the Sabbath

[stilllearning]

Love

Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:8-10​

I agree that is the difference between the old command to love and the new command to love. It is limited vs limitless. All the old could be kept by loving according to the limited fullness of us which we could not even do that. However, the new commandment is to love according to the unlimited fullness of Christ.

Lets look at the old and then new if I may bolden for the difference.

Matthew 22:34-40, But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Which the same is said for husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church. We know that if we don't love our brother then we don't love God. So the new standard is to love as Christ vs the old standard to love as thyself.

So if we truly love as Christ does how can we stumble because all is summed up and complete in his love. To which if we love our brother as Christ does then we do in fact love God.

So anyway I agree the old standard was to love as thyself vs the new is to love according to the standard of Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

You miss the point again

There is no literal blood Jew or Greek when it comes to being a child of God.

God's children are not determined by DNA.

The original children of God was found In Abraham and Jacob who became Israel.
The 12 tribes followed.
Israel mean child of God or prince of God.
It can also mean "one who wrestles or struggles with God".

The book of Romans Is clear that God does not distinguish between races. We are Abraham's children through Christ.

Mat 3:9And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Even children of God.

Mat 5:9Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Luk 20:36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Rom 8:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise....


Gal 3:28-2928 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

There is neither male nor female......
I still think people are born one or the other physically.

Paul is speaking about the spiritual regulations or criteria to being a child of God.

The problem you have is a reading and comprehension problem.

The N.T is explaining a difference between the covenant of law and the covenant of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Revealing yourselves, that you are a letter of Christ, delivered by us, written not with ink but with
the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the
sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face,
fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Here is the explanation of those two verses above by Chat GPT. Which is the literal,
plain reading of the text.

Here is what Chat GPT says about 2 Corinthians read in a literal way.

These verses from 2 Corinthians 3 present a profound contrast between the Old Covenant,
symbolized by the Law given to Moses, and the New Covenant brought by Christ and the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Paul describes the believers as "a letter of Christ," meaning that their lives reflect Christ's work
within them. This transformation is not written with ink or on stone tablets, as the Law was,
but is written by the Spirit of the living God on "tablets of human hearts." This imagery suggests
a more intimate, internal relationship with God, where faith is lived out through personal
transformation rather than adherence to external rules.

2 Corinthians 3:7
In this verse, Paul reflects on the glory of the Old Covenant, symbolized by the Law given to Moses.
Even though the Law was called a "ministry of death" because it ultimately exposed sin and led to judgment,
it still came with a glory so powerful that Moses' face shone. But this glory faded over time, symbolizing
the temporary nature of the Old Covenant. In contrast, Paul argues that the "ministry of the Spirit" under
the New Covenant is even more glorious and permanent.

Together, these verses highlight the shift from an external, law-based relationship with God
to an internal, Spirit-led relationship that brings true transformation and life. The New Covenant
emphasizes the heart's transformation, with God’s Spirit engraving His truth and love directly within.

 

[TMS]

The New Covenant
emphasizes the heart's transformation, with God’s Spirit engraving His truth and love directly within.

Which includes the 10 commandments.

The truth is that the 10 moral laws are valid today.
God does not want a lawless, corrupt people that are free to sin.

Sin is lawlessness and when the law is written on the heart we will by faith obey the law.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[TMS]

I agree that is the difference between the old command to love and the new command to love. It is limited vs limitless. All the old could be kept by loving according to the limited fullness of us which we could not even do that. However, the new commandment is to love according to the unlimited fullness of Christ.

Lets look at the old and then new if I may bolden for the difference.

Matthew 22:34-40, But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together.
35Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment.
39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Which the same is said for husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the church. We know that if we don't love our brother then we don't love God. So the new standard is to love as Christ vs the old standard to love as thyself.

So if we truly love as Christ does how can we stumble because all is summed up and complete in his love. To which if we love our brother as Christ does then we do in fact love God.

So anyway I agree the old standard was to love as thyself vs the new is to love according to the standard of Christ.

Heb 8:5-6
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

We have a better and more excellent ministry in in the new because we have Jesus the true substance. The old was full of things that pointed to Jesus and they were just shadows.

