the Sabbath

[TMS]

Easy to prove.

Jesus fulfilled the moral law, absolutely.

If one law in the law of Moses becomes redundant, then the whole law is also redundant.

I can list 600 laws from the law of Moses that are redundant!

I also add the 13 remaining laws to that list.

Jesus fulfilled the entire law, in fact, the law was given for Jesus to fulfill.

The law was never given to Israel for you to fulfill. On the contrary, the law is shouting at you, that you cannot fulfill the law.

The law grants the knowledge of sin and that's all the law can do.

True righteousness is received as a gift from Jesus. You cannot generate your own.

I only want to hear one boast from you, the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Any other prattle has another source.

Jesus did obey perfectly.
I agree that He kept all laws.

But I don't think you understand why and when or the difference between the laws.

The moral law has always been. Sin is the transgression of the law... sin has been from the start. Adam sinned, and cain sinned. They transgressed the law.

The law that was introduced because of sin is the law that points to our redemption. The cerimonial laws all point to Jesus and His ministry to save us from sin.
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

How can Paul be talking about the same law?

Rom 7:12-14 KJV 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. ....14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
The Law IS....
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The law WAS....

One law is and one was.
If you put them all together and say they are all shadows you are making void the laws that are not void.

The law does not make us righteous or justify us. But because of the grace of Jesus we should continue in sin. we are told to not make the law void.

Rom 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Remember what defines sin..
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

I obey the law because I love Jesus, and sin is to disobey the law.

 

[TMS]

Had a great time at work this morning. I feel very blessed.

Rev 22:14 KJV Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Ecc 12:13 KJV Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
1Jn 5:3 KJV For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Rev 22:14 KJV Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Ecc 12:13 KJV Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
1Jn 5:3 KJV For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Have joyous and blessed Lord's day!

 

[TMS]

1. Are you one of the children of Israel?
2. Are you still under the Law of Moses?
3. How many have you put to death for failure to observe the Sabbath?

1.
Yes we are all spiritually Jews today through Christ. Rom 2:21-29
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 11:16-17
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Inwardly we are God's children if we obey.

2.
No, We not under the laws of Moses, the shadow laws were nailed to the cross.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The laws that are a curse and a shadow and Against us were removed when Jesus died.
But that does not included the 10 commandments. Non are a curse, non are against us, and non are a shadow.

3.
The civil laws that Israel kept, were for the nation of Israel. It isn't in the 10 commandments or the Civil laws of today.

We all deserve to die as sinners but by grace we can be forgiven.
Rom 3:23-26
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

 

[Dino246]

To answer your first question, no the children of God is not going to want to sin, that why God’s law is so important, it shows our sin Romans 7:7 and is like a mirror so we can see our sin and shows us our need for Jesus who He alone can remove our sin, but requires us to have a change of heart, which means a change in direction and confession and repentance needs to be heartfelt and sincere. We have a just and fair God who wants nothing more than for us not to sin and will forgive us each time we do, but when He heals- He says go and sin no more- this is living in grace.

The other verse you are quoting from Colossians you are leaving out the context. There is more than one Sabbath in the scripture and Paul made it abundantly clear which Sabbath he is referring to. The annuals sabbath(s) written by Moses- not one of God’s finger-written commandments that is holy and blessed by God that no man can reverse Num 23:20 because man is not above God. I do hope you prayerfully consider the context.

Paul made it clear, the sabbath(s) he was referring to the ordinances handwritten by Moses which the context is in verse 14 Co 2:14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

No one ever quotes this because they want to stay in darkness instead of coming to God's Truth.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God, not a suggestion, finger written personally by our Lord and Savior that is holy and blessed (not the definition of contrary or against)and God said "Remember" because He knew everyone would forget. Once God blesses something as He did the Sabbath day, man cannot reverse. Num 23:20

The seventh day Sabbath is not a shadow of anything because it started at Creation- Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11God's perfect plan before the fall of man. The annual sabbath(s) called holy days that were ordinances Exo 12:43 Num 9:12 added after the fall of man that had to do with food and drink offerings Heb 9:10 Num 29:21 Num 29:24, the context of this passage, that were handwritten by Moses 1 Chro 33:8 that all was a placeholder until Jesus came 1 Cor 5:7 Col 2:17 Heb 10:1-22 as the blood of animals made nothing perfect but the blood of Christ can cleanse us of all sin and unrighteousness.

