the Sabbath

[Aaron56]

They weren't gathering grain or harvesting grain, they were walking with the Lord and plucking the heads because they were hungry

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

No different than gathering a piece of fruit from the garden and eating on the Sabbath, not a sin. Jesus said it wasn't Mat 12:7 so I believe Him versus He and the apostles accusers. Mark 3:2

Harvesting was forbidden on the legal sabbath according to the letter.
According to the spirit of the law it was permitted.

What about the show bread in the temple that David stole and ate?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Harvesting was forbidden on the legal sabbath according to the letter.
According to the spirit of the law it was permitted.

What about the show bread in the temple that David stole and ate?

Yes, but they weren't harvesting. Mat 12:1

 

[Inquisitor]

God's works are canal?

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

I see why Paul's writings came with a warning because people does not read him in context. The main law Paul is addressing again in Galatians is circumcision Gal 2:3,7,8,9,12, Gal 5:2,6,11 Gal 6:12,13,15.

How can obedience to God's law, that Jesus said if we love Him we would keep, be carnal? While we are not saved by any law- we are saved by grace through faith, the issue is the Jews were teaching one needed to be circumcised to be saved, that's the works of the law he was referring to. There was never a teaching we are saved by circumcision, this is the issue Paul addressed over and over again in the NT. Paul was not teaching one to dishonor God by breaking His law

Romans 2:21 You, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that a man should not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who make your boast in the law, do you dishonor God through breaking the law?

or sin

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

To be carnally minded means one is living by the flesh and sinning and not subject to God's law- you twisted what Paul said.

Rom 8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

Was Jesus carnal for obeying the commandments and teaching us too? Is Paul countermanding Christ. Not a chance.

2 Peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

Which part of the law, commandments or ceremonial, grants the knowledge of sin?

 

[Aaron56]

Yes, but they weren't harvesting. Mat 12:1

I get it. You don't understand.

What about the show bread, in the temple, that David ate? Did that not break the law? Only the priests were permitted to eat that bread.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Not the law of God.

Oh I get it. You're saying that the 10 commandments are the law of God, but the other commandments aren't. The showbread was most holy and by law could only to be eaten by priests

And it [showbread] shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute. Leviticus 24:9​

​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I get it. You don't understand.

What about the show bread, in the temple, that David ate? Did that not break the law? Only the priests were permitted to eat that bread.

Perhaps its not me that doesn't understand and Jesus knew what He was doing when He said they were guiltless Mat 12:7 not because He has a double standard.

There is no scripture that's says one can't eat on the Sabbath period.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Oh I get it. You're saying that the 10 commandments are the law of God, but the other commandments aren't. The showbread was most holy and by law could only to be eaten by priests

And it [showbread] shall be Aaron's and his sons'; and they shall eat it in the holy place: for it is most holy unto him of the offerings of the LORD made by fire by a perpetual statute. Leviticus 24:9​

​

We serve a practical God, David was running for his life from King Saul. He was starving and hungry. Normally the bread was reserved for priests, but it was not a sin for David to eat the bread.

The Ten Commandments are a separate law from all other laws according to God. Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Deut 5:22

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

We serve a practical God, David was running for his life from King Saul. He was starving and hungry. Normally the bread was reserved for priests, but it was not a sin for David to eat the bread.

Only because he was the anointed of God, as we are in Christ. Therefore, we are held blameless for violating the letter of the 4th commandment

 

[Aaron56]

Perhaps its not me that doesn't understand and Jesus knew what He was doing when He said they were guiltless Mat 12:7 not because He has a double standard.

There is no scripture that's says one can't eat on the Sabbath period.

What about David eating the show bread?

 

[Aaron56]

We serve a practical God, David was running for his life from King Saul. He was starving and hungry. Normally the bread was reserved for priests, but it was not a sin for David to eat the bread.

The Ten Commandments are a separate law from all other laws according to God. Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 Deut 5:22

Ha! Now you separate the 10 Commandments from the Law! They were given at the same time and the same priesthood administered that covenant at Sinai.

"when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well"

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Only because he was the anointed of God, as we are in Christ. Therefore, we are held blameless for violating the letter of the 4th commandment

There is no food in the Sabbath commandment and no scripture says we can violate the Sabbath commandment and be held blameless Just like we can't steal or murder someone. its no different. James 2:10-12 Jesus tells us over and over again not to profane His Sabbath. If you feel you are exempt from it, that goes to a much Higher Authority than I

 

[Inquisitor]

Heb 8:5-6
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

We have a better and more excellent ministry in in the new because we have Jesus the true substance. The old was full of things that pointed to Jesus and they were just shadows.

But Jesus is perfect... Christ kept the Ten commandments and was perfect love.

Both covenants required faith in Jesus.
People in the old Testament required faith to be saved.

I asked Chat GPT the following question.

Circumcision means a convert to the law. An initiation into the full law of Moses. Also, is it safe to assume
that Gentiles were never under the law and were never meant to be?

ChatGPT said:

Yes, circumcision is often misunderstood by many Christians, especially regarding its role and meaning
in the context of the law of Moses. In Jewish tradition, circumcision isn’t just a physical act but an initiation
into the covenant community, marking an individual’s commitment to observe the whole law of Moses.
Let’s break down these ideas in more detail.

