"The Soul That Sinneth, It SHALL Die."

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Rondonmon

Senior Member
#261
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
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#261
Phoneman-777 said:
I know, the whole "sin is a condition, not a choice" debate, which conclusion is "since I had nothing to do with winding up in this situation, I have nothing to do with getting out of it."

I assure you that "sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4 KJV) so babies may be born "in sin" -- with the propensity to sin -- but until you knowingly break the law, you're not guilty of sin, right?

Even if it is argued that babies sin ignorantly, does not God "wink" (Acts 17:30 KJV) at that kind of sin?
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We are under grace. The Law was given to expose our sins, but it was only given 430 years AFTER the Promise.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

When Satan sinned the original sin, there was no laws laid down, nor a need for them.

The Law is meaningless, we are justified by faith alone.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#262
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#262
throughfaith said:
If the bible really did say forever meaning never ending, how should it have said it ?
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According to Strong's, Vine's and any honest scholar, the Greek "AIONIOS" which means "forever" is defined as:

"Duration: either undefined but NOT endless - OR - undefined because endless."

In other words, "we don't know how long, but it's going to end" - OR - "we don't know how long because it's never going to end." So, how do we decide which and when?

Honest scholars, even those who disagree with me, will admit that when "Aionios" or "Olam" in the OT is used in the Bible, occasions when it applies to God generally means "eternity" while when applied to man generally means "all the days of life".

That's why when we read, "The works of His hands are verity and judgment. All His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness", we know that the commandments God wrote with His finger in stone will always exist for eternity, obviously, because it's never gonna be OK to break them.

But, when we read in the Law of Moses that a slave who elects to voluntarily remain with his master "shall remain his slave forever", we know full well he's not going to be rickshawing his master down the streets of gold...it means "all the days of life."
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#263
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#263
Phoneman-777 said:
According to Strong's, Vine's and any honest scholar, the Greek "AIONIOS" which means "forever" is defined as:

"Duration: either undefined but NOT endless - OR - undefined because endless."

In other words, "we don't know how long, but it's going to end" - OR - "we don't know how long because it's never going to end." So, how do we decide which and when?

Honest scholars, even those who disagree with me, will admit that when "Aionios" or "Olam" in the OT is used in the Bible, occasions when it applies to God generally means "eternity" while when applied to man generally means "all the days of life".

That's why when we read, "The works of His hands are verity and judgment. All His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness", we know that the commandments God wrote with His finger in stone will always exist for eternity, obviously, because it's never gonna be OK to break them.

But, when we read in the Law of Moses that a slave who elects to voluntarily remain with his master "shall remain his slave forever", we know full well he's not going to be rickshawing his master down the streets of gold...it means "all the days of life."
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On earth its logical to conclude things will have a limited run .
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#265
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#265
Rondonmon said:
We are under grace. The Law was given to expose our sins, but it was only given 430 years AFTER the Promise.

Gal. 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

When Satan sinned the original sin, there was no laws laid down, nor a need for them.

The Law is meaningless, we are justified by faith alone.
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Actually, that law that came 430 years later was "ADDED until the Seed should come."

If we slow down, we'll not miss that it's talking about the Law of Moses that vanished when Jesus died on the Cross was ADDED to something after the 430...added to WHAT?

The Ten Commandments which existed before then. Cain knew not to kill Abel. Abraham knew not to lie to Pharaoh and King Abimlemech. Rachel knew not to steal her father's idols. Joseph knew not to commit adultery, etc, etc, etc.

That's why the Ten Commandments are enjoined to Christians throughout the NT but the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices ended at the Cross.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#266
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#266
Phoneman-777 said:
Man, your gumbo recipe got NOTHIN on mine! I done forgot more about makin a New Orleans style Gumbo Roux than you'll ever know, cher! :cool: Bet you don't even have any Gumbo File' on the spice rack either. LOL

BTW, Jesus didn't say the fire won't go out...He said it won't be "quenched" -- which means there ain't gonna be no fire angels runnin around with hoses pumping holy water on the flames...but the fire will eventually go out once there's nothing left to burn, 'cause Malachi says we're gonna tread down the ashes of the wicked and Jesus told the angel to tell John that "the former things are gonna pass away, which includes death, sorrow, crying, and pain and Moses said in Deuteronomy that God is going to set the whole thing on fire from the foundations of the mountains on up...so how can Jesus make a new heaven and new Earth if the fire keeps on burning?

I know, brother, but it's such a popular "proof" text that I threw it in there.
Peter says the punishment of the wicked -- which is when they are cast into hellfire -- is future, when he told us that God knows how to "reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." See all that future language there? The wicked are not yet burning in hell, they are dead in the graves awaiting the Resurrection of the Damned. Hellfire commences at the end of time when the wicked surround New Jerusalem and "fire (comes) down out of heaven and (destroys) them all."
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first off it's called File` and yes I do. also known as " sassafras". So you can kiss my `Etouffee. That right Jesus did not say the fire would go out. YOu assumed fire goes out Jesus said the fires would not be quenched and in REV he said the moment was forever. You have to joke about angel and water hoses to mock what you can't explain without interjecting human reasoning.

You do not understand how and Eternal God can make the soul of man eternal IF God can speak through a burning bush that did not burn God can make a soul of man and the devil burn in a fire they will not consume. You limit God. Hell is a supernatural place just as Heaven is. Now in my best Bobby Boucher voice, Jesus is right Momma is wrong! Hell is hot and burns forever.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#267
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#267
Phoneman-777 said:
According to Strong's, Vine's and any honest scholar, the Greek "AIONIOS" which means "forever" is defined as:

"Duration: either undefined but NOT endless - OR - undefined because endless."

