The second coming of Christ

[Ahwatukee]

Yes it is beneficial .
Let me ask you this. Do you believe those Christians who have died have the ability to improve themselves in the eyes of God?

In answer to that, I would say that once those in Christ die and their spirits depart to be in the presence of the Lord, I would assume that they no longer have their sinful nature and are looking forward to the resurrection. When resurrection takes place, they will be raise immortal and glorified. I believe that once we are in our immortal and glorified bodies that God will endow upon us great knowledge and heavenly abilities. Although I suppose that there could be ability to improve. Nothing is really said regarding this.

Also if it is possible (not saying that it is not) that I as Christian will be subjected to 7 years tribulation, how is that(for lack of a better word) fair ? Those who have died get to lay back in whatever state they exist while I am subjected to 7 years( if I am a pretribulationest) of trial. Why do I have to suffer this event? This question is perpetual . Pre, mid, or post. Why me, why my children, why, my grandchildren?

I do know that when young Christians, hear preachers, expounding on the book of Revelations from the pulpit they become afraid. All of these interactions leave them confused as just where they exist in the midst of all these events. Yes I know they should not but they do.
I cannot begin to tell you about how many of these precious souls have came to me wanting some answers that would give them assurance as to where they stood in the midst of all these things. Once they have heard these Revelation professes its hard to get their minds back to the safety of Gods grace.

Please do not misunderstand I love Revelation, but I have worn out many bibles and still most of the book of Revelation remains a mystery yet to be reveled to me. I still read Revelations praying each time Lord please show me more.

Love you brother.

Good day Perfection,

First, praise God for your dedication to the truth of God's word and to know the book of Revelation. The very first verse in Revelation demonstrates God's desire for us to know end time events and all related information. And regarding Revelation remaining a mystery, I understand because even after 45 years of studying it, I still don't know many things. However, what I do know, I share.

Regarding "being subjected to 7 years of tribulation" you are correct in that, it would not be fair, nor would it be in God's nature to punish the righteous with the wicked.

One of the related issues that I teach on this is that, there is a difference between the trials and tribulations that Jesus said believers would have because of their faith in Him vs. God's coming wrath whose purpose is to fulfill prophecy regarding Israel and to punish a Christ rejecting world.

When a believer is called and responds in faith, that person is credited with righteousness and reconciled to God, i.e. brought back into a right relationship. By grace through faith, God the Father sees the believer with the righteousness of Christ, even though we still have our sinful natures (Christ died for us while we were still sinners). Jesus came and fulfilled the law, satisfying it completely and that on every believers behalf. Therefore, we are no longer under the law. Jesus also took upon himself the wrath of God that all believers deserve because of our sin, satisfying God's wrath completely and therefore God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer. And of course scripture states that "the reward for sin is death" which Jesus also paid on our behalf.

All that being said, while believers are subject to trials and tribulations which come at the hands of men and the powers of darkness, we will not and cannot be subject to God's coming wrath. For if believers were to go through the time of God's wrath, it would be slap in the face to Jesus who already suffered it on our behalf.

I am constantly contending for the truth with people who claim that believers are going to go through God's wrath which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and what plagues the two witnesses bring.

Regarding this, if you will notice, throughout chapters 1 thru 3 the word "ekklesia" translated as "church" is used 19 times. Within those same chapters you will not find the word "hagios" translated as "Saints" used interchangebly with "Church." Likewise, from chapter 4 onward, you never see the word ekklesia/church again, but only the word hagios/saints. The word ekklesia/church mysteriously disappears after being referred to 19 times. Coincidence? No, but it is one of God's breadcrumbs of clues that He leaves us in His word.

In relation to this, in Revelation 4:1, John here's a voice that sounds like a trumpet which was identified as being the Lord's voice in Rev.1:10. That voice that sounds like a trumpet then says, "come up here and I will show you what must take place after this" which is saying, I will show you what must take place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period. I believe Revelation 4:1 to be what I coined as a prophetic allusion to where the church is gathered in the chronological order of Revelation. I believe that this is in fact why we never see the word ekklesia/church again, because John is representing the church being called up in Rev.4:1. You will never see the word church mentioned within the narrative of God's wrath.