Rom 14:15 is referring to opinions of man, not what day God esteems over all others- the Sabbath is My holy day, the seventh day is the Sabbath Exo 20:10 Isa 58:13 which is why Romans 14 never once mentions the Sabbath. Man adds it there because that's their will, not God's. Romans 14:15 correlates with Col 2:14-17 and if one wanted to read Romans 14 in context you would see it is about food and drink, judging and opinions of man- not opinions of God. There is nothing in all the Ten Commandments that is about food or drink offerings.

Your argument is not compelling. Given that Scripture only records that the Ten Commandments were ‘handwritten’, it makes more sense that’ the handwriting of ordinances’ refers specifically to the Ten Commandments (at least).

 

[Dino246]

Jesus, by the word "fulfill," meant that he would confirm and complete the prophetic and typological parts of the Law and Prophets. Therefore, (as most Christians will admit) some jots and tittles of the law have passed away -- but by no means all of the law.
The whole Law won't be completed till the second coming of Christ.

I already said in the other post I'll make sure to do that, but this post is all mine.

Whether or not every part of the Law has been fulfilled is actually a secondary issue, because Christians are not under the covenant of the Law.

 

[dlj57]

Whether or not every part of the Law has been fulfilled is actually a secondary issue, because Christians are not under the covenant of the Law.

Question remains, why are the Ten Commandments repeated through the NT and the Sabbath mentioned and observed 60 times in the NT?

 

[Seeker47]

Have you noticed that the act of creation ended with Sabbath and that all creation ends with Sabbath? Does not the New Heaven and the New Earth usher in a glorified Sabbath? It looks to me like all things that are God's last throughout creation; His people, His assembly, His word, his law. It appears that He felt this important enough that we are to keep it before our eyes. Not the Sabbath of tradition nor another worship day, but a Sabbath of rest.

 

[dlj57]

Have you noticed that the act of creation ended with Sabbath and that all creation ends with Sabbath? Does not the New Heaven and the New Earth usher in a glorified Sabbath? It looks to me like all things that are God's last throughout creation; His people, His assembly, His word, his law. It appears that He felt this important enough that we are to keep it before our eyes. Not the Sabbath of tradition nor another worship day, but a Sabbath of rest.

Look up rest as it refers to scripture, the word rest means Sabbath Keeping.

 

[dlj57]

Whether or not every part of the Law has been fulfilled is actually a secondary issue, because Christians are not under the covenant of the Law.

We are not under the old covenant through Christ crucifixion, The Ten Commandments are not part of the old covenant and are still to be observed and obeyed as in the evidence that they are repeated throughout the NT.

 

[dlj57]

1.
Yes we are all spiritually Jews today through Christ. Rom 2:21-29
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? 22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? 23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God? 24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Rom 11:16-17
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Inwardly we are God's children if we obey.

2.
No, We not under the laws of Moses, the shadow laws were nailed to the cross.
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
The laws that are a curse and a shadow and Against us were removed when Jesus died.
But that does not included the 10 commandments. Non are a curse, non are against us, and non are a shadow.

3.
The civil laws that Israel kept, were for the nation of Israel. It isn't in the 10 commandments or the Civil laws of today.

We all deserve to die as sinners but by grace we can be forgiven.
Rom 3:23-26
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

TMS he is wrong, he is misquoting the meaning scripture. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (Exodus 31:12-14)

 

[dlj57]

TMS he is wrong, he is misquoting the meaning scripture. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (Exodus 31:12-14)

It doest say anything about killing Christians that observe the Sabbath, It says defileth the Sabbath

 

[Dino246]

Question remains, why are the Ten Commandments repeated through the NT and the Sabbath mentioned and observed 60 times in the NT?

That's a misleading statistic. Try again, with integrity this time.

 

[Dino246]

The Ten Commandments are not part of the old covenant

So you keep claiming, but have consistently failed to demonstrate.

 

[Magenta]

Amen, Danny
Every time you ask someone to explain why the Ten commandments and the
Sabbath are mentioned and observed in the NT they can't give an answer.

How odd that you refuse to acknowledge that none of the Sabbath mentions are given as a command.

Some might even say dishonest, even.

 

[Inquisitor]

Question remains, why are the Ten Commandments repeated through the NT and the Sabbath mentioned and observed 60 times in the NT?

