The Sin of Pacifism

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kennethcadwell

Guest
Why would God have someone there to do something He told them not to do?
God would not tell somebody to just stand there and not help protect a innocent person from being attacked.
He would tell you to defend them, and if in defending them the attacker put you in a position that it came down to your life and the one your defending or the attackers life. Then the Lord will not hold it against you for doing that, but in case you are continuous about this pray for forgiveness when that happens about having to take that life.

Now I am not saying that should be your first intention to take his life in defending yours and others, for it should not be.
Like I said if you can stop the attack without taking life, then that is how you go about doing it. I for one am one who will pray for forgiveness for having to take that life if left with no other option, for I will feel sorry for him that he gave me no choice.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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​I see Ella85 was right about leaving for a few days and coming back to the same old debacle still going around and around!! LOL!! :)
So you don't believe standing behind what Scripture teaches or that it is not important to discuss the Word of God?
 
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elf3

Guest
This forum is a never ending circle
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Live your convictions bro. Just make sure that if you ever plan to marry, let the girl know there is a point you won't cross to protect her against an attacker. My wife knows I have no bounds.
It's like I am speaking but nobody is hearing the words that are coming out of my mouth. You can stop people without using deadly force or with the intent to harm them.
 
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kennethcadwell

Guest
You don't seem to understand. Prayer is probably one of the believer's most powerful weapons at his disposal. However, by the way you are talking about prayer: It gives me the strong impression that you don't think God will answer your prayer in times of trouble; But I do.

Also, I would go by the leading of the Spirit on the situation because not every situation is cut and dry. For example: The person being attacked could be on the other side of a river or I could realize that by me moving, my attackers would just shoot me in the head. Prayer is the answer in these cases, my friend. For prayer is not ineffectual as you think. Our God is not a powerless God. He answers prayer. For Hezekiah prayed so as to be protected against an invading army that would have easily destroyed them unless God intervened to destroy them; And He did destroy Hezekiah's invading army. The Messenger of the Lord destroyed that army!



That is just silly. That would be like the Lord telling me to do something that is contrary to His Word. It's not possible. If I did receive such a communication, I would ask that entity to confess that Jesus is Lord and that Jesus is God Almighty in the flesh. In addition, God would have to open my eyes to those Scriptures in the New Testament that talk about how physical violence would be justified in relation to loving my enemy and not render evil for evil. But I know no such verse exists that would refute what the Lord taught us about overcoming evil with good. Killing your enemy in self defense is not overcoming evil with good.
What I asked is not contrary to His word. Self defense or protection is not rendering evil for evil, it is an attempt to stop and evil act. If you stop a person from committing a evil/horrible act even in using physical force you are actually showing that love for them, by helping them to not continue and complete that terrible act they are starting to do. In turn this gives them a lesser charge in the court system, and a chance to be ministered to so that you can try and get them to come to the truth in our Lord.

The Lord our God works through us, you can see plenty of examples in the bible where He did not do it by Himself. He worked through others to fulfill His will, and stop evil acts from happening. Prayer is a powerful weapon, and like I said sometimes that answer He gives is that is why He put you there at that moment. To stop the attack.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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This forum is a never ending circle
If one believer were to read this thread and realize that our protection is in God and not fists or guns, then it will all be worth it because without faith in God, it is impossible to please Him. Trusting in your fists or a gun (Which runs contrary to Jesus' commands) is not faith in God but it is faith in yourself.
 
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It's like I am speaking but nobody is hearing the words that are coming out of my mouth. You can stop people without using deadly force or with the intent to harm them.
That's true bro, but sometimes you can't stop someone without using deadly force. Let any prospective wife know if it ever comes to having to kill someone who is harming her, you'll let her attacker live and let her die. Ok?
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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So you don't believe standing behind what Scripture teaches or that it is not important to discuss the Word of God?
Of course I do, but it baffles me how some of you think defending another person automatically has to mean killing them!! Lethal force is NOT always necessary--what part of that don't you understand? God does not intend for us to stand idly by and watch another being harmed or abused. It appalls me that jdbear would rather watch his wife get raped, rather than step in and defend her. However, that's his view to take, and no offense to him, but it shocks me that her knowing he would not defend her, she still agreed to marry him anyway!! Just sayin'....


