The Second Coming of Christ and the First Resurrection.

[TheDivineWatermark]

JonMaxwell said:
2 Timothy 2:16-18 was written circa ad 50... almost 2,000 years ago. The ENTIRE Bible was written within a period of 1,500 years. 2 Timothy was written by a man named Paul, to a man named Timothy 2,000 years ago. Not from God to us, or even from Paul to us. There WERE some who were in error AT THAT TIME who said that the resurrection was past. The scripture is correct. But that *does not mean* that it has *any* application for today.

So your saying Paul writings aren't from God yet there they are in the Bible as scripture. So do we throw away all of Paul's writings or just his letter to Timothy?

That poster / member (now banned) was saying (from his "Preterist" perspective) that he sees that passage as applicable only up until the time it was actually fulfilled, which in his viewpoint ('preterist') was in the events surrounding "70ad" (after that Timothy passage was written);

The problem with "Preterism" is that it (like the "Amill-teachings" do) completely disregards many passages regarding the CHRONOLOGY issues and TIMING issues...
(...not to mention, not grasping just who the identity known as "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" refers to [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)], mistakenly believing it refers to "all saints of all times"--but is actually who Paul was given the task of addressing in his numerous epistles, unfolding the doctrine pertaining especially to/for/about and concerning "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" i.e. us [by the way, for the readers, Eph1:10's phrase "in the dispensation of the FULNESS OF TIMES" is NOT speaking of the NOW / "in this present age"])

 

[Anthony55]

That poster / member (now banned) was saying (from his "Preterist" perspective) that he sees that passage as applicable only up until the time it was actually fulfilled, which in his viewpoint ('preterist') was in the events surrounding "70ad" (after that Timothy passage was written);

The problem with "Preterism" is that it (like the "Amill-teachings" do) completely disregards many passages regarding the CHRONOLOGY issues and TIMING issues...
(...not to mention, not grasping just who the identity known as "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" refers to [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)], mistakenly believing it refers to "all saints of all times"--but is actually who Paul was given the task of addressing in his numerous epistles, unfolding the doctrine pertaining especially to/for/about and concerning "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" i.e. us [by the way, for the readers, Eph1:10's phrase "in the dispensation of the FULNESS OF TIMES" is NOT speaking of the NOW / "in this present age"])

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ My pleasure.



Have a great day. = )

 

[justbyfaith]

Who is left behind?
Do you believe God leaves His Children behind?

Peace to You my Brother

Of course God doesn't leave His children behind.

I am saying, however, that if the rapture occurs at the juncture of the seventh trumpet; and I believe it does (1 Corinthians 15:52); then we go up before the events of Revelation 13 and 14; which is the implementation of the mark, number, and name of the Beast.

 

[John146]

i love the KJV and the NKJV - i am not afraid of other versions -
Stay away from any version that changes the Gospel and Genesis through to Revelation with all that relates to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The NKJV is part of that crowd. Stick with the KJV.

 

[justbyfaith]

The "explaining on the way up" joke is very old & recycled. I remember an American TV preacher in the 1980's using it.
While you are explaining on the way up perhaps you could contemplate why would still need to be taken away
in your new immortal body. And why all the saints from heaven who have just arrived need to leave for heaven again.

Of course it's not a sin to pray for escape but it puts quite a constraint on your faith if you will only accept a "pretrib-rapture"
as an answer to that prayer. God has many methods of deliverance.

You are marked by the blood of the lamb. God's wrath isn't directed at you. That stands regardless of location.
The entire world population is not going to be beheaded.

Right...that is only going to happen to those who refuse the mark and, in doing so, reject everlasting condemnation.

 

[DavidTree]

As in the NKJV and all new versions. Just remember that.

So, who are these in Revelation 19 aand have they been Resurrected in the First Resurrection that takes place in chapter 20.

Of course God doesn't leave His children behind.

I am saying, however, that if the rapture occurs at the juncture of the seventh trumpet; and I believe it does (1 Corinthians 15:52); then we go up before the events of Revelation 13 and 14; which is the implementation of the mark, number, and name of the Beast.

