sitting in anything. It says "stand". Here are two references that support this.

Matt 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place,...

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not,...

Nothing sitting here and the thing identified as standing is the abomination of desolation, not the man of sin. two different entities.

 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#16
So the 1290 days "magically" become 1290 years!

LOL!

You don't improve with age dear boy! :p
And, you sir, are no wiser!
 
S

Saved_Forever

Guest
#17
Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

In the translation, "the desolate", it is a person, and should be translated "desolator". That desolator is the Antichrist. and is Satan himself. It is not a king in Europe, or the middle east, for Satan is the "star" that fell to the earth in Revelation 9:1, and he will be given the key, or the authority to the bottomless pit.

Matthew 24:15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand : )"

This reverence to Daniel the prophet, Makes the book of Daniel part of the New Testament. This reference is directed to Daniel 9:27.

The "abomination" is when Satan stands in Jerusalem, and proclaims that he is God, and the world believes it. The "desolation" is an incorrect translation into the English, which should read "desolator", and Satan is the desolator that will make the claim that he is God, the true Christ. "Desolation" is a condition, in the Hebrew manuscripts it is written, "On the wings of the desolator," this is not a condition, but a entity, a person. It is through this individual, Satan that the abomination shall come from. It is the desolator [Satan] that shall cause all but the sealed of God, to become desolate, or deceived.

Mark 13 :
14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:


First understand that Judaea is the state that Jerusalem lies in. What takes place in the final days of this earth age, will originate out of Jerusalem and Judaea. We call that tiny state today "the nation of Israel". So first of all we must know what Daniel was talking about, and what this "abomination of desolation" that the world will see is all about.

Jesus Christ made the book of Daniel part of the New Testament and the book of Revelation. This is because He said, when you see those events that Daniel was speaking of, let him that readeth them, understand that the end of this age is not far away. It is time to get out of Jerusalem for that is where all this is going to take place, and that is where this false messiah, Satan is going to rule from.

There is no word in Greek, for : " it, he , she " etc. The subject, determines what that word will be. Since the subject is Satan, then the word " it" should be translated "he " .




A Christian interested in learning this just inbox me .
Now, I want you to answer this very carefully.

Where in Dan 9:27 does it say WHAT the abomination of desolation is? Not interested in any other verses ANYWHERE else in Scripture. Just 9:27. Explain to me how you know this JUST BY USING 9:27.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#18
And, you sir, are no wiser!
The context of that Scripture is "days" not making one day = one year!

Any idiot with a bit of commonsense can see that, or do you also fail to see it! :p
 
Oct 22, 2011
628
7
18
#20
You don't improve with age dear boy! :p
The context of that Scripture is "days" not making one day = one year!

Any idiot with a bit of commonsense can see that, or do you also fail to see it! :p
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
 
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