 
Jul 22, 2014
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That's true bro, but sometimes you can't stop someone without using deadly force. Let any prospective wife know if it ever comes to having to kill someone who is harming her, you'll let her attacker live and let her die. Ok?
I don't live in fear like that. God is my protection; And nothing in this life can't happen without God's approval. For do you think Job beat himself up in thinking of ways to protect his children better when they died?
 

gzusfrk

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2013
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Of course I do, but it baffles me how some of you think defending another person automatically has to mean killing them!! Lethal force is NOT always necessary--what part of that don't you understand? God does not intend for us to stand idly by and watch another being harmed or abused. It appalls me that jdbear would rather watch his wife get raped, rather than step in and defend her. However, that's his view to take, and no offense to him, but it shocks me that her knowing he would not defend her, she still agreed to marry him anyway!! Just sayin'....

I think you misunderstood what jd said
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Of course I do, but it baffles me how some of you think defending another person automatically has to mean killing them!! Lethal force is NOT always necessary--what part of that don't you understand? God does not intend for us to stand idly by and watch another being harmed or abused. It appalls me that jdbear would rather watch his wife get raped, rather than step in and defend her. However, that's his view to take, and no offense to him, but it shocks me that her knowing he would not defend her, she still agreed to marry him anyway!! Just sayin'....


I will repeat it again,

I do not believe in doing nothing or just standing by.

I would take action to protect anyone in harm but I would not use lethal force or violent means.

Oh, and I am arguing against those here who DO BELIEVE in using lethal force to stop someone.
 

gzusfrk

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2013
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I don't live in fear like that. God is my protection; And nothing in this life can't happen without God's approval. For do you think Job beat himself up in thinking of ways to protect his children better when they died?
It seems you misunderstand, or I misunderstand when you say nothing can happen without Gods approval. God does not approve of people cheating on their spouse , or the killing of innocent people. God does not approve of a lot of things that happen on this world, He allows it, there is a difference
 

blue_ladybug

Senior Member
Feb 21, 2014
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Of course I do, but it baffles me how some of you think defending another person automatically has to mean killing them!! Lethal force is NOT always necessary--what part of that don't you understand? God does not intend for us to stand idly by and watch another being harmed or abused. It appalls me that jdbear would rather watch his wife get raped, rather than step in and defend her. However, that's his view to take, and no offense to him, but it shocks me that her knowing he would not defend her, she still agreed to marry him anyway!! Just sayin'....

I think you misunderstood what jd said
quote by jdbear:I asked my wife if, before we were married, she knew that I was a pacifist and would'nt protect her from a rapist with any means possible, would she still marry me...and she said no, because God wants husband's to love their wives more than rapists. So if you're a pacifist and engaged to be married, ask questions before paying the caterer.


He plainly stated here that he would NOT defend her with ANY possible means.. even non-lethal ones..
 

gzusfrk

Senior Member
Aug 4, 2013
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quote by jdbear:I asked my wife if, before we were married, she knew that I was a pacifist and would'nt protect her from a rapist with any means possible, would she still marry me...and she said no, because God wants husband's to love their wives more than rapists. So if you're a pacifist and engaged to be married, ask questions before paying the caterer.


He plainly stated here that he would NOT defend her with ANY possible means.. even non-lethal ones..
I think he was being facetious. At least I hope so.
 
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I don't live in fear like that. God is my protection; And nothing in this life can't happen without God's approval. For do you think Job beat himself up in thinking of ways to protect his children better when they died?
Not much you can do against a tornado, but have you noticed you're avoiding my counsel at every turn? Get real with a prospective mate. Make sure you let any girlfriend know if you had to kill to protect her you wouldn't do it. Ok? And plan on being single for the rest of your life. Also, Abraham knew Jesus and made hamburger out of those who kidnapped Lot.
 
