The Second Coming of Christ and the First Resurrection.

[Pilgrimshope]

The rapture cannot happen any time after the seventh trumpet; for this is what is written about the seventh trumpet.

Rev 11:15, And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16, And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18, And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19, And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The saints are judged for reward at the time of the seventh trumpet; so if they were to be raptured any time after the seventh trumpet, it would seem that they miss out on their reward.

It should be clear, also, that the mark, number, and name of the Beast occurs after this event, in Revelation 13 and 14.

the beast is in service to satans Will

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

In this the children of God are manifest,

and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:8, 10-12‬ ‭KJV‬

isn’t it interesting that Cain who served sin , rather than God received a mark and was cut off from Gods presence ? Could be that serving sin and being called children of the devil is the mark of the beast who serves Satan

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No.

Here is satan giving the church great tribulation:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.


Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems the war in heaven when Christ was seated , Satan and his angels were defeated and cast out of heaven and the war is now on earth between e devil
And his servants and those who accept Christ and the gospel


“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Only some wait for a physical dragon and beast when we’re in a spiritual war

“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[justbyfaith]

The Antichrist will overcome the saints, correct?

Yet, Jesus said that the gates of hell will never prevail against His church.

If the saints that will be overcome by the Antichrist are the church, then Jesus lied when He said that.

 

[justbyfaith]

No.

Here is satan giving the church great tribulation:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

***

 

[ewq1938]

The Antichrist will overcome the saints, correct?

Yet, Jesus said that the gates of hell will never prevail against His church.

If the saints that will be overcome by the Antichrist are the church, then Jesus lied when He said that.

No, the two are completely different. It's a fact that the Antichrist will overcome the saints:

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

This is not the gates of hell prevailing upon church. This is an unfortunate necessity like the torture and death of Christ, or any of deaths of the disciples and other Christians.

 

[DavidTree]

The Antichrist will overcome the saints, correct?

Yet, Jesus said that the gates of hell will never prevail against His church.

If the saints that will be overcome by the Antichrist are the church, then Jesus lied when He said that.

FALSE Conclusion through misapplication of Scripture.

The Gates of Hell are spiritual and eternal death = destined for the Lake of Fire = Revelation 20:11-17

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The Saints being persecuted by the Antichrist is only a physical death. = Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 7:21 and Matthew 10:28

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

The rapture cannot happen any time after the seventh trumpet; for this is what is written about the seventh trumpet.

Rev 11:15, And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16, And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18, And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Rev 11:19, And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The saints are judged for reward at the time of the seventh trumpet; so if they were to be raptured any time after the seventh trumpet, it would seem that they miss out on their reward.

It should be clear, also, that the mark, number, and name of the Beast occurs after this event, in Revelation 13 and 14.

. . .
Greetings, @justbyfaith

Here in verse 18, the time has come and the Day of the Lord (the Day of Vengeance) has finally arrived.

Rev. 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Okay, so let the nations be angry all they want; they will still bow their knees to the King of kings and Lord of lords at His second coming at the 7th trump. . . . And there shall be a judgment as the First Resurrection takes place and the faithful servants of the Most High will receive eternal life and a double portion of the blessings and rewards.

[19] And the Temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His Temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The Temple of God is opened and He who sits at the right hand of the Father shall come forth to execute judgment upon all nations. We can read further details of this judgment in chapter 16 (7th Vial).

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

. . .

The First Resurrection takes place at the 7th trump “in the twinkling of an eye.”

Revelation 20:6

6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The Antichrist will overcome the saints, correct?

Yet, Jesus said that the gates of hell will never prevail against His church.

If the saints that will be overcome by the Antichrist are the church, then Jesus lied when He said that.

Jesus was killed but hell did not prevail against him.
The Bible gives us the eternal plan. Not the plan for this life alone.

You have to see things how God sees them. Take the whole council of scripture.
Jesus didn't lie. Most of the worldwide church through the last 2000 years has been persecuted and many of
them were/are slain for their faith. That doesn't mean hell has prevailed against the church.
The church doesn't go to hell. She will be raised victorious just as her founder was.


Mankind is broadly speaking, like chaff on the wind. Our mortal lives are fleeting.

Job 14:1-2 (CSB)
Anyone born of woman is short of days and full of trouble.
He blossoms like a flower, then withers; he flees like a shadow and does not last.

But the saints who are killed are overcomers.

Rev 12:11 (CSB)
They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony;
for they did not love their lives to the point of death.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I would venture to say that, saying "the GATES of hell / hades" is not the same thing as saying "hell / hades" itself.

The "GATES" of something typically means the "power or authority" of something... exercising / exerting its power or authority toward / against something else (in this case which some posters are referring to, it's directed against "the saints"--Dan7:20-25 & Rev13:5-7,1 [same exerting entity in both passages])




BLB on the word "hell / hades" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g86/kjv/tr/0-1/

 

[DavidTree]

I would venture to say that, saying "the GATES of hell / hades" is not the same thing as saying "hell / hades" itself.

The "GATES" of something typically means the "power or authority" of something... exercising / exerting its power or authority toward / against something else (in this case which some posters are referring to, it's directed against "the saints"--Dan7:20-25 & Rev13:5-7,1 [same exerting entity in both passages])




BLB on the word "hell / hades" - https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g86/kjv/tr/0-1/

This is a classic LOL x100

Yeah, our Lord is just kidding around - no worry everyone, it's just the Gates and not hell/hades itself - you can hang around outside until the doors open..............LOL x100
Boy has your mind turned to mush.

Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?

 

[justbyfaith]

It says in Proverbs 12:21 that no evil shall happen to the just; Jesus being the exception to that rule since He died for our sins.

 

[DavidTree]

It says in Proverbs 12:21 that no evil shall happen to the just; Jesus being the exception to that rule since He died for our sins.

Define for us evil as you see it in Proverbs 12:21

 

[justbyfaith]

Define for us evil as you see it in Proverbs 12:21

Same definition as in Matthew 6:13, Romans 15:30-31, 2 Thessalonians 3:2-3.

 

[DavidTree]

Same definition as in Matthew 6:13, Romans 15:30-31, 2 Thessalonians 3:2-3.

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

What went wrong? Did our Lord forsake us here? Is this evil from God or from evil men?

 

[justbyfaith]

And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows.
“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake.

What went wrong? Did our Lord forsake us here? Is this evil from God or from evil men?

What went wrong is that prayer was lacking; and therefore a doorway was opened to the enemy for him to be able to persecute those who believe in Christ.

However, in Matthew 6:13, Romans 15:30-31, and in 2 Thessalonians 3:2-3, the believer is definitely delivered from evil as the result of prayer.

 

[DavidTree]

What went wrong is that prayer was lacking; and therefore a doorway was opened to the enemy for him to be able to persecute those who believe in Christ.

However, in Matthew 6:13, Romans 15:30-31, and in 2 Thessalonians 3:2-3, the believer is definitely delivered from evil as the result of prayer.

Keep reading and praying - you have a lot to learn and understand.

What is your affiliation, religion, church or other?

 

[ewq1938]

It says in Proverbs 12:21 that no evil shall happen to the just

Unless they don't pray correctly and then evil will happen to the just...according to you.

 

[rayzor]

Unless they don't pray correctly and then evil will happen to the just...according to you.

The kingdom of God suffers violence and the violent take it by force.You might conclude therefore that the kingdom of god is not just.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, what do we do?

Strike Proverbs 11:21 out of our Bibles?