1. Circumcision as an Initiation into the Law

• In the context of ancient Israel, circumcision was the sign of the covenant between God and Abraham’s
• descendants (Genesis 17:10-14). For Jewish males, it was both a physical sign and a spiritual entry point
• into the life and laws of Israel, effectively marking them as bound to the Mosaic covenant.
• By the time of Jesus and Paul, circumcision represented not only a physical rite but also a full commitment
• to the Torah’s requirements (Galatians 5:3, which says that anyone who is circumcised is
• “obligated to obey the whole law”). This understanding is critical to early Christian discussions about Gentiles,
• as it raised the question of whether Gentile converts to Christianity had to become "Jewish" (i.e., follow the Mosaic Law)
• in order to follow Christ.

2. Gentiles and the Law

• Throughout the Old Testament, Gentiles (non-Jews) were generally seen as outside the Mosaic covenant. While Gentiles who chose to join Israel’s community could do so by embracing the covenant (and hence circumcision), there is no indication that Gentiles as a whole were ever under obligation to keep the law given to Israel at Sinai.
• The New Testament reflects this understanding, especially in the teachings of Paul, who argued that Gentiles were never meant to be bound by the Mosaic Law. In fact, he emphasizes that salvation for both Jews and Gentiles comes through faith in Christ, not through observance of the law (Romans 3:28-30, Galatians 3:28).
• The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 also confirms this, where the apostles and elders determined that Gentile converts did not need to be circumcised or keep the Mosaic Law, except for a few specific instructions (Acts 15:19-20). This ruling effectively supported the view that Gentiles were not bound to the Mosaic Law as Jews were.

3. The Misunderstanding among Christians

• Many Christians today may view circumcision simply as a “Jewish ritual” or a mark of Jewish identity without recognizing its deeper implications of covenant commitment and legal obligation.
• Some Christians also struggle to understand why the early church was so divided over circumcision. For first-century Jews, circumcision was a binding sign of adherence to the entire law, so for Gentiles to undergo circumcision would imply that they were converting to the Mosaic covenant and its requirements.
• Paul’s teachings on circumcision focus on this deeper issue, arguing that in Christ, believers (both Jews and Gentiles) are part of a new covenant where circumcision is not required for membership in God’s people. Instead, faith in Christ and the “circumcision of the heart” (Romans 2:29) become the true markers of inclusion.

In Summary
It’s reasonable to say that many Christians misunderstand circumcision by not fully grasping its role as a covenantal commitment to the entire law. And it’s fair to conclude that Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law or intended to be bound by it as Israel was. This understanding clarifies why Paul and the early church leaders made such a clear distinction for Gentile believers, emphasizing that salvation in Christ does not require adherence to the Mosaic Law but rather is based on faith and grace for both Jews and Gentiles alike.

If an AI machine can read and understand the scripture tell me how you cannot?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Ha! Now you separate the 10 Commandments from the Law! They were given at the same time and the same priesthood administered that covenant at Sinai.

"when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well"

No, the Ten Commandments was given from the very beginning. Without law there is no sin Heb 4:15. It was a sin for Cain to kill Abel therefore they knew God's law of thou shalt not commit murder only found in the Ten Commandments.

The law in Hebrews 7 that changed, is the priesthood as shown in the context, does not mention once the Ten Commandments. Its still a sin to break the Ten Commandments in the NC Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

Anyway, we obviously are not going to agree. Thats OK, everything will sort itself out soon enough.

Take care.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I asked Chat GPT the following question.

Circumcision means a convert to the law. An initiation into the full law of Moses. Also, is it safe to assume
that Gentiles were never under the law and were never meant to be?

ChatGPT said:

Yes, circumcision is often misunderstood by many Christians, especially regarding its role and meaning
in the context of the law of Moses. In Jewish tradition, circumcision isn’t just a physical act but an initiation
into the covenant community, marking an individual’s commitment to observe the whole law of Moses.
Let’s break down these ideas in more detail.

1. Circumcision as an Initiation into the Law

• In the context of ancient Israel, circumcision was the sign of the covenant between God and Abraham’s
• descendants (Genesis 17:10-14). For Jewish males, it was both a physical sign and a spiritual entry point
• into the life and laws of Israel, effectively marking them as bound to the Mosaic covenant.
• By the time of Jesus and Paul, circumcision represented not only a physical rite but also a full commitment
• to the Torah’s requirements (Galatians 5:3, which says that anyone who is circumcised is
• “obligated to obey the whole law”). This understanding is critical to early Christian discussions about Gentiles,
• as it raised the question of whether Gentile converts to Christianity had to become "Jewish" (i.e., follow the Mosaic Law)
• in order to follow Christ.