Because Jesus was sent to the Jews only, that's what the scripture tells us.

The first third of the book of Acts, for example, concerns the growth of the church in Israel. That is the reason why the law and the Sabbath get mentioned a lot. People misunderstand that the Jewish church and the Gentile church were very different churches.
If you check your references to the Sabbath, you will quickly notice, that most are in the gospels. The rest are in the first third of the book of Acts. Then after chapter 18 of the book of Acts, we find no mention of a Sabbath. So why does the Sabbath disappear in the book of Acts? Because Acts switches to the ministry of Paul and the Gentile churches, that's why!

Fact, the Gentiles were never under the law.

The Gentiles were given four laws to obey in Acts 15. There is not much else we can say about the Gentiles and the law, from the text of the New Testament.

The text makes no mention of the phrase, 'ten commandments'.

You are inferring that the Gentiles were placed under the law. The text never mentions anywhere, that the Gentiles
are under the law. No one can make the claim that Gentiles are under the ten commandments, because the text never states that.

We know without a shred of doubt, that the Jews were under the law.

We also know that the Gentiles were not under the law.

We are not able on the basis of the New Testament, to establish that the Gentiles were under the law.

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus did obey perfectly.
I agree that He kept all laws.

Of course He did, after all. He was the author of the law.

But I don't think you understand why and when or the difference between the laws.

I see no difference because there is no difference in the law. Circumcision, idolatry, food laws, health laws, sorcery, etc. Are all the same law. Commit sorcery and you die, refuse circumcision and your expelled from Israel. One in the same.

The moral law has always been. Sin is the transgression of the law... sin has been from the start. Adam sinned, and cain sinned. They transgressed the law.

Before the law, Cain did not love his brother and Cain killed his brother. The law of loving others was the eternal law that Cain transgressed. If you love others, you have fulfilled the law.

The law that was introduced because of sin is the law that points to our redemption. The cerimonial laws all point to Jesus and His ministry to save us from sin.

Correction, the law cannot be broken into sections. You are under the law or you are not under the law. To say the 10 commandments are moral law, is missing the entire purpose of the law. The law grants the knowledge of sin. When you finally realize that you are a sinner. Then you need the messiah. The messiah is the only one who can make atonement for your sin, The law introduces the messiah. That's the purpose of the law.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

"till the seed should come!!!!'

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus, by the word "fulfill," meant that he would confirm and complete the prophetic and typological parts of the Law and Prophets. Therefore, (as most Christians will admit) some jots and tittles of the law have passed away -- but by no means all of the law.
The whole Law won't be completed till the second coming of Christ.

I already said in the other post I'll make sure to do that, but this post is all mine.

Which law in the law of Moses applies to the return of Jesus?

You said, 'some jots and tittles of the law have passed away'.

Matthew 5:17-18
Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter shall pass from the Law, until all is accomplished!

You are in conflict with what Jesus said!

Jesus said, 'not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass'.

You said, 'some jots and tittles are passed'.

You can't have it both ways, either, all is accomplished or it has not been accomplished by Jesus.

Take a stand today on what you believe.

 

[Inquisitor]

Did you copy this reply from website?

You need to quote the source, otherwise your committing plagiarism.

Plagiarism, presenting work or ideas from another source as your own, with or without consent of the original author.

Here is how you avoid breaking the law.

The line below is the source of your reply.

(www.cgg.org/index.cfm/library/bqa/id/232/does-paul-do-away-with-sabbath-holy-days-colossians)

You attach that at the end of your reply.

So everyone can check the source itself.

I'll make sure to do that.[/QUOTE]Very good, remind me if I forget to quote a source.

 

[Inquisitor]

It says the apostles kept every Sabbath- this is 30+ years after the Cross- thats a lot of Sabbath observance- as they were commanded to observe everything Jesus commanded of them. Mat 28:18-20



Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, “Men andbrethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.”

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Acts 15:21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Acts 16:13And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

That's the last reference (Acts 18) to the Sabbath in the book of Acts. Which coincides with the birth and growth of the Gentile Churches.

Did you know that the word 'sabbath' is not mentioned once in 13 letters that Paul wrote.

Except for Colossians 2:16
Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day.

We know for a fact, that Paul never taught the sabbath or even the law to the Gentile Churches. Because that is what the evidence in Paul's letters tells us. We have to stick to the written evidence, not inferring something that is not in the text.

Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.