The Reason You are Told that God No Longer Speaks.

[KelbyofGod]

Let's think about this. I post to a passage of scripture and you want to call me out over it?

You took the passage about the blind leading the blind out of context to create a pretext. You then endeavored to create a scenario in which you could justify said pretext. Scripture forces you back to reexamine the context of the passage.

Since you have concluded all are born by natural birth unsaved and blind. While true, God does not expect us to continue in that state. The entrance of Gods word is light. The nation of Israel was elect to take the word of God to all the heathen nations round about them.

The remarks Jesus made regarding the blind leading the blind was aimed to the religious leaders of the day not leading the laity into the light of Gods word but away from it. The same today with folks who are religious and not willing to teach the truth.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Thank-you. This posting is descriptive enough that I can now grasp how your postings fit together.

Please forgive me as I present it in detail (so you can confirm/deny that I am understanding you correctly)"
The portion in bold both references the question I'd asked about my perception of our starting point. The bold & underlined portion acknowledges that you agree I was correct in my starting position. The underlined only portion presents an argument for getting out of the starting position we were given at birth. (I think we are in agreement up to this point.) And your posting of Romans 10:14-15 (summarized) is effectively thanking God for providing those who help us out of our original state. Is that correct or at least close enough to what you were saying?

It may seem tedious that I go into such detail but my goal is to see EXACTLY where a disagreement or difference in understanding begins to occur.

And I will answer the other questions of your post more generally in my next post.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[notuptome]

Probably because the scripture furnishes us with a promise to provide prophetic dreams (if we'd like to call them that) by his spirit, as it is written in Acts 2:17:

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

One of the ways the scriptures furnish us is with descriptions of some of the things available for us to be furnished with....such as dreams, prophecy, healings, miracles, righteousness, good works, speaking in tongues, etc.

How many of these are you willing and hopeful to be furnished with?

Myself, I hope to be furnished with them all.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

If the prophecy were to all flesh then you would have a biblical hope. The prophecy is to Israel and not to you. The Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh but the prophecy and dreams are to your meaning Israel's son's daughter's and young and old men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Hungry]

Do you see the inherent contradiction in your statement? You claim that Scripture "thoroughly furnishes us" which is an excerpt from a passage, not the entire passage, so you're taking it out of context and massaging the meaning to fit your position. You also claim that if you add to Scripture you are sinning, but that is not in that passage, so you are adding to Scripture!

Here's your mistake: you believe that every time God speaks, He intends it to be added to Scripture. That's not in Scripture! Further, it is easy to demonstrate that is not the case, as I have done so, and to which you have not responded.

It is possible that when Paul wrote his second letter to Timothy, several books that we now consider "Scripture" had not yet been written. Only if we are absolutely certain that it was the last book penned could your position be sound. We aren't.

Scripture is for everyone. It is God's truth for everyone, and it does not contain anything that is only for one person. God certainly can speak directly to an individual through Scripture (He's done that for me). He can also speak to individuals outside of Scripture, and such messages are not for everyone, nor are they in any way "Scripture". The key is that when He speaks, He will not contradict Scripture.

Your comments are so obviously accurate. However, I’ve seen people argue against such wisdom unwilling to let go of their unsubstantiated beliefs. ....just the expectation for the Bible Discussion Forum....

 

[Dino246]

Your comments are so obviously accurate. However, I’ve seen people argue against such wisdom unwilling to let go of their unsubstantiated beliefs. ....just the expectation for the Bible Discussion Forum....

Agreed! In fairness to Dave_L though, his is a common view. I just think it's one of those dogmas that is adopted (or taught) without adequate thought and study. A careful search of Scripture provides evidence that contradicts the view, but without the mind open enough to consider the possibility of one's own misinterpretation, such awareness is unlikely. None of us likes to be wrong, and we're often unwilling to consider the possibility on something that is foundational. As usual, the problem is not the Scripture itself, but the interpretation thereof.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Let's think about this. I post to a passage of scripture and you want to call me out over it?

A quote from scripture can be used for malicious purposes, like when Satan quoted scripture while trying to get Jesus to sin. Jesus did not hesitate to 'call out' this misuse. That's why I brought it up when I couldn't see how it was helpful. (Thank you for clarifying)

You took the passage about the blind leading the blind out of context to create a pretext. You then endeavored to create a scenario in which you could justify said pretext.