2. Gentiles and the Law

• Throughout the Old Testament, Gentiles (non-Jews) were generally seen as outside the Mosaic covenant. While Gentiles who chose to join Israel’s community could do so by embracing the covenant (and hence circumcision), there is no indication that Gentiles as a whole were ever under obligation to keep the law given to Israel at Sinai.
• The New Testament reflects this understanding, especially in the teachings of Paul, who argued that Gentiles were never meant to be bound by the Mosaic Law. In fact, he emphasizes that salvation for both Jews and Gentiles comes through faith in Christ, not through observance of the law (Romans 3:28-30, Galatians 3:28).
• The Jerusalem Council in Acts 15 also confirms this, where the apostles and elders determined that Gentile converts did not need to be circumcised or keep the Mosaic Law, except for a few specific instructions (Acts 15:19-20). This ruling effectively supported the view that Gentiles were not bound to the Mosaic Law as Jews were.

3. The Misunderstanding among Christians

• Many Christians today may view circumcision simply as a “Jewish ritual” or a mark of Jewish identity without recognizing its deeper implications of covenant commitment and legal obligation.
• Some Christians also struggle to understand why the early church was so divided over circumcision. For first-century Jews, circumcision was a binding sign of adherence to the entire law, so for Gentiles to undergo circumcision would imply that they were converting to the Mosaic covenant and its requirements.
• Paul’s teachings on circumcision focus on this deeper issue, arguing that in Christ, believers (both Jews and Gentiles) are part of a new covenant where circumcision is not required for membership in God’s people. Instead, faith in Christ and the “circumcision of the heart” (Romans 2:29) become the true markers of inclusion.

In Summary
It’s reasonable to say that many Christians misunderstand circumcision by not fully grasping its role as a covenantal commitment to the entire law. And it’s fair to conclude that Gentiles were never under the Mosaic Law or intended to be bound by it as Israel was. This understanding clarifies why Paul and the early church leaders made such a clear distinction for Gentile believers, emphasizing that salvation in Christ does not require adherence to the Mosaic Law but rather is based on faith and grace for both Jews and Gentiles alike.

If an AI machine can read and understand the scripture tell me how you cannot?

Oh my word! ChatGPT is more illuminated than SabbathBlessing?

 

[Aaron56]

No, the Ten Commandments was given from the very beginning. Without law there is no sin Heb 4:15. It was a sin for Cain to kill Abel therefore they knew God's law of thou shalt not commit murder only found in the Ten Commandments.

The law in Hebrews 7 that changed, is the priesthood as shown in the context, does not mention once the Ten Commandments. Its still a sin to break the Ten Commandments in the NC Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 1 John 3:4 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12

Anyway, we obviously are not going to agree. Thats OK, everything will sort itself out soon enough.

Take care.

No. They knew their father "Adam, the son of God" and so they knew the character of their "grandfather", God. This was the essence of the covenant between God and God, from the foundation of the world.

Still, there was not an eye for an eye. Cain was able to live in exile. Very different than what the Sinai Law would have allowed.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

No. They knew their father "Adam, the son of God" and so they knew the character of their "grandfather", God. This was the essence of the covenant between God and God, from the foundation of the world.

Wth? I think that would be better expressed as the covenant between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:31-33​

 

[Aaron56]

Wth? I think that would be better expressed as the covenant between God and the house of Israel and the house of Judah

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jeremiah 31:31-33​

If you have questions let me know.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If you have questions let me know.

Oh I see. Your'e talking about Adam being a son of God. I object to referring to Adam as God. Far from it.

 

[Pasifika]

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Rom 7:12 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

The just live by faith and by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4

Including Mat 15:3-14 Mat 19:17-19 Mat 5:19-30 Exo 20:6 John 14:14 Isa 56:1-6 Mat 7:7-13 Exo 20:8-11 Mark 2:27 these all have a thus saith the Lord. Thats where I place my faith. I am not worried about human judgement, Jesus told us to expect it, so it means nothing. God's Judgement is what we should all be concerned with and nothing we can hide form Him Ecc 12:13-14 Rev 14:6-12 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15

go back to Rom 3:27 and start reading from there and tell me how many laws Paul is talking about, and how one established the other as in Rom 3:31 you've quoted above.

 

[TMS]

They knew their father "Adam, the son of God" and so they knew the character of their "grandfather", God.

The character of God is important
It does not change.

God is ......
Perfect
Holy
Spirit
Love
Light
True
Righteousness
Righteous
Just
Pure
Good
Faithful
Wisdom
Great
The God of peace
Unchanging.......

God is all of these things and He gave the law Himself. The law reflects the character of God.

The Law is......
Perfect. Ps 19:7, Jam 1:25
Holy. Rom 7:12
Spirit. Rom 7:14
Love. 1 Tim 1:5, Rom 13:10
Light Pro 6:23
True. Neh 9:13, Ps 119:142, 151
Righteousness. Ps 119:172
Righteous. Rom 8:4
Just. Rom 7:12
Pure. Ps 19:8
Good. Rom 7:12, 1 Tim 1:8
Faithful. Psa 119:86
Wisdom. Ps 11:10, Ps 119:98
Great. Hos 8:12
Love of the Law = peace. Psa119:165
Unchanging. Mat 5:18.

Jesus does not make this law void.
We are told to keep it.
True .... we are also told that keeping it without faith is a curse. Or that works alone do not save us. ... but the law is still valid. Pointing us to God and directing us away from sin.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.