How are the hagios/saints? These are introduced in Revelation 7:9-17 who are those in white robes which no man can count from every nation, tribe, people and language, which would make them Gentiles. These are those who will become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath and into the beasts kingdom. The will be on the earth during that time because they will have not believed in Christ prior to the gathering of the church. During that time their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not worship the beast, his image nor receive his mark, will cost the lives of many of them. But they get the victory over him by no loving their lives so much as to shrink away from death while keeping their testimony.

In further support that the church will not be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, Revelation 19:6-8 reveals the bride/church attending the wedding of the Lamb, where she will receive her fine linen, white and clean. Then in Rev.19:14 it reveals the bride/church following the Lord out of heaven to end the age, riding on white horses and wearing her fine linen. In order to attend the wedding of the Lamb and follow the Lord out of heaven, one must already be in heaven, yes? In relation to this, we have Rev.17:14 which is an excerpt of when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age which says:

"They (the beast and ten kings) will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

The "called, chosen and faithful followers" are those who will have previously been resurrected and caught up and who will be following Christ out of heaven.

Regarding God's time of tribulation/wrath, we have a promise from the Lord, which says:

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you out of the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth."

In closing, though we as believers in Christ are subject to trials and tribulations, we will not subject to God's coming wrath or any of His wrath. So, as one in Christ and those of your family in Christ, they do not need to worry about God putting us through His wrath, for it is to be poured out on a Christ rejecting world and not those who belong to Christ.

Blessing to you and yours in Christ!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Using the parable of the wheat and the tares in the Book of Matthew ,who will be taken away and who will remain?
How do we reconcile 1 Th 4:17 with this parable?

1 Thessalonians 4 is all about the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints. The parable of the wheat and tares is just that -- a parable. Its primary emphasis is to show us that while outwardly the saved and the unsaved may appear to be the same (tares are very similar to wheat), God knows the wheat (saints) from the tares (the unsaved). The wheat will be gathered up to Heaven, and the tares will be cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

[JamOn]

I seen this verse used in another post, which I think is out of context, this to me is saying simply the flood took them fast and unexpected, like a thief in the night.

Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I seen this verse used in another post, which I think is out of context, this to me is saying simply the flood took them fast and unexpected, like a thief in the night.

Mat_24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Actually, it says that the flood took them all away, which the "one taken" is being compared to. The key word here being taken/took

Those being taken is referring to those that the angels who collect the weeds/wicked at the end of the age.

"At that time I will tell the harvesters (angels): First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

 

[JamOn]

Actually, it says that the flood took them all away, which the "one taken" is being compared to. The key word here being taken/took

Those being taken is referring to those that the angels who collect the weeds/wicked at the end of the age.

"At that time I will tell the harvesters (angels): First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

Though lots of people say death took my loved one away. you can collect weeds and tie them in bundles and burn them in the same field they got collected and burned thus never really taken away, but wheat being gathered and place in the barn is a exact statement of taking the wheat from the field and placing in a burn.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Though lots of people say death took my loved one away. you can collect weeds and tie them in bundles and burn them in the same field they got collected and burned thus never really taken away, but wheat being gathered and place in the barn is a exact statement of taking the wheat from the field and placing in a burn.

Hey JamOn,

The reference to the weeds being "taken away" is referring to the fact that at the end of the age, the angels will go throughout the entire earth and will collect all of the wicked and "take them" from wherever they, back to Armageddon where they will be killed by the Lord.

So, the reference to the "one taken" is referring to the angels taking the wicked from all corners of the earth and taking them to the vicinity of the Lord. Those who are left are the wheat.

 

[JamOn]

Hey JamOn,

The reference to the weeds being "taken away" is referring to the fact that at the end of the age, the angels will go throughout the entire earth and will collect all of the wicked and "take them" from wherever they, back to Armageddon where they will be killed by the Lord.

So, the reference to the "one taken" is referring to the angels taking the wicked from all corners of the earth and taking them to the vicinity of the Lord. Those who are left are the wheat.

But Matthew doesn’t say taken away just collected and burned? And at the same time of the collection the wheat are place in a barn not left.

 

[Ahwatukee]

But Matthew doesn’t say taken away just collected and burned?