In other words, "we don't know how long, but it's going to end" - OR - "we don't know how long because it's never going to end." So, how do we decide which and when?

Honest scholars, even those who disagree with me, will admit that when "Aionios" or "Olam" in the OT is used in the Bible, occasions when it applies to God generally means "eternity" while when applied to man generally means "all the days of life".

That's why when we read, "The works of His hands are verity and judgment. All His commandments are sure, they stand fast forever and ever and are done in truth and uprightness", we know that the commandments God wrote with His finger in stone will always exist for eternity, obviously, because it's never gonna be OK to break them.

But, when we read in the Law of Moses that a slave who elects to voluntarily remain with his master "shall remain his slave forever", we know full well he's not going to be rickshawing his master down the streets of gold...it means "all the days of life."
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Man, why you always gotta throw shade my way wit dem X's? LOL
 
R

Rondonmon

Senior Member
#268
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#268
Phoneman-777 said:
Actually, that law that came 430 years later was "ADDED until the Seed should come."

If we slow down, we'll not miss that it's talking about the Law of Moses that vanished when Jesus died on the Cross was ADDED to something after the 430...added to WHAT?

The Ten Commandments which existed before then. Cain knew not to kill Abel. Abraham knew not to lie to Pharaoh and King Abimlemech. Rachel knew not to steal her father's idols. Joseph knew not to commit adultery, etc, etc, etc.

That's why the Ten Commandments are enjoined to Christians throughout the NT but the Mosaic Law of ceremonies and sacrifices ended at the Cross.
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Read Gal. 3, it will explain it all in detail, the Law avails nothing, its a curse. Jesus took our curse on the cross. We are under FAITH, the original Covenant was THE PROMISE, Abraham was dead by the time the Law was laid down under Moses.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#269
Jul 3, 2015
61,191
30,325
113
#269
Phoneman-777 said:
Man, why you always gotta throw shade my way wit dem X's? LOL
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There's a whole thread now about dem X's, made, no less, by one who claimed they could not care less about them LOL

Do you know, a red X is considered a weapon? :oops:
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#270
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#270
Phoneman-777 said:
What good is it if you're behind me at a toll booth and I pay what you owe, but you tell the dude in the booth, "no thanks, I'll pay it myself"?
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legally he cannot accept a fee that's already paid .
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#272
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#272
CS1 said:
first off it's called File` and yes I do. also known as " sassafras". So you can kiss my `Etouffee.
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:ROFL:
CS1 said:
That right Jesus did not say the fire would go out. YOu assumed fire goes out Jesus said the fires would not be quenched and in REV he said the moment was forever. You have to joke about angel and water hoses to mock what you can't explain without interjecting human reasoning.
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He NEVER said the "fire is not going out", cochese. He said the fire will "not be quenched". You can't extrapolate that to mean "not go out" because "quench" means to put a fire out. It means there'll be no mercy for anyone consigned to the flames - that no one is going to come along and quench it and deliver their behinds from the flames. Malachi says we're gonna tread down the ashes of the wicked, so how we gonna do that if they wicked never turn to ashes but keep on burning and burning, huh huh huh, Chef Emeril? ;)
CS1 said:
You do not understand how and Eternal God can make the soul of man eternal
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Course I do...God grants eternal life to the Soul "who by patience continuance in well doing seeks for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:5-7 KJV). What you need to learn, Chef Ramsay, is that "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
CS1 said:
IF God can speak through a burning bush that did not burn God can make a soul of man and the devil burn in a fire they will not consume.
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Sure he can, Julia Child, but in order for men to be lit on fire from head to toe and burn for all eternity (like what your Gumbo recipe no doubt tastes like) never to be consumed, they must be granted eternal life in them flames, which the wicked is not granted! The wicked suffer eternal death, not eternal life in flames of fire (like when you try to make Andouille sausage)!!!
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#274
May 23, 2012
13,112
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113
#274
Phoneman-777 said:
:ROFL:
He NEVER said the "fire is not going out", cochese. He said the fire will "not be quenched". You can't extrapolate that to mean "not go out" because "quench" means to put a fire out. It means there'll be no mercy for anyone consigned to the flames - that no one is going to come along and quench it and deliver their behinds from the flames. Malachi says we're gonna tread down the ashes of the wicked, so how we gonna do that if they wicked never turn to ashes but keep on burning and burning, huh huh huh, Chef Emeril? ;)
Course I do...God grants eternal life to the Soul "who by patience continuance in well doing seeks for glory, honor, and immortality" (Romans 2:5-7 KJV). What you need to learn, Chef Ramsay, is that "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."
Sure he can, Julia Child, but in order for men to be lit on fire from head to toe and burn for all eternity (like what your Gumbo recipe no doubt tastes like) never to be consumed, they must be granted eternal life in them flames, which the wicked is not granted! The wicked suffer eternal death, not eternal life in flames of fire (like when you try to make Andouille sausage)!!!
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lol hahaha Ok brother, I will concede, because I like ya so much BUT Jesus is right!
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#275
May 23, 2012
13,112
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#275
Phoneman-777 said:
Says who? As sure as I'm born a man, he can take my money and credit it back to my account, can he not?
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you have no money, to begin with. You were born with the debt of Sin.
 
Phoneman-777

Phoneman-777

Banned
#278
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
#278
CS1 said:
you have no money, to begin with. You were born with the debt of Sin.
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That, and I just dropped a new engine in my truck..ya don't wanna know how much that thing costs!
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#279
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#279
Phoneman-777 said:
Says who? As sure as I'm born a man, he can take my money and credit it back to my account, can he not?
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I suppose a' man' can take money even though its already been paid by another . Not very decent though is it?
 
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