The Sad Lives Of Legalists And Sinless Perfectionists

[Jason0047]

Jesus and His teachings set the standard for us that we are to stop sinning. As I said before, an alcoholic may stumble on his road to recovery, but that is not the same thing as say an alcoholic who says he is free and yet he is a slave to the demon in his bottle for the rest of his life.

 

[Willie-T]

A man in my Men's group once did some thing that "showed" more love for God than keeping ALL of a list of rules.

He sat down, and traded his $75 sneakers with a homeless man he didn't even know because the homeless guy's shoes were well past ready to be trashed.

 

[Jason0047]

What's the book say? "We love Him BECAUSE He first loved us." It's a willing thankfulness to God..... NOT an attempt to be good enough to earn something.

You forget the "love" part. A sinful person has to let "love" (God) transform them spiritually whereby they will be changed in loving God by not mere words or by a mere mental acknowledgment. That is not real love. For a man can say he loves his fiance, but if he makes absolutely no attempt anymore to love her beyond mere words, then it really is not true love anymore. Love is shown by one's actions. Love is not a feeling in and of itself alone. God showed His love not be a feeling but by an action. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. That's an action that shows forth true love. James says the same thing. He says if you say to the poor to be ye warm and filled, and yet he does not help them, then that is not real love. Jesus said, if you love me, you will keep his commandments. Now, how is this not Works Salvationism? Because it is Christ doing the "good work" in a person. Just as it was the Lord who convicted a person to repent of their sins and to accept Him. For salvation in every aspect of our life is always the LORD's doing and not our own.

 

[Willie-T]

If you have to have a set of rules to follow to "show" you love God..... it may be time for a good, long look in the mirror.

 

[Jason0047]

A man in my Men's group once did some that "showed" more love for God than keeping ALL of a list of rules.

He sat down, and traded his $75 sneakers with a homeless man he didn't even know because the homeless guy's shoes were well past ready to be trashed.

While that is admirable, it is more admirable if you and or others would have never known about it. Granted, not every situation can allow for that. But I am saying it is better to do one's giving in secret if it all possible before the Father.

 

[senzi]

Why even bother to talk about God and or to do good ever again if you are forgiven of all future sin? Is that how one shows that they love God?

I take it then from your response, you seek to obey out of fear of hell if you don't,, not out of love for the amazing grace shown to you a sinner

 

[Willie-T]

While that is admirable, it is more admirable if you and or others would have never known about it.

I swear.... maybe you ARE hopeless. That was just a pitiful remark........ how do you think you know about all the things from the Bible? Were they hidden from us?

 

[Jason0047]

I take it then from your response, you seek to obey out of fear of hell if you don't,, not out of love for the amazing grace shown to you a sinner

It's actually both. For the Scriptures do say ...."....by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil." (Proverbs 16:6).

 

[Jason0047]

I swear.... maybe you ARE hopeless. That was just a pitiful remark........ how do you think you know about all the things from the Bible?

Are you unaware of Matthew chapter 5 where it says this?
Granted, I am not saying that what he was done is bad in any way. I am just saying it is better to give in secret is all. Yes, sometimes this cannot be helped. But we are not to let our left hand know what the right hand is doing.

 

[Willie-T]

Are you unaware of Matthew chapter 5 where it says this?
Granted, I am not saying that what he was done is bad in any way. I am just saying it is better to give in secret is all. Yes, sometimes this cannot be helped. But we are not to let our left hand know what the right hand is doing.

Perhaps YOU do things to show off. I don't know. But this man needed shoes at that moment, and Tom gave his to him. Took all of seven seconds, and hardly a word was ever said about it.

I honestly wonder about your mental state at times.

 

[Magenta]

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

[Jason0047]

If you have to have a set of rules to follow to "show" you love God..... it may be time for a good, long look in the mirror.

I didn't write the Bible. God did. And He says in His Word, "If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

 

[realchild4life]

The Christian world is obsessed with sin. It's all we talk about. Most of our preaching and teaching is directed toward getting people to quit sinning. To use the analogy of the starving man, most Christian teaching is like a person following a starving man around saying, "You stay out of the garbage! Do you hear me? Don't eat the garbage!" Look, when you're truly hungry, you'll eat anything - even garbage.

But I promise you: If you get that man into the cafeteria line, and he begins experiencing what real food is like, he won't be nostalgically dreaming about the garbage out back.

But here is what legalists and sinless perfectionists do: They claim to offer believers good food, but in fact, point them back to garbage, and then condemn them for eating it. They place people back under the yoke of the Law through a works-righteousness religion. To them, it is performance that counts. How you live your life.

But think about this: If merely shaping up our actions were what God desired, then the Pharisees would have been His favorites!

Those type of Christians are better known for what they are against than for what they are for. The meanest, most unloving people on earth are legalists. And like the Pharisees, they are capable of feeling extremely righteous even in the act of stabbing a brother in the back.

People are attracted to Christ by the message of His total love and acceptance and of salvation by grace; then, once they're in the family of God, legalists/sinless perfectionists swoop down and level the believer with demands of performance and conformity. But the Bible says you can't have it both ways.

"And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." (Romans 11:6)

Legalists love to claim that works and the Law are separate things - but they are not. Both the Law and works are a means to gain the acceptance of God through performance. A standard of living.