Yes, but it is important to bring all of the scriptures regarding that event together to make a right conclusion. Here are both scriptures:

"No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters (angels): First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’ "
- Matt.13:29-30.

" So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." - Matt.24:39-40

So, in the parable in Matt:24:39-40, we have the Lord saying that at His coming "one will be taken and the other left." Then when we look at the parable in Matt.13:29-31, we see that the harvesters which are figurative for angels, will go throughout the world and collect the weeds and take them back to kill their bodies and their spirits put into Hades. The angels going out to collect the wicked and bring them back is also found in Matt.24:31

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

While it is true that the scripture states that the elect/wheat will be gathered from the four corners of the earth, we know from Matt.13:30 that the angels first collect the weeds and then afterwards the wheat. This is why it is important to look at all of the information regarding the same Biblical subject.

 

[JamOn]

Yes, but it is important to bring all of the scriptures regarding that event together to make a right conclusion. Here are both scriptures:

"No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters (angels): First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’ "
- Matt.13:29-30.

" So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left." - Matt.24:39-40

So, in the parable in Matt:24:39-40, we have the Lord saying that at His coming "one will be taken and the other left." Then when we look at the parable in Matt.13:29-31, we see that the harvesters which are figurative for angels, will go throughout the world and collect the weeds and take them back to kill their bodies and their spirits put into Hades. The angels going out to collect the wicked and bring them back is also found in Matt.24:31

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

While it is true that the scripture states that the elect/wheat will be gathered from the four corners of the earth, we know from Matt.13:30 that the angels first collect the weeds and then afterwards the wheat. This is why it is important to look at all of the information regarding the same Biblical subject.

Well I lean more to the KJV sorry it’s what I think is a better translation of that verse.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

Some bibles have it as then which is like saying gather those then gather them, but in KJV is referring to both.

So the first step is gathering both wheat and tares, is how I read it in the KJV

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well I lean more to the KJV sorry it’s what I think is a better translation of that verse.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

That's what I am saying! It's not just a matter of that one scripture, but a combination of other scripture which list information about the same event. For example, Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of Jesus returning to the earth to end the age. It states that the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. And that the birds that are gathered there eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” So, who are those people "the free and slave, great and small" that the birds will be eating? We know that the scripture states that the kings and their military were drawn there by those demonic beings, but how'd all those other people get there?

Also, since the wicked will be scattered through the entire earth, how do you think they get back to where the Lord is? The answer is, because those angels will go throughout entire world and collect (one taken) the wicked and will bring them back to be killed. Their bodies are killed by the double-edged sword and their spirits are what is thrown into the furnace (Hades) to be burned.

So the first step is gathering both wheat and tares, is how I read it in the KJV

But the scripture does not agree that both the wheat and the tares are gathered at the same time. Here's the scripture:

"So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’

It's very important to consult all of the related scriptures is all that I am saying. By doing so it gives you a detailed account of the event.

 

[JamOn]

That's what I am saying! It's not just a matter of that one scripture, but a combination of other scripture which list information about the same event. For example, Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of Jesus returning to the earth to end the age. It states that the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. And that the birds that are gathered there eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.” So, who are those people "the free and slave, great and small" that the birds will be eating? We know that the scripture states that the kings and their military were drawn there by those demonic beings, but how'd all those other people get there?

Also, since the wicked will be scattered through the entire earth, how do you think they get back to where the Lord is? The answer is, because those angels will go throughout entire world and collect (one taken) the wicked and will bring them back to be killed. Their bodies are killed by the double-edged sword and their spirits are what is thrown into the furnace (Hades) to be burned.



But the scripture does not agree that both the wheat and the tares are gathered at the same time. Here's the scripture:

"So the servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’

It's very important to consult all of the related scriptures is all that I am saying. By doing so it gives you a detailed account of the event.

As I mentioned the KJV has it as “but” not “then” so imo it implys a duel gathering but place the wheat into the barn. I don’t know the Bible translation your using but it’s not what is in the KJV.

the verse could of said gather the wheat and place them in the barn then burn the tares but why I think it’s mentioned the other way around is of importance of not being a tare for the tares will be burned.