According to your estimation - God 'leaves behind' the Saints to be beheaded by the antichrist.

These Saints must be really bad Christians and the pre-fibbers must be really Good people - Yes/No???

 

[DavidTree]

The NKJV is part of that crowd. Stick with the KJV.

OK, when we interact and if i use the 'wrong' version, will you please forgive me and post the KJV scripture i am referencing.
FYI - i always studied the KJV and later purchased the NKJV - i still use both.
i sure hope this does not make me a blasphemer.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, who are these in Revelation 19 aand have they been Resurrected in the First Resurrection that takes place in chapter 20.


According to your estimation - God 'leaves behind' the Saints to be beheaded by the antichrist.

These Saints must be really bad Christians and the pre-fibbers must be really Good people - Yes/No???

Jesus is coming back for a glorious church, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing but holy and without blemish.

If anyone is caught sinning when the rapture happens, they will very likely be left behind.

 

[DavidTree]

Jesus is coming back for a glorious church, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing but holy and without blemish.

If anyone is caught sinning when the rapture happens, they will very likely be left behind.

What about the Saints who are beheaded for their Witness and Testimony in Christ?

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Revelation 12:11

What sins did they commit whereby God left them behind?

 

[justbyfaith]

What about the Saints who are beheaded for their Witness and Testimony in Christ?

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Revelation 12:11

What sins did they commit whereby God left them behind?

That's between them and God.

 

[DavidTree]

That's between them and God.

So you believe pre-trib teaches that God leaves Saints behind.

 

[DavidTree]

That's between them and God.

So you believe pre-trib teaches that God leaves Saints behind - YES/NO?

 

[justbyfaith]

So you believe pre-trib teaches that God leaves Saints behind - YES/NO?

I believe that pre-trib teaches that many will get their hearts right and become saints after the occurrence of a pre-trib rapture.

 

[DavidTree]

I believe that pre-trib teaches that many will get their hearts right and become saints after the occurrence of a pre-trib rapture.

That is not the words of Lord in 1 Thessalonians ch4 and 2 Thessalonians ch 2 and 1 John 2:18 and in the entire book of Revelation.

It is forbidden to 'add to and take away from God's words' - this is a terrible sin to commit.

So, please review the Scripture so that you can prove to us - the Saints, that God leaves Saints behind and/or that there is a specific cut off period where there is a pre-trib rapture of His Bride/Saints/Brethren/Overcomers and then a whole new group of people get saved and Christ now has a Second Bride that He will Return for a THIRD Time.

Because this is EXACTLY what you are saying and fully believe in pre-trib doctrine.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

many will get their hearts right and become saints after the occurrence of a pre-trib rapture.

Yes, many people will come to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"...

... and this is a matter (for one thing) of grasping the CHRONOLOGY issues.

Many don't grasp this.

 

[John146]

OK, when we interact and if i use the 'wrong' version, will you please forgive me and post the KJV scripture i am referencing.
FYI - i always studied the KJV and later purchased the NKJV - i still use both.
i sure hope this does not make me a blasphemer.

It just makes you one who is not using the word of God. Is that important to you?

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, many people will come to faith in Christ FOLLOWING "our Rapture"...

... and this is a matter (for one thing) of grasping the CHRONOLOGY issues.

Many don't grasp this.

We grasp the TRUTH - The Lord told us when His Second Coming will occur according to His Prophetic Word

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matt 24:14

 

[DavidTree]

It just makes you one who is not using the word of God. Is that important to you?

Satan likes you brother - you spoke his words just now - Is that important to you?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

We grasp the TRUTH - The Lord told us when His Second Coming will occur according to His Prophetic Word

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." Matt 24:14

...and parallel with 26:13 (<--read this verse please)... as well as what we see in Revelation 7:9 (as well as some of its results, there in that context--re: "a great multitude... of all the nationS"... and this passage vv.9-14[-17] set in contradistinction to the "144,000" [of a SINGULAR NATION], who will exist on the earth at the same time as the others in this passage, who the "144,000" are said to be "SERVANTS of our God" [compare also with the wording in 1:1]).