Two answers here:

1. The title of the thread is the statement of my proposition (<--I had to look that word up to find the right one) and my first post is mapping how that conclusion was reached, so people can consider whether it makes sense or not...and people can examine/discuss any points of disagreement.
2. I think Matthew 15:14 is a warning to anyone who starts from a position of blindness. To me, that means it is a valid warning to all of humanity. And I think it is foolish to trust the person(s) who taught us if we've never actually confirmed that GOD actually sent them. The stakes are too high for that kind of blind trust. And I don't think people realize how hard it is to question a base doctrine, once it has been trusted without verification. That's why I brought up the topic.

I need to go do other things so I'll have to stop there for now.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[KelbyofGod]

If the prophecy were to all flesh then you would have a biblical hope. The prophecy is to Israel and not to you. The Holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh but the prophecy and dreams are to your meaning Israel's son's daughter's and young and old men.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I think are in error here.

Peter was using THAT prophecy (Acts 2:16,17) to explain the outpouring of the Holy Ghost...which is the promise of that prophecy...which promise applies to ALL those God calls (not just the Jews) as Peter goes on to say in verses 38 & 39:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. [39] For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[Blain]

What makes you thin people receive "prophetic dreams" if scripture thoroughly furnishes us?

Do you recall how it is said Acts 2:17
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

And the fact that ever since I was saved I have been bombarded with prophetic dreamsand visions, I can't even count how many dreams I had in which I saw the rapture happening, I have seen the tribulation in a vision and have also seen wormwood crash into earth.

 

[Blain]

The Lord speaks more like downloading information into my brain. Very often in parables and helps me look at situations from different perspectives. Twice in my life, both during serious arguments with my wife, He used electronics miraculously to get His message through. Once He froze the computer while my wife just finishing a major assignment for her degree. She thought all was lost. After trying everything else she reset the computer. The screensaver had been changed. It was an image of our four young children at Easter. My wife and I were both there to see it and it ended our argument. She realized that maybe working full time trying to finish her BSN while raising a big family was lacking proper priority, and putting too much stress on me. The other time my phone beeped like a notification. I looked at it and on my screen was a pic of my wife and I in Punta Cana. Nobody sent it to me. I was the only one with the picture. It just popped up from my photos then disappeared. At the time I was looking for places thinking we getting divorced. Again it was a pivotal time and we stayed together.

I like how you described it as downloading information and using parables, he often times teaches me by places analogies in my heart

 

[KelbyofGod]

Agreed! In fairness to Dave_L though, his is a common view. I just think it's one of those dogmas that is adopted (or taught) without adequate thought and study. A careful search of Scripture provides evidence that contradicts the view, but without the mind open enough to consider the possibility of one's own misinterpretation, such awareness is unlikely. None of us likes to be wrong, and we're often unwilling to consider the possibility on something that is foundational. As usual, the problem is not the Scripture itself, but the interpretation thereof.

Well said...and in a friendly manner. Two thumbs up. (if you remember Siskel and Ebert)

 

[Dave-L]

Do you recall how it is said Acts 2:17
“‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

And the fact that ever since I was saved I have been bombarded with prophetic dreamsand visions, I can't even count how many dreams I had in which I saw the rapture happening, I have seen the tribulation in a vision and have also seen wormwood crash into earth.

Scripture does not support you views. Scripture thoroughly furnishes us instead. And there is no pre-trib rapture or 7-year tribulation. So your mind is probably trying to process information from a bad source.

 

[Angela53510]

When God saved me, he spoke very clearly to me. What he said was John 3:16, although it took me years to realize it was that verse.

After that, I spent a lot of time reading the Word, and praying. God spoke to me not in a loud voice, but a small still one. Again, it was all scripture. As I got to know the Bible better, God didn't need to point out verses, just help me remember them. But I always knew he was close. That even includes the time I turned my back on him, because of the cruelty showed by Word Faith people. That time, he didn't tell me verses, just that I was to read the Psalms 5 chapters a day. It took months for me to pick up my Bible, but when I did, I felt God smile on me. And did I ever learn a lot during those two years. The Word opened my eyes and broke my chains. At the end of 2 years, God called me to seminary for the second time. The first time, I disobeyed, and ended up sick after that. So I followed through, and doors were opened wide. What an opportunity to learn from international missionaries and God-loving scholars. And God still speaks with me, through his Word, but also through that small still but powerful voice.