 

[JamOn]

Harvest is single event. I think it’s in the noun sense.

Verb: harvest haa(r)-vist

1. Gather, as of natural products
   "harvest the grapes";
   - reap, glean
   
2. Remove from a culture or a living or dead body, as for the purposes of transplantation
   "The Chinese are said to harvest organs from executed criminals"

Noun: harvest haa(r)-vist

1. The yield from plants in a single growing season
   - crop
   
2. The consequence of an effort or activity
   "they gathered a harvest of examples"; "a harvest of love"
   
3. The gathering of a ripened crop
   - harvesting, harvest home
   
4. The season for gathering crops
   - harvest time

 

[Absolutely]

The burning of the weeds is in reference to what happens to them after they are killed, where their spirits are cast into the furnace, i.e. Hades. It does not negate the fact that their bodies are killed by the Lord by that double-edged sword. Both scriptures need to be taken into consideration. When the angels first collect the weeds, they take them to the area where all of those kings, generals and all their armies will be amassed and then the following happens to them:

"And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse. "

Once their bodies are killed with that double-edged sword, then their spirits are thrown into the furnace.



This is what the scripture says:

"so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of all men slave and free, small and great.

The first part of the verse is referring to those kings and their armies and the last part of the verse is including all men, which would include those who will have been taken there by the angels.

The scriptures that I provided regarding the parable of the "one taken," and "the wheat and the weeds" are all referring to the end of the age. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. So all of these scriptures are speaking about the same event.

The fact is that at the end of the age, the angels will be sent out and will first collect the weeds/wicked, where after their bodies have been killed, then their spirits will be thrown into the furnace (Hades). But first their bodies will be killed by that double-edged sword.



No, it is not a peacetime setting. As I made clear in my post, the "one taken" group is being compared to those who were taken in the flood, which would mean that the comparison is wicked to wicked.

Also, based on the level of sin and evil in the world today, do you really think that 50% of the world is going to be raptured? The reference to two men being in the field and one being taken and the other left, would infer that 50% would be caught up.

This scripture of "one taken" has been misinterpreted by many. I told you what Jesus meant when He said, "Wherever the carcass is, there the vultures will gather," which is referring to the gathering of those birds as Jesus is descending to the earth to end the age, who eat the flesh of those who will have been killed by that double-edged.

One taken = the wicked, those will have worshiped the beast, his image and received his mark and who, at the end of the age, will be taken by the angels to be killed by the double-edged sword which proceeds from the Lord's mouth. Then their spirits are cast into the furnace (Hades).

One Left = The great tribulation saints who will make it alive through the entire tribulation period and who will enter into the millennial kingdom to repopulate the earth, along with Israel



That wheat is being gathered first in Matt.3:11 is not true. Below is the scripture:

"His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”

So the order is 1). clear His threshing floor which is referring to the wicked and then 2). gather His wheat into the barn. It's the same order as the parable in the parable in Matt.13 where the harvesters/angels FIRST gather the weeds and then gather the wheat into the barn.

There is no way that the "one taken" is referring to the rapture of the church.

However, you are of course free to believe that if you desire.

"The scriptures that I provided regarding the parable of the "one taken," and "the wheat and the weeds" are all referring to the end of the age. Rev.19:11-21 is a detailed account of when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. So all of these scriptures are speaking about the same event. "
So problematic as i showed you
Just does NOT fit
1)the "one taken" dynamic is peacetime. You are making it "fit" into a destroyed planet,ultimate earth destruction and you got 2 men grinding in a mill.
Really?
No way does it fit.
Clear your mind and re read it
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

He frames the one taken in the SAME BREATH as the rapture.
You remove it from context.