But Jesus is perfect... Christ kept the Ten commandments and was perfect love.

Both covenants required faith in Jesus.
People in the old Testament required faith to be saved.

 

[TMS]

The sabbath was created at creation

Before sin....

Before Jesus needed to die.

If Adam and Eve didn't sin. The sabbath would be a blessed and sanctified day that has nothing to do with Jesus and salvation from sin...

When they sinned God introduced the blood offing. The innocent lamb that needed to die... symbolic of Jesus..

The rest day was before sin.

Jesus is our rest and there are lots of natural things used to illustrate Jesus.
Light, water, rock, lamb.

The sabbath rest was not replaced by Jesus.

It was a gift from God made for man from the start.

 

[vassal]

The problem you have is a reading and comprehension problem.

The N.T is explaining a difference between the covenant of law and the covenant of the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Revealing yourselves, that you are a letter of Christ, delivered by us, written not with ink but with
the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the
sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face,
fading as it was, how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?

Here is the explanation of those two verses above by Chat GPT. Which is the literal,
plain reading of the text.

Here is what Chat GPT says about 2 Corinthians read in a literal way.

These verses from 2 Corinthians 3 present a profound contrast between the Old Covenant,
symbolized by the Law given to Moses, and the New Covenant brought by Christ and the Spirit.

2 Corinthians 3:3
Paul describes the believers as "a letter of Christ," meaning that their lives reflect Christ's work
within them. This transformation is not written with ink or on stone tablets, as the Law was,
but is written by the Spirit of the living God on "tablets of human hearts." This imagery suggests
a more intimate, internal relationship with God, where faith is lived out through personal
transformation rather than adherence to external rules.

2 Corinthians 3:7
In this verse, Paul reflects on the glory of the Old Covenant, symbolized by the Law given to Moses.
Even though the Law was called a "ministry of death" because it ultimately exposed sin and led to judgment,
it still came with a glory so powerful that Moses' face shone. But this glory faded over time, symbolizing
the temporary nature of the Old Covenant. In contrast, Paul argues that the "ministry of the Spirit" under
the New Covenant is even more glorious and permanent.

Together, these verses highlight the shift from an external, law-based relationship with God
to an internal, Spirit-led relationship that brings true transformation and life. The New Covenant
emphasizes the heart's transformation, with God’s Spirit engraving His truth and love directly within.

for you inquisitor again since you still do not understand.

In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ ( matthew 13:14-15)

 

[Inquisitor]

for you inquisitor again since you still do not understand.

In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled: ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has grown callous; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.’ ( matthew 13:14-15)

Your reply was for Chat GPT.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If we are walking in His Spirit we are keeping His commandments. If we love Him we keep His commandments and He gives us His Spirit of Truth who helps us so its through Christ John 14:15-18 All His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and His Spirit helps us keep them all.

Those who keep not His commandments, there is no truth

1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But if we abide in Him and He in us, we keep the commandments, just as Jesus did, who is our example to follow

1 John 2:5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Jesus is our perfect standard of righteousness , He kept all of the commandments John 15:10 including the Sabbath Luke 4:16 which He said is doing righteousness made for everyone Isa 56:1-6.

Lets not deceive ourselves

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

And follow in the footsteps of Jesus Christ

1 Peter 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for [e]us, leaving [f]us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;

Jesus wants to deliver us from living in the flesh (sin) and set our eyes on Christ living in His Spirit the way He lived keeping His own law, the perfect standard of righteousness Psa 119:172 as our salvation is from sin Mat 1:21 He does not just keep us in the sinful state Paul speaks of in Rom 7, He delivers us. Don't let the popular crowd deceive us that we do not need to follow the example Christ left, its how we abide in Him and He in us.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

James, the brother of Jesus, telling the gentiles that the pharisees who were telling them that they had to keep the law were subverting their souls.

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: Acts 15:24​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

James, the brother of Jesus, telling the gentiles that the pharisees who were telling them that they had to keep the law were subverting their souls.

Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: Acts 15:24​

Here is the law they are referring to...


Acts 15: 24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, [h]saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment

The issue was spelled out in verse 1 of this chapter

Acts 15:1 And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

There was never a commandment you must be circumcised to be saved, this is what they were correcting.

Definitely not the Sabbath that they were keeping every Sabbath

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There was never a commandment you must be circumcised to be saved, this is what they were correcting.

What part of "and keep the law" don't you understand?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

What part of "and keep the law" don't you understand?

I understand the law they were referring to was the law of circumcision to be saved as it clearly says. Nothing about no longer worshipping only God or breaking any of the commandments of God. Not about the Sababth as they clearly say they were keeping that every Sabbath Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4

Paul talks about many different laws- the law of faith, the law of sin, the law of circumcision, the law of God, the law of ordinances, the law of Moses, unless we carefully study the context and allow him to tell us the law he is referring to and compare it to what Jesus taught as he is a servant of Christ, a follower of Christ, we will never understand his teachings and its why there is a warning about them 2 Peter 3:16. What it does not say is the law of God i.e. the Ten Commandments.

What he does teach

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Its best imho not to have preconceived ideas about God's word, just let it read plain and let it guide us in all Truth. Trying to make it say something it doesn't make help you today, but not in the long run as we are only sanctified in the Truth of God's Word and only God can sanctify us Eze 20:12. 90% of scripture reads plainly. The other 10% can be found by comparing scripture.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I understand the law they were referring to was the law of circumcision to be saved as it clearly says.

It clearly says being circumcised and keeping the law. You're just trying to gaslight people by pretending the last part doesn't exist

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It clearly says being circumcised and keeping the law. You're just trying to gaslight people by pretending the last part doesn't exist

Being circumcised and keeping the law of circumcision to be saved by the context laid out plainly. There is not "one law" there are many different laws, just allow the scripture to explain itself, it will.

Is Paul teaching one to be carnal and hostile to God?

Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Anyway, I am not the one you have to convince we don't need to keep God's law. Jesus kept them, Jesus taught them, we are to be followers of Christ. Jesus did talk about those who break them and teach other to break though Mat 5:19

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Is Paul teaching one to be carnal and hostile to God?

Following law after the true light has shone in our heats is carnal

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Following law after the true light has shone in our heats is carnal

That may be your words to live by and your truth, but its not God's;

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Jesus said- If you love Me- keep My commandments John 14:15

Sad how the devil has convinced so many people obeying God and His law is sin and breaking them is not. The opposite of scripture 1 John 3:4 Rom 7:7 James 2:10-12 Its like the first lie in the garden that we can disobey God and live. Sadly that same argument is working. Heb 10:26-30

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That may be your words to live by and your truth, but its not God's;

It is God's words. Works of law are carnal

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:1-3​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It is God's words. Works of law are carnal

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:1-3​

God's works are canal?

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

I see why Paul's writings came with a warning because people does not read him in context. The main law Paul is addressing again in Galatians is circumcision Gal 2:3,7,8,9,12, Gal 5:2,6,11 Gal 6:12,13,15.

How can obedience to God's law, that Jesus said if we love Him we would keep, be carnal? While we are not saved by any law- we are saved by grace through faith, the issue is the Jews were teaching one needed to be circumcised to be saved, that's the works of the law he was referring to. There was never a teaching we are saved by circumcision, this is the issue Paul addressed over and over again in the NT. Paul was not teaching one to dishonor God by breaking His law

Romans 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

or sin

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

To be carnally minded means one is living by the flesh and sinning and not subject to God's law- you twisted what Paul said.

Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Was Jesus carnal for obeying the commandments and teaching us too? Is Paul countermanding Christ. Not a chance.

2 Peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

God's works are canal?

No, your teachings are lol

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Obeying God the way He asks by love and faith will never be carnal. but Paul told us what is. Rom 8:7-8 Same thing Jesus said depart from Me. Mat 7:21-23. The persecution is what we were told would happen Rev 12:17 we just need to decide which side of the war we are on Rom 6:16

Guess all will get sorted out soon enough.