"The Soul That Sinneth, It SHALL Die."

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Aug 3, 2019
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If only the righteous are granted eternal life, that means the wicked are not granted eternal life, right or wrong?

"...and ye know no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15 KJV​

So, how can the wicked suffer consciously in agony for all eternity if they aren't going to be alive for all eternity?

We can't argue "it's just the soul that is eternally tormented" because Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly says the Soul is the union of the Body and Breath of Life, and Jesus said the "whole body" will be cast into hellfire. So, if the person who is cast bodily into hellfire doesn't have eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering? The only conclusion that makes sense is that the wicked burn up out of existence aka The Second Death.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,346
113
If only the righteous are granted eternal life, that means the wicked are not granted eternal life, right or wrong?

"...and ye know no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15 KJV​

So, how can the wicked suffer consciously in agony for all eternity if they aren't going to be alive for all eternity?

We can't argue "it's just the soul that is eternally tormented" because Genesis 2:7 KJV plainly says the Soul is the union of the Body and Breath of Life, and Jesus said the "whole body" will be cast into hellfire. So, if the person who is cast bodily into hellfire doesn't have eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering? The only conclusion that makes sense is that the wicked burn up out of existence aka The Second Death.
is that what Jesus said in REV?
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
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is that what Jesus said in REV?
Yep...."and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever".

Forever here refers to either duration "either undefined but not endless" (meaning we don't know how long it is but it's gonna end) because the word is applied to mortal impenitent sinners who are not granted the gift of eternal life....or it can be referring figuratively to "distance" as the smoke rises out of of sight, like when you drive through Texas and see the burn off from the oil wells rising up as far as the eye can see.

It certainly doesn't refer duration "undefined because endless" aka eternal torment, because if no murderer hath eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering?
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,058
4,346
113
Yep...."and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever".

Forever here refers to either duration "either undefined but not endless" (meaning we don't know how long it is but it's gonna end) because the word is applied to mortal impenitent sinners who are not granted the gift of eternal life....or it can be referring figuratively to "distance" as the smoke rises out of of sight, like when you drive through Texas and see the burn off from the oil wells rising up as far as the eye can see.

It certainly doesn't refer duration "undefined because endless" aka eternal torment, because if no murderer hath eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering?
Wrong! Buba
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
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Australia
New age spiritualism teaches that the spirit lives for ever and Satan teaches that the soul that sinneth shall never die.

I choose to follow the Bible that states things plainly.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,932
1,262
113
Australia
Psa 13:3 Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

Joh 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Joh 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Joh 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Joh 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Death is like sleep. We will wake up but will not be conscious of what has happened when asleep. Only Jesus can wake us and some will wake in the first resurrection and some in the second.

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
 
Aug 3, 2019
3,744
507
113
New age spiritualism teaches that the spirit lives for ever and Satan teaches that the soul that sinneth shall never die.

I choose to follow the Bible that states things plainly.

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” What an amazing text which obliterates the idea that wicked souls are immortal.

Genesis 2:7KJV says the Soul comes into existence as a consequence of the union of God’s Breath of Life aka Spirit of Life and the Body. This BOL/SOL is God’s “life-giving principle” which animates all creatures, be they saints, sinners, or members of the animal kingdom, according to texts like Genesis 7:15KJV and Ecclesiastes 3:19-21KJV which says the Spirit returning to God (when a man dies) or sent forth down here (into the nostrils of a beast) is one in the same. THIS MEANS THE SOUL IS THE WHOLE CREATURE COMPRISED OF ITS TWO PARTS, THE BOL/SOL AND THE BODY. Man does not POSSESS a Soul - he IS a Soul; the “I”, the “ego”, the “individual”, the “self”. Sometimes people read “his/her/my soul” and conclude otherwise but “Soul” simply means “life”, not some immortal poltergeist that flies off at death when the evil body-shell releases it upon death -- which is textbook PAGANISM dragged into the church and baptized by the RCC, by which many Catholics and Christians are seduced.

Ecclesiastes 12:7KJV says at death the reverse takes place - God’s Breath of Life aka Spirit of Life returns to God as it was, the Body returns to dust as it was, and this disunion causes the Soul to cease to be...it is the ONLY conclusion which harmonizes all the texts and eliminates the many contradictions which arise with ideas about innate immortality of the Soul.

That’s why Paul put everything on the Resurrection and told us to comfort the bereaved saints with words of that, not fantasy ideas about the dead saints being conscious in Heaven.

If you’d like every question about how death affects man and what is the true reward of the wicked, check out these two indispensable YT vids:

“After Death, Then What?”

“When and Where is Hell?”