Now the wheat

You have been shown the tares are burned. They are cast into the lof.
You ignore that and place them as a post trib pre mil incorrect harvest.
You think there is a harvest post trib,pre mil.
There is none.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

So problematic as i showed you
Just does NOT fit
1)the "one taken" dynamic is peacetime. You are making it "fit" into a destroyed planet,ultimate earth destruction and you got 2 men grinding in a mill.
Really?
No way does it fit.
Clear your mind and re read it

Where do you see the following context "fitting" in? [note parallels of Matt24:36-51 and Mk13:32-37]

Luke 12:35-48 -

35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; 36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat [same as the G347 of Matt8:11 and parallel re: the earthly MK], and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch [all watches "IN THE NIGHT" [<--the DOTL-trib portion (7-yrs)] ], and find them so, blessed are those servants. [this parallels the "BLESSED" of Dan12:12 "BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"--the context being 2nd Coming to the earth, FOR the commencement of the earthly MK age]

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come [see Rev16:15-16, context: Armageddon time-slot], he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. [ALL "Son of man cometh/coming/shall come" passages refer to His Second Coming to the earth FOR the MK age, designation (to judge/govern and to reign)]

41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward [see Dan12:1-4,10, context: 2nd half of trib ("WISE")], whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant [see again Dan12:12's "BLESSED"], whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

This is parallel to the other passages... and here states "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" (that is, as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom... not to MARRY these, though some here be "saints" ["faithful and wise"])

He frames the one taken in the SAME BREATH as the rapture.
You remove it from context.

Neither statement [per context] refers to our Rapture, but of the context of His Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom.

Now the wheat
You have been shown the tares are burned. They are cast into the lof.
You ignore that and place them as a post trib pre mil incorrect harvest.
You think there is a harvest post trib,pre mil.
There is none.

It says, "the FURNACE OF the fire," and we also see another passage that speaks of "tormented in this flame" at a point in time when his brothers are still alive/living and still have "TIME" to change their eternal destination location. IOW, this is not the GWTj context (<--the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] ; but instead the FIRST of the TWO... which is then separated by the "time period" before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words take place at the GWTj time frame)

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

EDIT: IOW, this is not the GWTj context (<--the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23] ; but instead the FIRST of the TWO [parallel time-wise with Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:5]... which is then separated by the "time period" before the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words take place at the GWTj time frame)

 

[JamOn]

To say the tares are gathered and taken to Armageddon to be killed than another gathering of wheat would
Contradict Matthew 25, all naitions and people will be gathered together.

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[Ahwatukee]

To say the tares are gathered and taken to Armageddon to be killed than another gathering of wheat would Contradict Matthew 25, all naitions and people will be gathered together.

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

"Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

Weeds = First gather the weeds

Wheat = Then gather them into my barn

Nothing difficult about this. When we take Matt.13:24-30, 24:30-31 and Rev.19:11-21 which are all referring to Jesus' return to end the age, the angels will go throughout the earth and "First" collect the weeds/wicked and will then "take" them back to the area of Armageddon to be killed. These are the "one taken" group. After that, the angels will go throughout the earth and collect those who were left, which are the wheat.

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The information above does not negate the wicked being killed with the double-edged sword and their spirits being thrown into the furnace. As an example of bringing all of the scriptures together and getting different details, consider the following:

==============================================
"Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming" - 2 Thess.2:8

"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. - Rev.19:20
==============================================

Both scriptures above reveal what is going to happen to the beast when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. 2 Thessalonian says that "the lawless one" (which is another title for the beast), will brought to his end by the breath of the Lord's mouth. Where Rev.19:20 states that he will be captured and thrown into the lake of fire. Neither scripture contradicts one another, but just adds more detail. It is the same with your reference to "all nations being gathered together," for it does not state in what order they are gathered together or that they are all gathered at the same time. That all nations are gathered together is just the end result from the angels gathering both groups.

Therefore, we know from Matt.13:29-30 that it specifically states that the harvesters/angels will "first collect the weeds." These are the "ones taken." So, we should not disregard any information, but look at all of the scriptures regarding the end of the age in order to get a complete picture. Below are some of the many characteristics of the end of the age:

* Jesus descends from heaven to the earth on a white horse to end the age with power and glory - Matt.24:30 Rev.19:11-15

* The bride/church follows the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses - Rev.19:14

* Angels gather the wicked first - Matt.13:30

* Angels gather the wheat after they gather the wicked - Matt.24:31

* An angel calls all the birds of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God - Luke 17:37, Rev.19:17-18

* The beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire - 2 Thess.2:8, Rev.19:20

* All the kings, generals, mighty men, horses and all the wicked who will have been brought there will be killed by the double-edged sword - Rev.19:15, 21

* Satan seized and thrown into and locked up in the Abyss for a thousand years

* the nations beating their swords into plowshares spears into pruning hooks and nation not training for war anymore

* Jesus' feet touching down on the mount of Olives and splitting it in half

* Jesus coming from Edom, from Bozrah with crimson-stained garments?