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Of course I do, but it baffles me how some of you think defending another person automatically has to mean killing them!! Lethal force is NOT always necessary--what part of that don't you understand? God does not intend for us to stand idly by and watch another being harmed or abused. It appalls me that jdbear would rather watch his wife get raped, rather than step in and defend her. However, that's his view to take, and no offense to him, but it shocks me that her knowing he would not defend her, she still agreed to marry him anyway!! Just sayin'....


You completely misread my post dear. :)
 
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elf3

Guest
If one believer were to read this thread and realize that our protection is in God and not fists or guns, then it will all be worth it because without faith in God, it is impossible to please Him. Trusting in your fists or a gun (Which runs contrary to Jesus' commands) is not faith in God but it is faith in yourself.
Funny because I have already explained my faith in God TWICE but seems you either ignored what said or just didn't read my post (TWICE).

I think I have actually said this more than twice but just for you Jason I'll say it again....not every situation would need lethal force but if needed I sure would use it to save someone.

Boy I hope you actually read this.
 
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Ecclesiastik

Guest
I really can't peg it down to a specific time. But it was some time after I renewed my faith in 2010 when I began to dig deep into studying the Word of God. I voiced my opinions on the topic vocally online for the first time in 2013. It is at this time, that I did even more study.
I've always had thoughts that leaned towards pacifism but they never really came into fruition until I joined the military because I agreed with those around me that although the Bible seems to point to it, it just can't be true because it doesn't match with what the flesh wants....and it's just too impractical.

About two years after I joined the military I had a good idea about the philosophies that are running around here but since I am only in one branch, I started to dig further. I started to talk to infantry guys, vets, and other Christians to see their thoughts on the military. Actually I started a thread on here not too long ago on the subject. The most learned man on the subject on that thread was a pacifist and nobody could debunk his points.

At that point, I was persuaded but I kept digging. I started bringing up his point to other people and examining them myself to see if they checked out. They did and others could not debunk the points that were brought up either (which were historical and biblical).

Furthermore, I started examining the involvement of different Christians of different nations in war (Nazi Germany, China, Palestine vs Israel). I realized further that it didn't make sense. I realized that many Christians had their own ideas about the boundaries in violence and war but they seemed to be contrived. Because no one wanted to come to Christ's standard, most were in a state of compromise in which they made up their own standard of when it is right and when it is wrong to proceed with violence (i.e. if it is a "just" war, if someone else is threatened but not me, if it is not persecution for being a Christian). I realized that these standards do not come from the Bible but from man and from culture.

There are several other things I studied, such as the early church's view on war as well but all these things only contributed towards a negation of the supposed biblical command to defend the innocent with violent means.

My point though is that although I cannot I say I was completely unbiased, at this point I was willing to do whatever the Lord was speaking into my heart. So if someone had presented evidence that tore up my argument or called it into question, I truly would have considered what they were saying and likely would have chosen to stay in the military as a light to those around me.

Many cannot say that they will do whatever it takes if shown, via Scripture and history, that their current philosophy is moot. They will stick to the same course they always have because it is easiest and doesn't conflict with the culture around them. Trusting God is hard, especially when you are living in sin. For example, ask a lukewarm Christian to sell all their stuff and move to Egypt and preach the Gospel. Even if God came down in a pillar of fire and did this, he would probably convince himself that it couldn't have been God because God would want him to do etc. etc. good things that cannot be done if he moves to Egypt or if he sells all his stuff.

I'm not saying everyone who isn't a pacifist is living in sin but we all should be questioning our own motives and what if there is something that isn't entirely pure behind our motives to not change our views.
 
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Whoops...wrong person.
 
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It seems you misunderstand, or I misunderstand when you say nothing can happen without Gods approval. God does not approve of people cheating on their spouse , or the killing of innocent people. God does not approve of a lot of things that happen on this world, He allows it, there is a difference
When I say God must "approve" it is not talking about morality. For God approved of Job to be tested by Satan. Satan could not do anything to Job without God's approval.
 
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