The message is very different message now than when I was. New Christian, 40 years ago. Although I may yet live a long time, God is pointing me to follow Jesus to a new home. And that is a glorious thing. And it may take a lot of years to get to the point when God judges me ready to make that journey.

I know a lot of non-charismatics don't like to hear a conservative Christian talk about a voice that isn't the Word itself. And that is your right! I just know God has been walking beside me, and the Holy Spirit teaching me and discipling me for so long. I think I know the Bible well enough to stand on these verses:

"The one who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3 The doorkeeper opens the door for him, and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought all his own sheep out, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice." John 10:2-4

Someone else posted this verse, I just wanted to quote the passage. We need to hear God's voice, as he says we should. We also need to recognize his voice. And we need to follow Christ daily. That is a simple passage, we should memorize, and do it! Whether it's through the actual written Word on paper that God illuminates, Or that small, special quiet voice. That is what the Bible says, and I have been so fortunate God has never led me astray, and even when I was wandering I heard his voice calling me back home!!

 

[Grandpa]

Scripture does not support you views. Scripture thoroughly furnishes us instead. And there is no pre-trib rapture or 7-year tribulation. So your mind is probably trying to process information from a bad source.

When you hear God Speak and when you receive a vision or a dream from God it changes the way you understand scripture.

Scripture does furnish us but without visions, dreams and hearing from God you will not have the proper understanding. You will, instead, most likely, have a carnal imagination of what you THINK the scripture is saying.

Even with dreams, visions and hearing from God I don't think anyone has 100% perfect understanding.

But without them they are truly the blind leading the blind.

 

[Dave-L]

When you hear God Speak and when you receive a vision or a dream from God it changes the way you understand scripture.

Scripture does furnish us but without visions, dreams and hearing from God you will not have the proper understanding. You will, instead, most likely, have a carnal imagination of what you THINK the scripture is saying.

Even with dreams, visions and hearing from God I don't think anyone has 100% perfect understanding.

But without them they are truly the blind leading the blind.

Scripture does not support this. I think it leads people astray.

 

[Dave-L]

Agreed! In fairness to Dave_L though, his is a common view. I just think it's one of those dogmas that is adopted (or taught) without adequate thought and study. A careful search of Scripture provides evidence that contradicts the view, but without the mind open enough to consider the possibility of one's own misinterpretation, such awareness is unlikely. None of us likes to be wrong, and we're often unwilling to consider the possibility on something that is foundational. As usual, the problem is not the Scripture itself, but the interpretation thereof.

Anyone adds to God's word when they think God speaks to them.

 

[Grandpa]

Scripture does not support this. I think it leads people astray.

Who are the blind leading the blind but people who HAVE NOT received vision(s) and dreams from God??

 

[Dave-L]

Who are the blind leading the blind but people who HAVE NOT received vision(s) and dreams from God??

You are adding to scripture if you think your dreams and imaginations are God speaking.

 

[Grandpa]

You are adding to scripture if you think your dreams and imaginations are God speaking.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


The bible is wrong? God Himself is wrong?

 

[Dave-L]

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


The bible is wrong? God Himself is wrong?

This happened and ended when scripture was completed. Daniel says Jesus would cause the prophecy and vision to cease. Dan. 9:24

 

[Grandpa]

This happened and ended when scripture was completed. Daniel says Jesus would cause the prophecy and vision to cease. Dan. 9:24

Wow. I guess God didn't get your memo.

Did you tell Him yet that He has to stop because of your understanding of Daniel 9:24??


This would be the height of hilarity if it weren't so sad...

 

[Dave-L]

Wow. I guess God didn't get your memo.

Did you tell Him yet that He has to stop because of your understanding of Daniel 9:24??


This would be the height of hilarity if it weren't so sad...

It's far more sad when people add to scripture.