Law/works are the realm of what you earn. Grace is the realm of receiving a free gift. How could you ever mingle the two? You can't work for a gift, or it's not a gift. Even a payment of $1 takes it out of the realm of a gift. A gift is not a gift unless it is totally free.

Because of the mingling of Law and grace, multitudes of Christians are living in daily fear, frustration, and guilt. Believing that God is far away in disapproval, they are never free to discover Christ living in and through them.

We look into the mirror of the Law and see that we are lawbreakers and therefore under it's curse. Desperately we cry out to God, "How can I be saved?' and the answer comes: "Believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved." Once we have come to this point, what further role does the Law have in our lives? NONE! It has done it's job! Its purpose was to drive us to Christ, and it has done so.

"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the Law." (Galatians 3:25)

Under the Law 'the wages of sin is death' (Romans 6:23); but 'There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus' (Romans 8:1)

That's one reason why the commands in the New Testament are not laws. The second reason is that we are not obeying those New Testament commands in order to be accepted by God. Under Law, a man works to be accepted by God. Under grace, a man serves because he is already accepted by God.

The legalist will always say that an emphasis on grace will lead to more sinning. But that's not what the Bible says:

"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It [the grace of God] teaches us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope - the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ." (Titus 2:11-13)

The grace and love of God is the true motivation for the Christian life.

Legalists who believe that God likes them when they are good, but hammers them when they are bad, in turn, treat other people the exact same way!

If you have ever wondered why Christians' lives and morality often don't rise above the world's level, that is the reason.

Aside from God's unconditional love and acceptance, we have little power or motivation for true obedience. We must first receive God's unconditional love and acceptance for us, before we will ever learn to love Him in return. "We love Him because He first loved us." (1 John 4:19)

It is that message that transforms hearts and lives - not one of endless rules, regulations, and performance. Those who try to live according to the legalist standard will discover that real, abundant life is not found there - in fact, he will probably be even more miserable than when he was lost.

The legalist is like a Cop. He isn't interested in why you were speeding; he doesn't care whether or not you did it on purpose; nor is he interested in hearing about all the other days that you did abide by the law. All he knows is that you broke the law, and here is your penalty.

The attitude of those who live by the Law is anger and indignation, and the goal is justice via punishment; The attitude of those who live by grace is love, and their goal is the benefit and development of the person.

Legalists/sinless perfectionists are never humble. They are proud and arrogant. Quick to condemn, slow in showing mercy.

That's why grace is only available to the humble. Because only the humble will receive it. The humble will always find God to be gracious and compassionate. He will open the floodgates of His love to any man, woman, boy, or girl who comes to Him in humble faith. - Bob George

Quite flawless.

 

[Jason0047]

Perhaps YOU do things to show off. I don't know. But this man needed shoes at that moment, and Tom gave his to him. Took all of seven seconds, and hardly a word was ever said about it.

I honestly wonder about your mental state at times.

You are taking my statement as an insult when it was not intended as one. I am saying that while such an action can be good, Matthew 5 says it is better to give in secret. As I said before, not all situations can allow for us to give always in secret. The point Jesus was making is do not do your alms giving so as to be seen by men.

 

[Willie-T]

You are taking my statement as an insult when it was not intended as one. I am saying that while such an action can be good, Matthew 5 says it is better to give in secret. As I said before, not all situations can allow for us to give always in secret. The point Jesus was making is do not do your alms giving so as to be seen by men.

We all know the verse. But you couldn't just see that as something cool, and keep your mouth shut, could you?

 

[Jason0047]

Quite flawless.

Not really. I do not want to seek after any attention by anyone. I do not want to boast or be famous or have a huge church. I prefer to do my works in secret before the Father where only He will see me. Yes, there are works we are to do before others... like preaching the Word, etc. But my primary mission is to please God and not any man. For what I believe is not the popular view. Also, I strive never to come off as hating anyone. I want to merely let folks know that God does not tolerate sin (Even amongst His people). Read Matthew 13:41. Does it sound like those in Christ's Kingdom will get away with doing iniquity or sin (According to that verse)?

 

[Willie-T]

I didn't write the Bible. God did. And He says in His Word, "If you love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

And He said that two simple statements summed up all the Law and the Prophets. No need to keep a check list.

 

[Jason0047]

We all know the verse. But you couldn't just see that as something cool, and keep your mouth shut, could you?

It's not wrong to preach the Word of God. I am not wrong for talking about the truth of God's Word which says it is better to give in secret. I am not condemning his actions in the slightest. I am merely saying it is better to give in secret whenever possible. You are taking offense to what I am saying here when there is no offense intended. God's Word stands as being true, whether you like it or not.

 

[Jason0047]

And He said that two simple statements summed up all the Law and the Prophets. No need to keep a check list.

David said he hid God's Word within his heart so that he may sin against the Lord. Do you think it is a coincidence that there are many commands and teachings given to us in the New Testament just so that we can ignore them? Paul says that what he had written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Paul also essentially said that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and he knows nothing.

 

[Gr8grace]

I swear.... maybe you ARE hopeless. That was just a pitiful remark........ how do you think you know about all the things from the Bible? Were they hidden from us?

I have never seen anything like it Willie. There are instances in the bible that seem to show a heart that is beyond hard and has no hope left.

Most people think that it comes from immorality and loose living..............I have a tendency to think that a hard heart that is beyond repair is more along the lines of ," You didn't give your shoes away in secret? I would of!"

Sometimes I wonder if we are just being played. It is utterly astounding if this is for real!