All that I listed above are just a few of the scriptures relating to Jesus' return to end the age and there are many more. We have to take all of the scriptures into consideration regarding any given event in order to get a clearer picture and not just grab one or two scriptures and say these contradict each other.

 

[JamOn]

"Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.’”

Weeds = First gather the weeds

Wheat = Then gather them into my barn

Nothing difficult about this. When we take Matt.13:24-30, 24:30-31 and Rev.19:11-21 which are all referring to Jesus' return to end the age, the angels will go throughout the earth and "First" collect the weeds/wicked and will then "take" them back to the area of Armageddon to be killed. These are the "one taken" group. After that, the angels will go throughout the earth and collect those who were left, which are the wheat.



The information above does not negate the wicked being killed with the double-edged sword and their spirits being thrown into the furnace. As an example of bringing all of the scriptures together and getting different details, consider the following:

==============================================
"Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming" - 2 Thess.2:8

"But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. - Rev.19:20
==============================================

Both scriptures above reveal what is going to happen to the beast when Jesus returns to the earth to end the age. 2 Thessalonian says that "the lawless one" (which is another title for the beast), will brought to his end by the breath of the Lord's mouth. Where Rev.19:20 states that he will be captured and thrown into the lake of fire. Neither scripture contradicts one another, but just adds more detail. It is the same with your reference to "all nations being gathered together," for it does not state in what order they are gathered together or that they are all gathered at the same time. That all nations are gathered together is just the end result from the angels gathering both groups.

Therefore, we know from Matt.13:29-30 that it specifically states that the harvesters/angels will "first collect the weeds." These are the "ones taken." So, we should not disregard any information, but look at all of the scriptures regarding the end of the age in order to get a complete picture. Below are some of the many characteristics of the end of the age:

* Jesus descends from heaven to the earth on a white horse to end the age with power and glory - Matt.24:30 Rev.19:11-15

* The bride/church follows the Lord out of heaven riding on white horses - Rev.19:14

* Angels gather the wicked first - Matt.13:30

* Angels gather the wheat after they gather the wicked - Matt.24:31

* An angel calls all the birds of the air to come and gather themselves to the great supper of God - Luke 17:37, Rev.19:17-18

* The beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire - 2 Thess.2:8, Rev.19:20

* All the kings, generals, mighty men, horses and all the wicked who will have been brought there will be killed by the double-edged sword - Rev.19:15, 21

* Satan seized and thrown into and locked up in the Abyss for a thousand years

* the nations beating their swords into plowshares spears into pruning hooks and nation not training for war anymore

* Jesus' feet touching down on the mount of Olives and splitting it in half

* Jesus coming from Edom, from Bozrah with crimson-stained garments?

All that I listed above are just a few of the scriptures relating to Jesus' return to end the age and there are many more. We have to take all of the scriptures into consideration regarding any given event in order to get a clearer picture and not just grab one or two scriptures and say these contradict each other.

Matthew 25
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

And that matches the parable of net, all the fish are gathered in the net then divided,

Matthew 13
47Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the men pulled it ashore. Then they sat down and sorted the good fish into containers, but threw the bad away.

49So will it be at the end of the age: The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous, 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

51Have you understood all these things?”

 

[KJV1611]

Matthew 25
31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

And that matches the parable of net, all the fish are gathered in the net then divided,

Matthew 13
47Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was cast into the sea and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the men pulled it ashore. Then they sat down and sorted the good fish into containers, but threw the bad away.

49So will it be at the end of the age: The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous, 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

51Have you understood all these things?”

That should be the knock out punch but I'll bet my life savings it wont be.

 

[JamOn]

That should be the knock out punch but I'll bet my life savings it wont be.

I’ve notice some bibles that change just the smallest of words, like but to then can changes the whole concept. Unfortunately that change did just that.